The Church (Ekklēsia)

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Feb 11, 2012
1,358
7
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#1
The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklēsia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.

The Greek word most closely related to ‘Church’ is kuriakos, used in 1Cor11:20 & Rev1:10, translated: ‘the Lord’s’ as referring to the Lord’s Supper and the Lord’s Day. Meaning in the Greek: belonging to the Lord, related to the Lord. This word became associated with places of ‘Christian’ worship around 300AD under Roman Emperor Constantine. Up to that time the true followers of Jesus Christ were meeting in private homes, often in secret at night. WHY? Because in the Roman Empire there could be no private religion! It was against the law and considered conspiratorial to hold secret or private meetings in homes. This is why the Pagans often brought moral charges against the Christians accusing them of incest, cannibalism and unnatural practices.
(meetings in homes: Rom16:5, 1Cor16:19, Col4:15, Phil1:2, Acts2:46)


Christ Intended Church Matt16:13-19
When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Thus WHAT is the Church? Its Certainly NOT a building considered ‘Sacred’ where the Lord dwells. His Spirit does not reside in things made of stone and wood. When He told His Disciples that if ‘Anyone love Me, he will Keep My Word and My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make Our home with him’ Jn14:23, He was speaking of this ‘Ekklēsia’ of the ‘Called out ones’. These would be His assembly called out of Darkness and Bondage into Light and Freedom from sin! (Acts26:18) The Saints are NOT called to buildings set apart as sacred run by a religious establishment of clergy with some kind of special privileges to Lord over people.
WHO is Greatest in the Kingdom of our Lord?

And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your servant. Matt20:27


But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matt23:11
Even the Ransom (redemption of Christ) is associated with this kind of Servitude:
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”Matt20:28
Jesus as the ROCK 1Cor10:4 (Petra, up on which the Ekklēsia is to be Established) Served on the ‘Called out ones’ behalf in order to Redeem them from darkness to light from the power of Satan to God. That’s why His ‘Church’ is the ‘Chosen generation, the Royal priesthood, a holy nation of His own special people that may proclaim praises to Him who called them out of darkness into His marvelous Light!’ 1Pet2:9. The Ekklēsia is NOT the filthy ragged, desperately wicked, wretched, born depraved, chiefs of sinners sitting under the bondage of a religious system that rules over their minds and keeps them in ignorance. (under a millennial of bondage dating back to ancient Rome)
Peter’s (petros, small rock) confession stands as the testimony of the Ekklesia’s foundation on which the Saints are to build; 1Cor3:9-11 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ! Understanding that it’s GOD who gives the increase, 1Cor3:7. This is why His Saints stand out as ‘Special People’ (unique 1Pet2:9) His Bride who has made themselves ready for His coming, Rev19:7, going forth into all the earth to proclaim the riches of His Glory, (Eph1:18, 3:16, Rom9:23) endued with the Power from on High! Acts1:8. Professing Christians in the Church System do not have a clue what it means to be among the ‘called out’ ones. They have yet to answer the call to Come Out from among them and be separate’ 2Cor6:16-18. Separate from what, They ask, we are the Church!


The Satanic distortion of ‘Church’ began in forth Century Rome under Emperor Constantine who granted religious tolerance in the land that brought an end to the bitter persecutions against Christians. This eventually led to the uniting of church and state, bringing the ‘Christians’ into the great cathedrals of Rome. (considered sacred by the pagans) From that time forward an ‘Official’ religious system existed under the guise of Christianity blending together the idols, pagan beliefs and rituals of Roman culture and remains so to this day. To the officials of Rome you were either a ‘Catholic Christian’ or a ‘heretic’….branded foolish madmen, who should suffer chastisement and divine condemnation.

Essentially this turned the tables against the real Saints of God labeling them dangerous dissenters and who would not bow to the authority of Rome. The Ecclesiastical System had full authority to persecute and legally murder their religious opponents who opposed them. Sparing you the long and bloody history of religious tyranny that brought us the horror of Crusades, Inquisitions, torture and massive persecutions throughout history to present day, suffice to say the ‘CHURCH’ as we know it in our current society has NOTHING to do with CHRIST! Certainly much of the bitter persecution has ceased in our ‘relativity’ free country and we are currently permitted to practice the religion of our choice, it doesn’t negate the FACT that the existing Religious Establishment of professing Christianity in the free world is still Pagan based to its core.

