The Catholics and my conclusion

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
18,605
2,391
113
#1
So as many of you know I made a thread explaining that I joined a Catholic forum to better understand them and their faith and to see if what is said about them is true or not. first and foremost some of them are indeed saved, just like Christianity they have many denominations and views and doctrines within the Catholic faith however there are some who call themselves Catholics but express a deep love and passion for God and others I was amazed at the fire I saw in some of them.

i will admit though for the most part they are much more about traditions and such, they believe that the Catholic church is the sole authority to teach and that Peter was the first pope although they have no real evidence of this. They also do not test all their beliefs with scriptures like we do they call this sola scripture and say it is a false teaching and some even doubt that the bible is the word of God at all. Water baptism is apparently what saves us according to some of them others say it's Jesus blood but mainly most of them say it's water baptism itself but also then comes the blood.

in short both Catholics and Christians misunderstand each other, both sides believe that they are the ones who are right and on both sides some are simply hateful about the other religion and say that the other faith is pagan but they also have those among them who say not all are unsaved.

So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
49,161
21,794
113
#2
Luke 12:51, Jesus said
Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#3
So as many of you know I made a thread explaining that I joined a Catholic forum to better understand them and their faith and to see if what is said about them is true or not. first and foremost some of them are indeed saved, just like Christianity they have many denominations and views and doctrines within the Catholic faith however there are some who call themselves Catholics but express a deep love and passion for God and others I was amazed at the fire I saw in some of them.

i will admit though for the most part they are much more about traditions and such, they believe that the Catholic church is the sole authority to teach and that Peter was the first pope although they have no real evidence of this. They also do not test all their beliefs with scriptures like we do they call this sola scripture and say it is a false teaching and some even doubt that the bible is the word of God at all. Water baptism is apparently what saves us according to some of them others say it's Jesus blood but mainly most of them say it's water baptism itself but also then comes the blood.

in short both Catholics and Christians misunderstand each other, both sides believe that they are the ones who are right and on both sides some are simply hateful about the other religion and say that the other faith is pagan but they also have those among them who say not all are unsaved.

So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.

Much like I said on your other post, there are heartfelt people in false religions, but Catholics are the blind leading the blind. There are bible verses that directly oppose what they do. To have a heartfelt spirit is not enough, Jesus says the Father seeks those who worship in spirit AND in truth.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,578
3,597
113
#4
I grew up in the East Los Angeles area...predominately Roman Catholic, predominately bible illiterate, predominately ritual/superstition minded, predominately race oriented...in short, the RC shepherds here are doing a terrible job...due to the RC system?
 
Jun 23, 2015
1,990
37
0
#5
Much like I said on your other post, there are heartfelt people in false religions, but Catholics are the blind leading the blind. There are bible verses that directly oppose what they do. To have a heartfelt spirit is not enough, Jesus says the Father seeks those who worship in spirit AND in truth.
Jesus says the Father seeks those who worship in spirit AND in truth.
Thank you
 
Jan 17, 2013
612
19
18
#6
So as many of you know I made a thread explaining that I joined a Catholic forum to better understand them and their faith and to see if what is said about them is true or not. first and foremost some of them are indeed saved, just like Christianity they have many denominations and views and doctrines within the Catholic faith however there are some who call themselves Catholics but express a deep love and passion for God and others I was amazed at the fire I saw in some of them.

i will admit though for the most part they are much more about traditions and such, they believe that the Catholic church is the sole authority to teach and that Peter was the first pope although they have no real evidence of this. They also do not test all their beliefs with scriptures like we do they call this sola scripture and say it is a false teaching and some even doubt that the bible is the word of God at all. Water baptism is apparently what saves us according to some of them others say it's Jesus blood but mainly most of them say it's water baptism itself but also then comes the blood.

in short both Catholics and Christians misunderstand each other, both sides believe that they are the ones who are right and on both sides some are simply hateful about the other religion and say that the other faith is pagan but they also have those among them who say not all are unsaved.

So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.
You are trying to learn and to be fair in your discernment, but there is a great deal that you still do not understand.
May God bless you in moving towards an authentic study of the Catholic Church.

I love the stories of the martyrs in my Church. I'll share one with you.

Teaching and preaching on the road to martyrdom
(about 100 A.D.);
Perhaps no martyr went to his death with such prolonged fanfare as Saint Ignatius of Antioch. For refusing to worship the pagan gods, Ignatius was condemned to be fed to wild beasts in the Colosseum in Rome, and he was led there in chains by a route that started in Asia Minor. At Antioch he had been appointed with apostolic approval as the city's third bishop, in a see founded by Saint Peter himself. While traveling to his death, Ignatius was greeted and applauded by Christians all along the way, and he wrote letters to the various communities, with instruction in theology accompanied by pastoral exhortations. In his letters, we see the first appearance of the Greek word katholikos, describing the Church as "complete", "universal," and "whole", for he wrote, "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." He called for the faithful to be respectful of the ecclesial structure of the infant Church: "Take care to do all things in harmony with God, with the bishop presiding in the place of God, and with the presbyters (priests) in the place of the council of the Apostles, and with the deacons, who are most dear to me, entrusted with the business of Jesus Christ, who was with the Father from the beginning and is at last made manifest."




