The bottomless pit, the sea, and the beast with seven heads and ten horns.

[tanakh]

I believe the seven heads of the beast represent the Empires that oppress Israel. They are: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Ten. The Beast itself is made up of elements of the visions in Daniel which was written during the time of Babylon and looks forward from Daniels day. Revelations visions cover the whole of them. In Rev 13 we are told that one of the heads receives a fatal wound which is healed, In Rev 17 we are also told that their is an Eighth king that is part of the seven. I believe this king represents the Antichrist who emerges from one of the seven which appears to be the Ten federation.

The seven heads we are told are also seven hills and most people immediately think of Rome and that the Prostitute is the Catholic Church but are they right? It came as a surprise to me to find out that there is another City that has seven hills and that they were known about in Biblical times. There are more but this one place is featured time and again in the Bible. That city is Jerusalem. The seven hills have names they are: Scopus,Nob,the Mount of Offence,Mount Zion,The Ophel Mount,The Antonia Fortress Rock and The New Mount Zion

In Rev 13 John sees a woman riding the Beast. She is presented as being dressed in colours remarkably similar to those worn by the High priest including a plate worn on the forehead (see Exodus 39)

In the Bible Israel is called a Prostitute time after time. Jesus condemns the authorities for murdering the Prophets. One of Babylons sins in Revelation. The Antichrist rules from a Temple there. Check out the story of Soloman building his Temple and the materials he purchased from the Merchants of different countries against those that were sold by the Merchants to Babylon in Revelation. One of his trade deals involved 666 bars of gold. There indeed is Wisdom.

One interesting feature in Revelation is that the name of Jerusalem is never mentioned in Revelation except when referring
to the New Jerusalem. The only reference to the Earthly City is where its called Egypt and Sodom where the Lord was Crucified. It could just as easily be called Babylon.

Jesus gave this warning

When ye therefore shll see the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the Holy Place
whoso that readeth let him understand Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains.

Matthew 24:15-16

An I heard another voice from heaven saying come out of her my people
that ye be not partakers of her sins that ye receive not her plagues. For her
sins have reached unto heaven and God hath remembered her iniquities

Rev 18:4-5

 

[louis]

Brother louis,

The plagues, etc., are brought by God, not by man using the earth's resources.

Brother abcdef,
I do not know how to respond to you and others like you.
I show scriptures tesitifying as to what the causes is, only to recieve a dogmatic response that contradicts scriptures.
Do you not see how your claiming the plagues in Revelation 8 and 9 are brought about by God contradicts Gods Word in Revelation 9:20, when the Lord attributes them to the love mankind has for the works from his hands?
Here is the scripture one more time that say the plagues in Revelation 8 and 9 are brought about by the love mankind has for the works his hands produce.
Why don't you show me where Revelation 9:20 indicates it is the Lord causing these plagues?

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

 

[louis]

abcdef,
What do the seven angels soundings in Revelation 8, 9 and 10 mean to you?
To me the soundings are warnings provided by the Lords angels.
Angels are illuminators.
The Lords angels provide true illumination, while the devil and his angels provide mankind with false illumination.
This false illumination from satan is why the star/angel to the bottomless pit is called Apollyon, the destroyer, because his providing the key to the bottomless pit to mankind will cause all the destruction seen in Revelation 9.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I believe the seven heads of the beast represent the Empires that oppress Israel. They are: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Ten. The Beast itself is made up of elements of the visions in Daniel which was written during the time of Babylon and looks forward from Daniels day. Revelations visions cover the whole of them. In Rev 13 we are told that one of the heads receives a fatal wound which is healed, In Rev 17 we are also told that their is an Eighth king that is part of the seven. I believe this king represents the Antichrist who emerges from one of the seven which appears to be the Ten federation.

The seven heads we are told are also seven hills and most people immediately think of Rome and that the Prostitute is the Catholic Church but are they right? It came as a surprise to me to find out that there is another City that has seven hills and that they were known about in Biblical times. There are more but this one place is featured time and again in the Bible. That city is Jerusalem. The seven hills have names they are: Scopus,Nob,the Mount of Offence,Mount Zion,The Ophel Mount,The Antonia Fortress Rock and The New Mount Zion

In Rev 13 John sees a woman riding the Beast. She is presented as being dressed in colours remarkably similar to those worn by the High priest including a plate worn on the forehead (see Exodus 39)

In the Bible Israel is called a Prostitute time after time. Jesus condemns the authorities for murdering the Prophets. One of Babylons sins in Revelation. The Antichrist rules from a Temple there. Check out the story of Soloman building his Temple and the materials he purchased from the Merchants of different countries against those that were sold by the Merchants to Babylon in Revelation. One of his trade deals involved 666 bars of gold. There indeed is Wisdom.

One interesting feature in Revelation is that the name of Jerusalem is never mentioned in Revelation except when referring
to the New Jerusalem. The only reference to the Earthly City is where its called Egypt and Sodom where the Lord was Crucified. It could just as easily be called Babylon.

Jesus gave this warning

When ye therefore shll see the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the Holy Place
whoso that readeth let him understand Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains.

Matthew 24:15-16

An I heard another voice from heaven saying come out of her my people
that ye be not partakers of her sins that ye receive not her plagues. For her
sins have reached unto heaven and God hath remembered her iniquities

Rev 18:4-5

Regarding the seven hills-
I'm not posting this as an argument against what you are saying (we all have our own ideas) but I have been suspicious for many years of Constantinople. (Istanbul)


Constantinople is known as the City on the Seven Hills (Turkish: Yedi tepeli şehir). The city has inherited this denomination from Byzantine Constantinople which – consciously following the model of Rome – was built on seven hills too.