The ‘Churches’ as they exist in our towns, villages and cities, in which so-called Christians claim to worship the One True God are simply an off-shoot of what happened in ancient Rome when the Pure Doctrine of Jesus Christ was nullified by the teachings of men. This is why the ‘Church’ has absolutely no similarity to the ‘Ekklēsia’ of the Bible and also has no desire whatsoever to resemble it. They have their SYSTEM in place that serves the purpose of gathering humanity under a unified pattern of religion where anything goes and people can choose the ‘form’ that suits them best.

The establishment can still maintain a fabricated authority over attendees insisting they must submit to church leadership and remain in fellowship lest they abandon the faith. This enforces the fantasy in the minds of church goers that those who flee the System are angry runagates and devils better off gone rather than stirring up trouble in their midst. In olden times the ‘Church’ exercised domination over the people by the pretense of piety, the place of worship (they controlled) was consecrated of the Lord and dare not be blasphemed or defied. They may not be hunting down dissidents or burning anyone at the stake in our time, but TRY going among them to challenge their false doctrines and expose the sin! You will find out very quickly that non-compliance will NOT be tolerated.

A denominational church will use its entire governing body to see that you’re silenced and cast out of doors if necessary. More independent organizations will muster the governing board against you and see that you’re brought to shame in the eyes of the people. How different is that from excommunication or being branded a heretic by the religious establishment? The illegitimate ‘Church’ System STILL holds great sway over the gullible (professed) Christian public who fear being numbered among the rebellious. God’s greatest Prophets (including John the Baptist) always stood aloof of the religious system and were greatly out-numbered by the dominant forces. Elijah had to stand alone against 450 false prophets of Baal who had already gone out and slain hundreds of the Lord’s faithful. (1Kings19:12-21)

It’s really no surprise that those of us who Preach the Lord’s true Doctrine cannot buy or sell inside the religious system. (Rev13:17) The use of these words; ‘Buy & Sell’ in Revelation 13 are metaphorical. To Buy means the ability to Participate in a market place….To Sell translates as ability to Barter in a place. Are God’s true Messengers of Repentance and Faith Proven by deeds permitted to ‘Participate’ in the designated places of worship? Can they ‘Barter’ (the act or practice of carrying on a trade) among the ‘church’ people? BY NO MEANS…..because they have NOT taken on the Mark (which is the lust of the eye, flesh & pride of life!) but have CAST it away in the Crucifixion of the passions and desires of the flesh. (Rom6:4-6,Gal5:24)

That’s what has separated the ‘Ekklesia’ from the church since the beginning. When Saul (later Paul) made havoc of the church entering into every house dragging off men and women committing them to prison (Acts8:3) Obviously he was finding this ‘Ekklesia’ in the houses. He did not have to seek them out in the local synagogues or other official places of worship approved by the religious system. And the SAME holds true today….you will NOT find the ‘Called out ones’ partaking at the table of demons in a place of idolatry. (1Cor10:21, 2Cor6:14-16)