That the story of one of the many martyrs in my Church who gave themselves up to death before worshiping pagan gods.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,578
3,597
113
#7
Then how in the world did the early Church morph into a beast that slaughtered hundreds of thousands during the Crusades and the Inquisition?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
49,161
21,794
113
#8
Then how in the world did the early Church morph into a beast that slaughtered hundreds of thousands during the Crusades and the Inquisition?
Augustine taught that error has no rights. According to him, coercion using "great violence" was justified.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,578
3,597
113
#9
Augustine taught that error has no rights. According to him, coercion using "great violence" was justified.
Very interesting. Source?
Even at that it would seem unlikely that such a cruel machine can come from one man.
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
#10
So as many of you know I made a thread explaining that I joined a Catholic forum to better understand them and their faith and to see if what is said about them is true or not. first and foremost some of them are indeed saved, just like Christianity they have many denominations and views and doctrines within the Catholic faith however there are some who call themselves Catholics but express a deep love and passion for God and others I was amazed at the fire I saw in some of them.
Thank you.

i will admit though for the most part they are much more about traditions and such, they believe that the Catholic church is the sole authority to teach and that Peter was the first pope although they have no real evidence of this.
That is somewhat misleading. The Catholic Church (CC) says that truths and grace can be found in other churches, but these communities have varying degrees of separation from the CC. I can elaborate on that if you like. Peter is not called "Pope""in scripture, but there is loads of evidence showing that Peter was leader of the Apostles. I would be happy to list numerous scriptures supporting this if you want me to.
They also do not test all their beliefs with scriptures like we do they call this sola scripture and say it is a false teaching and some even doubt that the bible is the word of God at all.
Whoa! All Catholic doctrine is directly or indirectly from scripture, and what you are forgetting is that in order to prove a scripture is actually scripture, it has to be tested against what? A New Testament that did not yet exist? You assume inspiration, but in the first 3 centuries, scripture had to be proven inspired, not just assumed. It was "tested" against Apostolic Teaching, not a bible as we know it that did not yet exist. Catholics oppose sola scriptura because it is not in the Bible, it hasn't done Protestantism any good for 500 years, it can't work, it's not grounded in history, and it is a man made tradition.
Water baptism is apparently what saves us according to some of them others say it's Jesus blood but mainly most of them say it's water baptism itself but also then comes the blood.
Baptism is not magic. The Catholic view of baptism has not changed in 2000 years, the Early Church Fathers (ECF) wrote extensively on baptism, and all sacraments flow from the Incarnation principle. Sadly, Protestantism is extremely divided on baptism.

in short both Catholics and Christians misunderstand each other, both sides believe that they are the ones who are right and on both sides some are simply hateful about the other religion and say that the other faith is pagan but they also have those among them who say not all are unsaved.
That may be your impression, but it isn't true.

Wounds to unity
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."[SUP]269[/SUP] The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism[SUP]270[/SUP] - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.[SUP]271[/SUP]818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."[SUP]272[/SUP]
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"[SUP]273[/SUP] are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."[SUP]274[/SUP] Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,[SUP]275[/SUP] and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."[SUP]276[/SUP]
CCC
So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself
I don't think you gave the CC an honest investigation. Comparing the best Protestants with the worst Catholics simply is not fair.
Scripture, Tradition and the Church are in harmony, there is no competition and one is not over the other.
than God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.
The CC is not pagan.

Much like I said on your other post, there are heartfelt people in false religions, but Catholics are the blind leading the blind. There are bible verses that directly oppose what they do. To have a heartfelt spirit is not enough, Jesus says the Father seeks those who worship in spirit AND in truth.
I grew up in the East Los Angeles area...predominately Roman Catholic, predominately bible illiterate, predominately ritual/superstition minded, predominately race oriented...in short, the RC shepherds here are doing a terrible job...due to the RC system?
Are the RC shepherds responsible for the social ills of East Los Angeles area? If they are given aspirin for headaches and don't take it, can you say the aspirin doesn't work?
 
Jan 17, 2013
612
19
18
#11
Then how in the world did the early Church morph into a beast that slaughtered hundreds of thousands during the Crusades and the Inquisition?
Because people do stupid things. Princes and kings of all earthly sorts are corrupted by their power. You need not look past the doors of your own church to see that. We're talking though about an institution that grew from the first disciples (faulted men like you and I) into what soon became the foundation for western civilization itself. A Church which following the fall of Rome was all that a dark world had to hold together what was left of our civilization and to rise from the darkness again into the bright and shiny world that you live in. You say though that because this 2000 year old global Church of our Lord is not adorned with a spotless white gown of human history - especially through the dark and middle ages - that His Church has morphed into the spawn of satan. That is a great load of idealistic garbage. Get real, human.
This Church is and always has been under constant and intense attack from Satan. History is not always pretty (humans always see to it that it's not). The gates of hell however shall never prevail against this Church.
God bless
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
18,605
2,391
113
#12
Epostle if I said anything offensive I apologize and I admit I may very well be wrong about my understanding of the Catholic church it certainly wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood something. If I were to fully understand it then it would takes years of study and research which I admit I am not devoted enough to do that as I have to continue with my love and relationship with God first and foremost and so I simply cannot do that.