Many people in the West forget that Byzantium was the Eastern part of The Roman Empire and it outlasted Western Rome by 1000 years. One should never consider the Roman Empire without taking into account the Eastern part. Byzantium was eventually colonised by Islamic conquest. The Ottoman Empire only officially dissolved in 1922. And there is a movement to re-establish the line of kings (The Caliphate) there.

They've been beheading Christians & Jews for 1400 years.
The Islamic Empire could be the great prostitute (religious) that sits on many waters.
Directly north and also surrounding of Israel.

Just Saying.

 

[Locutus]

I've already proven to you that not every prophecy was fulfilled by 70 ad.

It's only saying that the dest had to happen. Just like Jesus had to die so that all things written may be fulfilled.

You have let the misinterpretation of this one verse, warp the entire time line of your prophecies.

We are still fulfilling prophecies today, when we become Christians and enter the kingdom.

You've proven nothing other than a penchant for trying to fit the bible into your "theology" while ignoring emphatic imminence statements littered all through the new testament:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

1 Pet 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Paul stated the commission to preach the gospel (as per Matt 24:14) was done therefore the end did come, Peter also testifying that the end was at hand when he wrote.

You sir are greatly in error when ignoring plain statements in the bible and interjecting your own philosophy of the end into the inspired writers words.

 

[tanakh]

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

John's revelation reports nohting more than all things that were written in the old testament - therefore all prophecy was fulfilled when Jerusalem was compassed by armies in the war of 66-70 AD.

ALL means all.

Hello Locutus.

I agree that Jesus predicted the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem which brought about the end of the OT Sacrificial system and the end of the Old Covenant period. Where I disagree is in that it was the final completion of the End Time Prophecies. Bible Prophecies often have more than one application and to me Matthew 24 is one of them. Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonions before 70AD but was rebuilt and resettled. It was not the end then. The major difference between then and now is that those who returned after the Babylon destruction were still in relationship with God and under the OT Covenant. Now those who have settled in Israel are not in relationship with God because they reject Christ. Modern Israel is part of a Satanic Plan to foist a false Messiah on the Jews and the whole world. The tragic part is that so many can't or refuse to see this. The second coming will happen when the Antichrist is defeated and a Jewish remnant will accept him as the true Messiah. At his return Christ will bring in a Millennium City and Temple which is described in Ezekiel. That City not what we have today.
It will be destroyed along with Antichrists temple at Armageddon.

 

[abcdef]

Brother abcdef,
I do not know how to respond to you and others like you.

Take your time, we're slow learners!

I show scriptures tesitifying as to what the causes is, only to recieve a dogmatic response that contradicts scriptures.

Contradicts your interpretation of the passage. But that is why we discuss and learn from each other. I'm not sure if i'm dogmatic, I seem to disagree with just about everyone.

Do you not see how your claiming the plagues in Revelation 8 and 9 are brought about by God contradicts Gods Word in Revelation 9:20, when the Lord attributes them to the love mankind has for the works from his hands?

Rev 6:1, Jesus opens the seals.

Rev 8:2, The angels are given 7 trumpets by the authority of God.

Rev 16:1, God tells the angels to pour out the vials.

The origin of the "plagues" is God. They are the result of the sins of men, the sins caused the plagues, God sent them to get men to repent. But men didn't cause the plagues by polluting the planet, or using the materials of the planet to survive. Mining, farming, cities, are all "not sin", to a point. They are part of subduing the planet.

Here is the scripture one more time that say the plagues in Revelation 8 and 9 are brought about by the love mankind has for the works his hands produce.

The works of his hands are producing idols in this passage, and this implies that evil men are doing evil things and continuing. But what about the works of the good men? The ones who do repent? They still work, and produce works of the hands, but they produce good works.

So it's not the production of the works of the hands, men still use the planet, it's what they produce with it.

Are mining companies evil? Are oil companies evil? Are car companies evil? Is farming evil?

Using up the planet's resources is not evil.

Why don't you show me where Revelation 9:20 indicates it is the Lord causing these plagues?

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Men don't cause the plagues by having industry, it's the sin, then God withdraws His blessings.

 

[abcdef]

You've proven nothing other than a penchant for trying to fit the bible into your "theology" while ignoring emphatic imminence statements littered all through the new testament:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

1 Pet 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Paul stated the commission to preach the gospel (as per Matt 24:14) was done therefore the end did come, Peter also testifying that the end was at hand when he wrote.

You sir are greatly in error when ignoring plain statements in the bible and interjecting your own philosophy of the end into the inspired writers words.

All these scriptures are fulfilled by 70 ad, I agree.

So I'm not ignoring anything.

So what is the error that you accuse me of?

 

[abcdef]

abcdef,
What do the seven angels soundings in Revelation 8, 9 and 10 mean to you?

They are the withdrawing of God's blessings on the broken natural branches, where ever they are in the creation.

From 70 ad until Jesus comes for the kingdom at the 7th trumpet.

To me the soundings are warnings provided by the Lords angels.
Angels are illuminators.
The Lords angels provide true illumination, while the devil and his angels provide mankind with false illumination.
This false illumination from satan is why the star/angel to the bottomless pit is called Apollyon, the destroyer, because his providing the key to the bottomless pit to mankind will cause all the destruction seen in Revelation 9.

9, 10, and 11.

The trumpets are against the broken natural branches, but the Roman beast is the chief tormentor of Israel.