We see this in Christ rolling back the vale of eternity in Matt7:21-23, when He pronounces those awful words to the people who thought they were serving Him in a false System, “I Never Knew you, Depart from Me you workers of iniquity’! They participated in the rituals and traditions of the ‘church’, but never came out of their sins.
If we look back over the centuries of religious bondage since the days of ancient Rome, we find a ruling elite arrogantly reigning over the mind’s of men by the use of superstition and the fear of a vengeful God. In darker times the mere suggestion that you were involved in anything the church deemed blasphemy it meant banishment from common society. (and often times death by horrible means) The average people could not simply ignore the ecclesiastical influence of the establishment because they had power to brandish the full power of the State against anyone who opposed them. So unless you were willing to contest a standing army that thoroughly enjoyed bloody slaughter, you kowtowed to the System in spite of your convictions.
Of course things have changed somewhat since the advent of Liberty in the world, but billions still live under authoritarian style leadership. The major difference today is that the ‘Christian’ Church is no longer a threat to the darkened authorities. Therefore if it, as an organization, is willing to exist within the parameters of state control it can enjoy full acceptance. (even in places like China) However private gatherings or (in house) churches are still considered a danger by most regimes because they operate apart from the supervision of prying eyes. This includes America, where many of the brain dead mind controlled, still believe their leaders respect the Bill of Rights. The general public, among who most professing Christians reside are already good minions of the State and subordinate to some form of authorized religious authority. The religious systems of history have provided man with a sanctuary for his ‘sickness’ of mind called the ‘church’. They have gone to extreme lengths to preserve this safe harbor for carnality, including the use of torture, coercion and deceptions.
Even when the vast monopoly of the Catholic System was challenged during what historians call the Reformation, the duplicity continued. When the Bible was finally authorized to be translated into English by King James VI in 1604, the ‘esteemed’ translators were instructed to rigorously maintain the Episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ‘ordained’ clergy. So the Word ‘Ekklesia in the Greek text was ordered to be translated ‘Church’! (as it also appeared in the Geneva Bible the Anglo-Catholic Bishop’s Bible) Thus it has been to this day. The ‘Church’ is still considered a sacred gathering place for ‘Christians’ and the clergy keeps the people in a state of ignorance and bliss. However GOD did not intend that His Ekklesia become an institutionalized religion.
We have already established that the ‘Church’ as it exists in America today is NOT the ‘Called out’ ones of Christ. Further evidence of this is seen in their eagerness to obey the rules of State and operate within the constraints of a charitable origination. Since the founding of America the ‘Churches’ have been exempt (for the most part) from paying any taxes. (except on payroll earnings stating in the late 1930’s) However as the Gospel became more and more secular in nature the government recognized it’s opportunity to weasel into ‘religious’ affairs by ‘granting’ them a special status under law to maintain their exemption. However nothing comes from government without strings attached and the American Church System was a prime candidate to ‘sign on’ to something they ‘thought’ was to their advantage. And in a bizarre sort of way the 501 (c) 3 charitable corporate tax exempt statuses (introduced in 1954) corresponds seamlessly into their counterfeit gospel message that follows the Great Harlot of Babylon.
This type of tax exemption turns the churches into ‘corporations’, that must follow the guidelines (as any government granted corporation) stipulated in the agreement. Which means that in order to maintain a tax exempt status the Churches (and any charitable organization) must forego certain activities which are specifically: engaging in political lobbying or campaigning. That means the Pastors or other church leadership cannot endorse a candidate for political office or participate in any political debate that may influence the outcome of an election or the passing of legislation. Essentially this hamstrings the ‘Churches’ ability to act as any kind of a moral compass in society at large.
So there you have it! Your precious constitution brought to naught. Congress making no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…. Has virtually no further significance in the land of the free. Not only have the Churches voluntarily repudiated the Gospel of Christ they have enthusiastically gone in league with the devil! They are a sort of ‘Judas’ goat, selling out for their thirty pieces of silver. They ride the Scarlet Beast of Rev17:3-6, adorn with all the trimmings of ancient Babylon.
As throughout their long and sorted history as a religious hierarchy they have always been FULLY aware of the control they have put forth over men AND used it to their complete advantage. With the 501 they can further demonize the runagates that refuse to comply and wrap themselves in the flag as loyal patriots thereby garnering an even greater creditability to the unsuspecting masses who equate God and Country to the Bible. Is it of any wonder why Solomon said that there is nothing new under the sun? This same type of Mind control has been going on from the very dawn of creation. Man is a creature easily duped (or shall I say Doped) by the Luciferian agenda of instant gratification and the promise of supremacy. Thus you have the SAME establishment today as those who crucified Christ. Controlled in Mind and Heart by Satan himself!
Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull .Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them. Matt13:14-15
The Ekklēsia can never be connected with a System, by definition they are the ‘called out’ ones, Separate from the lust of the flesh, eyes and pride of life; all the trapping of the world the establishment churches find irresistible. They are His Sheep who hear His Voice and Obey, sojourns in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom they SHINE as Lights in a world of Darkness, Holding fast the Word of Life! Phil2:15-16
The religious systems of history have provided man with a sanctuary for his ‘sickness’ of mind called the ‘church’. They have gone to extreme lengths to preserve this safe harbor for carnality, including the use of torture, coercion and deceptions. Even when the vast monopoly of the Catholic System was challenged during what historians call the Reformation, the duplicity continued. When the Bible was finally authorized to be translated into English by King James VI in 1604, the ‘esteemed’ translators were instructed to rigorously maintain the Episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ‘ordained’ clergy. So the Word ‘Ekklēsia in the Greek text was ordered to be translated ‘Church’! (as it also appeared in the Geneva Bible the Anglo-Catholic Bishop’s Bible)
Thus it has been to this day. The ‘Church’ is still considered a sacred gathering place for ‘Christians’ and the clergy keeps the people in a state of ignorance and bliss. However GOD did not intend that His Ekklēsia to become an institutionalized religion.
www.standingthegap.org
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
140
0
#2
In light of the low view of God's Church prevalent among some today, it seems fitting to present the Biblical view of the Church.
It will include copious "addresses," so that like the Bereans, one may search the Scriptures to see if it is true (Ac 17:11).
And it will be comprehensive, so maybe it should be a study, rather than just a read.