However whether we are Catholic or Christian in the end God is the one who decides who is truly saved and soon enough perhaps much sooner than we think those whose hearts are truly for him and those whose hearts really aren't will be made clear and evident
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,578
3,597
113
#13
Whoa! All Catholic doctrine is directly or indirectly from scripture, and what you are forgetting is that in order to prove a scripture is actually scripture, it has to be tested against what? A New Testament that did not yet exist? You assume inspiration, but in the first 3 centuries, scripture had to be proven inspired, not just assumed. It was "tested" against Apostolic Teaching, not a bible as we know it that did not yet exist. Catholics oppose sola scriptura because it is not in the Bible, it hasn't done Protestantism any good for 500 years, it can't work, it's not grounded in history, and it is a man made tradition.
I'm curious why Rome disregards as you just did, the 39 existing Books of the OT in determining inspiration at that time as well as Apostolic authorship?
Scripture itself says it is sufficient to equip the man of God...

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJVS
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
49,161
21,794
113
#14
Very interesting. Source?
Even at that it would seem unlikely that such a cruel machine can come from one man.
I am not sure where I originally found it, but there is this:

http://www.heretication.info/_heretics.html

It is mentioned there. Also, last sentence of that page:

The oath taken by Roman Catholic bishops at their consecration includes the following
undertaking "with all my power I will persecute and make war upon heretics."


 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#15
So as many of you know I made a thread explaining that I joined a Catholic forum to better understand them and their faith and to see if what is said about them is true or not. first and foremost some of them are indeed saved, just like Christianity they have many denominations and views and doctrines within the Catholic faith however there are some who call themselves Catholics but express a deep love and passion for God and others I was amazed at the fire I saw in some of them.

i will admit though for the most part they are much more about traditions and such, they believe that the Catholic church is the sole authority to teach and that Peter was the first pope although they have no real evidence of this. They also do not test all their beliefs with scriptures like we do they call this sola scripture and say it is a false teaching and some even doubt that the bible is the word of God at all. Water baptism is apparently what saves us according to some of them others say it's Jesus blood but mainly most of them say it's water baptism itself but also then comes the blood.

in short both Catholics and Christians misunderstand each other, both sides believe that they are the ones who are right and on both sides some are simply hateful about the other religion and say that the other faith is pagan but they also have those among them who say not all are unsaved.

So my conclusion is that yes I admit many of them are not saved because they hold much more value and authority in the church and traditions than the bible and God himself but also some are saved holding many Christian values but go by Catholic and do still hold some of the traditions of the Catholic faith but make it a point to focus on the love and relationship with God in order to grow and become strong in him. I won't be going there much anymore because I found the evidence and truth I sought after, it is said that the Catholic faith is pagan and for the most part i would agree but not all of them are.
Ooo, oo! Who next?

I vote Presybterians. That ought to take you quite some time. We come in a wide variety. lol

(Seriously. There are whole denominations of Presbyterians that are as likely to be saved as Catholics.)
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
#16
Epostle if I said anything offensive I apologize and I admit I may very well be wrong about my understanding of the Catholic church it certainly wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood something. If I were to fully understand it then it would takes years of study and research which I admit I am not devoted enough to do that as I have to continue with my love and relationship with God first and foremost and so I simply cannot do that.
It's ok. There is much to learn, but it doesn't take years of study, although it could. Click on my links, they are hard to see so I will stop using blue text. It's not about studying doctrines, it's about doing God's will. May God bless you in your journey.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,578
3,597
113
#17
Because people do stupid things. Princes and kings of all earthly sorts are corrupted by their power. You need not look past the doors of your own church to see that. We're talking though about an institution that grew from the first disciples (faulted men like you and I) into what soon became the foundation for western civilization itself. A Church which following the fall of Rome was all that a dark world had to hold together what was left of our civilization and to rise from the darkness again into the bright and shiny world that you live in. You say though that because this 2000 year old global Church of our Lord is not adorned with a spotless white gown of human history - especially through the dark and middle ages - that His Church has morphed into the spawn of satan. That is a great load of idealistic garbage. Get real, human.
This Church is and always has been under constant and intense attack from Satan. History is not always pretty (humans always see to it that it's not). The gates of hell however shall never prevail against this Church.
God bless
Your 'spawn of satan' comment was you twisting my words.
So you are admitting that the Roman Church is fallible?
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
#18
I am not sure where I originally found it, but there is this:

http://www.heretication.info/_heretics.html

It is mentioned there. Also, last sentence of that page:

The oath taken by Roman Catholic bishops at their consecration includes the following
undertaking "with all my power I will persecute and make war upon heretics."


I have personally witnessed the consecration of a bishop and they don't take oaths. Your quote is a lie. Furthermore, here is the full text of the rite:

Rite of Ordination of a Bishop
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
18,605
2,391
113
#20
I really hope I didn't start a war within the bible forums.....