The Beauty of Liberalism

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lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
552
12
18
#21
[for me anyway] these great swelling words of vanity are nice sounding, but it is far greater to hearken to what the Lord Jesus Christ tells us (for example) when someone tried to praise Mary, He said: Yea instead blessed are they that hear the Word of God and submit to it and rely upon it.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#22
Quote"We certainly don't want to overabundant someone, or they'll just want more. Much like the conservative party. It's the mentality of our political beliefs, not God's."

No,I don't agree with that,sorry. I believe vets,elderly,poor deserve all the help they need.I have no issue with that and any conservative I know doesnt.What Im against is those playing the system.I attend a small church with mostly older folk and that little church gives more to missions and the poor than churches twice our size.They give locally,they give to needs overseas. Im not against giving in abundance.Im against the govt supporting people from cradle to grave.And God feels the same way,if you don't work you dont deserve to eat.
A thought for you. IF Christians did what we're supposed to do, there would be no need for government supporting people.

I became disabled, so hubby had to take care of my needs. A given, right?

Well, hubby became disabled, and then our family was supposed to take care of our needs. Had they been Christian, I would have reminded them of that.

If our family couldn't take care of our needs (or wouldn't), then the church is supposed to take care of our needs.

I asked. My family did a better job of taking care of us than the church did.

Why? My guess is because "We have government programs for people like you, so you aren't my problem."

Too many think handing someone a fiver on a street corner qualifies as giving. Maybe doling out soup at a soup kitchen once a week or once a month. That's not it. Family takes care of family. We're talking bring your family member home with you, if they've got no home. And, of course, they're supposed to help out in some way -- whichever way they can.

And if your family (the church, not blood relatives) can't, (can't, not won't), then work together to help that person 24/7/365.

You say vets, the elderly and the poor are getting what they need? The only possible way you can believe that is by making sure you never find out if that's true. It's most certainly not true! Want to meet, vets, elderly, and poor? Go visit a VA hospital and get to know the guys sitting in the lobby all day, every day. Go visit the smoking section. Go visit people in their rooms. Find out what happens to them at the end of the day or the end of their time in a hospital. Worse yet, see what's happening to them when they're IN that hospital.

The government is doing as piss poor a job with vets as they are for the rest of the poor. Then again, it was supposed to be our job anyway!
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#24
[for me anyway] these great swelling words of vanity are nice sounding, but it is far greater to hearken to what the Lord Jesus Christ tells us (for example) when someone tried to praise Mary, He said: Yea instead blessed are they that hear the Word of God and submit to it and rely upon it.
Average excuse not to listen.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
4,994
360
83
#25
[for me anyway] these great swelling words of vanity are nice sounding, but it is far greater to hearken to what the Lord Jesus Christ tells us (for example) when someone tried to praise Mary, He said: Yea instead blessed are they that hear the Word of God and submit to it and rely upon it.

???? You sorta lost me there..... what are you referring to?
 
Nov 12, 2015
8,621
587
113
#26
I think I have seen what you're saying Lynn...
I have seen the sheer despair of someone fallen on hard times. It becomes a vicious cycle in which it begins to seem no amount of money can pull them back up. Buy them a car so they can go back and forth to work. Buy them clothes to wear to work. Pay for a babysitter for two weeks until the first check comes. Buy them food for the two weeks. Pay the rent for a month. Car breaks down, pay to have it fixed. Baby gets sick and they get fired because they are at the hospital for two days instead of at work. Rent comes due again and you have no more money to give them so they are kicked out and living in the car you gave them, begging money for gas to keep warm.

It is almost impossible to pull yourself up out of poverty once you have fallen into it.especially if you have no family to go and stay with. Not only would having given them a car not have really helped them, but even all the Hershey's kisses failed to help in the end. This is why I cry when I hear of a whole church committing to help a family get back out of the hole of poverty. They understand that a p&j isn't going to fix it but they take it on anyway.but then I also cry if I see drugs or drinking undo the hard work, time and money they committed to. I've worked myself into a depression and am just babbling uselessly. Sorry. Don't even know what my point was. It's hard to not grow cold and numb to it all.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
12,851
615
113
63
#28
I know we (conservatives) do give more. Just saw another study the other day. And I wonder if that isn't true because Christians tend to be conservative more often than liberal. (Tend, JesusLives, tend. Not making that a blanket statement, and I know it's not ever going to be a given, nor should it be. ;))

But, yeah. I really like the way God gives us way more than we can even consume. And, yeah, somehow, when I think of giving it is always under the "how much do you need" concept. Once I learn the need, it just doesn't dawn on me to give even more than the need.

Because God gives me the whole Thanksgiving Day spread, I'm thinking this reminds me that if I can only afford to give someone else a P & J (peanut butter and jelly sandwich -- in case that's a regionalism), how about at least adding a Hershey Kiss with it too? (Figuratively speaking. I'm not really talking just food.)
Reminds me of a time I came home from work and my teenage daughter said some guy had knocked on the door before I got home and said he was hungry could she give him some food and she said she would be happy to make him a PBJ sandwich to which he replied - don't you have any left overs you could warm up? - she's a young girl mind you and I don't remember if we had left overs or not at the time, but she thought to herself if I was hungry enough to knock on someone's door and ask for food I'd be happy with a sandwich. She shut the door and he got nothing....
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#29
I think I have seen what you're saying Lynn...
I have seen the sheer despair of someone fallen on hard times. It becomes a vicious cycle in which it begins to seem no amount of money can pull them back up. Buy them a car so they can go back and forth to work. Buy them clothes to wear to work. Pay for a babysitter for two weeks until the first check comes. Buy them food for the two weeks. Pay the rent for a month. Car breaks down, pay to have it fixed. Baby gets sick and they get fired because they are at the hospital for two days instead of at work. Rent comes due again and you have no more money to give them so they are kicked out and living in the car you gave them, begging money for gas to keep warm.

It is almost impossible to pull yourself up out of poverty once you have fallen into it.especially if you have no family to go and stay with. Not only would having given them a car not have really helped them, but even all the Hershey's kisses failed to help in the end. This is why I cry when I hear of a whole church committing to help a family get back out of the hole of poverty. They understand that a p&j isn't going to fix it but they take it on anyway.but then I also cry if I see drugs or drinking undo the hard work, time and money they committed to. I've worked myself into a depression and am just babbling uselessly. Sorry. Don't even know what my point was. It's hard to not grow cold and numb to it all.
I know. I've got the same kind of personality. Very empathetic, and often take it so hard if it doesn't work out, I feel terrible for the longest time.

But once in a while, God gives me the happily-ever-after. Food for a week was enough to tide them over until a job came along. A full -oscopy showed nothing was wrong. Or, simply, I made a friend.

I think God fills us for giving too. Maybe because he knows we aren't omniscient on who to give to.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
479
83
Philly, PA, USA
#30
Reminds me of a time I came home from work and my teenage daughter said some guy had knocked on the door before I got home and said he was hungry could she give him some food and she said she would be happy to make him a PBJ sandwich to which he replied - don't you have any left overs you could warm up? - she's a young girl mind you and I don't remember if we had left overs or not at the time, but she thought to herself if I was hungry enough to knock on someone's door and ask for food I'd be happy with a sandwich. She shut the door and he got nothing....
Smart daughter. lol
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
4,994
360
83
#31
I think I have seen what you're saying Lynn...
I have seen the sheer despair of someone fallen on hard times. It becomes a vicious cycle in which it begins to seem no amount of money can pull them back up. Buy them a car so they can go back and forth to work. Buy them clothes to wear to work. Pay for a babysitter for two weeks until the first check comes. Buy them food for the two weeks. Pay the rent for a month. Car breaks down, pay to have it fixed. Baby gets sick and they get fired because they are at the hospital for two days instead of at work. Rent comes due again and you have no more money to give them so they are kicked out and living in the car you gave them, begging money for gas to keep warm.

It is almost impossible to pull yourself up out of poverty once you have fallen into it.especially if you have no family to go and stay with. Not only would having given them a car not have really helped them, but even all the Hershey's kisses failed to help in the end. This is why I cry when I hear of a whole church committing to help a family get back out of the hole of poverty. They understand that a p&j isn't going to fix it but they take it on anyway.but then I also cry if I see drugs or drinking undo the hard work, time and money they committed to. I've worked myself into a depression and am just babbling uselessly. Sorry. Don't even know what my point was. It's hard to not grow cold and numb to it all.
Yes, it is. That is why I had to take a sabbatical from my work with our church's benevolence group. After 7 years of hearing the same story and seeing the same situation played out in peoples' lives, I couldn't be objective anymore.

We got to a point of having financial counselors (members of our church) who would give their time to counsel people, and construct plans for getting them out of their debt spiral, so that their "need" was not just a recurring, monthly thing.

I think that might be one of the more important outreaches that a church can do... help its members become good stewards of the monies God has blessed them with.

It's the tired old expression of giving a man a fish, or teaching him how to fish....
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,832
21
38
#32
Charles Spurgeon said:
Let us magnify the liberality of our glorious Boaz.
Don't forget Nathan

Reminds me of a time I came home from work and my teenage daughter said some guy had knocked on the door before I got home and said he was hungry could she give him some food and she said she would be happy to make him a PBJ sandwich to which he replied - don't you have any left overs you could warm up? - she's a young girl mind you and I don't remember if we had left overs or not at the time, but she thought to herself if I was hungry enough to knock on someone's door and ask for food I'd be happy with a sandwich. She shut the door and he got nothing....
So what does she think about it now?

Not really heard of homeless people going door to door asking for food yet I don't understand the 'give me free' mindset either. Not to say that assistance is 'give me free' since we all require the help of others in one shape form or fashion However, I've gone around asking door to door if they had any work they needed done around the yards to make some groceries monies. However, that is a topic for another thread at another time.

I am just glad she shut the door.

What i first though of when reading your post was like you said, she was young and I cringed at the 'opened the door' since it sounded like she was home alone, but homeless people often eat peanut butter as primary source of their nutrition since it the container is manageable, it isn't as perishable at other foods, it high in protein which is necessary to maintain the physical enerygy/strength. So if one can't understand that a person who was thirsty would receive vinegar while a hungry person would turn down a P&B sandwich might not completely understand some things that others know about and have heard of.

Which reminds me of the time when the inmates out in Texas rioted cause they had to eat steak. Sounds absurd until you find yourself having to eat the same thing over and over, day in and day out, anyone know about Ramen noodles?


Reading passage John 19:28-30, some might think it was mocking by giving seasoned vinegar (balsamic) but giving a thirsty man being crucified is probably the most compassionate thing to do since the seasoned vinegar said to help with the muscle cramps resulting from dehydration, other than vinegar seasoned with the seed the almond tree, unless it was a wild almond tree since the seed from that tree is known to be toxic and fatal in ingested.

But I hear that the Gospel comes not in word only but in power...
]
 
Last edited:

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,383
489
83
#33
I know. I've got the same kind of personality. Very empathetic, and often take it so hard if it doesn't work out, I feel terrible for the longest time.

But once in a while, God gives me the happily-ever-after. Food for a week was enough to tide them over until a job came along. A full -oscopy showed nothing was wrong. Or, simply, I made a friend.

I think God fills us for giving too. Maybe because he knows we aren't omniscient on who to give to.

You are NOT empathetic.

You NEVER seem to understand why I disagree with you all the time!!!!

Why can't you FEEL ME!!!

WHY OH WHY!
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
12,851
615
113
63
#34
Don't forget Nathan



So what does she think about it now?

Not really heard of homeless people going door to door asking for food yet I don't understand the 'give me free' mindset either. Not to say that assistance is 'give me free' since we all require the help of others in one shape form or fashion However, I've gone around asking door to door if they had any work they needed done around the yards to make some groceries monies. However, that is a topic for another thread at another time.

I am just glad she shut the door.

What i first though of when reading your post was like you said, she was young and I cringed at the 'opened the door' since it sounded like she was home alone, but homeless people often eat peanut butter as primary source of their nutrition since it the container is manageable, it isn't as perishable at other foods, it high in protein which is necessary to maintain the physical enerygy/strength. So if one can't understand that a person who was thirsty would receive vinegar while a hungry person would turn down a P&B sandwich might not completely understand some things that others know about and have heard of.

Which reminds me of the time when the inmates out in Texas rioted cause they had to eat steak. Sounds absurd until you find yourself having to eat the same thing over and over, day in and day out, anyone know about Ramen noodles?


Reading passage John 19:28-30, some might think it was mocking by giving seasoned vinegar (balsamic) but giving a thirsty man being crucified is probably the most compassionate thing to do since the seasoned vinegar said to help with the muscle cramps resulting from dehydration, other than vinegar seasoned with the seed the almond tree, unless it was a wild almond tree since the seed from that tree is known to be toxic and fatal in ingested.

But I hear that the Gospel comes not in word only but in power...
]
I think my daughter would do the same thing today at 36. If again someone knocked and asked for food she would offer to feed them probably a sandwich but if their attitude is it isn't what I wanted she'd shut the door again... I mean really if you are hungry you will eat what is offered and be thankful for it. I would be if I had the nerve to knock on someone's door.

She was a teenager but still a young girl and taught to help someone in need if possible.