So here 'tis.

"Contrary to popular opinion," the Bible has a very high view of the Church, presenting it as:

the called-out people of God, going back to Abraham
(Ge 12:1; Gal 3:7-8, 16, 29; Ro 4:16, 11:16-17; Eph 3:6, 1Pe 2:9-10),

the body of Christ and the singular vessel (Eph 2:11-22, 3:6), the one vine (Hos 10:1; Jn 15:5),

the one tree (Ro 11:17-24), the one fold (Jn 10:16), and new creation (Eph 2:14),

wherein God demonstrates the wisdom of his counsels, for the instructing of the angels
(Eph 3:10-11; cf 1Co 4:9, 11:10; 1Pe 1:12; 1Tim 5:21; Heb 1:;22; Lk 15:7).

It is the New Jerusalem, the holy city; Mount Zion, the holy mountain (Heb12:22),

the circumcision (Php 3:3), the Israel of God (Gal 6:16),

the chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation (1Pe 2:9), the seed of Abraham (Ro 4:11; Gal 3:29),

in whom God's eternal purpose from before the foundations of the world has been to prepare her as a bride, without spot or blemish, to present her radiant to the Lamb, his only begotten Son
(Eph 1:4-5, 5:25-32; Rev 19:7-8, 21:1-2, 9-14).

All of history and all of time are for this single eternal purpose of God--to prepare a bride for his Son.
The OT revealed the plan in types and shadows (Ge 18:18; Ex 15:17; Ps 45:9-15, 48:1-14; Is 2:2-3,
11:9, 24:23, 25:6-10, 26:1-2, 42:6, 55:3-5, 56:6-8, 60:1-22, 62:1-5, 65:1, 17-25, 66:20-24),

Christ secured the plan on the cross (Eph 5:23-25; Tit 2:14),

and the NT reveals the plan in full
(Ro 16:25-26; Eph 1:9-10, 3:3-6, 8-11, 5:32; Col 1:26-28, 2:2-3; Rev 10:7, 11:15, 16:17, 21:6).

So that all those not called to that single purpose (Ro 8:28-30; Eph 1:9-11, 3:10-11; Php 2:13;
2Tim 1:9); i.e.,
all those not included in the bride of the Lamb (aka, the Church, the body of Christ, the new creation,
Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem, the kingdom of God, the new creation) are eternally lost outsiders
(Ro 11:23; Rev 22:14-15; cf 1Co 6:9-10; Eph 5:5; Gal 5:19-21)
because they are not part of the eternal plan secured by the sacrifice of the Lamb
(Eph 1:22-23, 5:23-32; Ac 4:12).

In the light of Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT given though his apostles, we learn that God has only one purpose in human history (Eph 1:8-11),
and that purpose is his Church, the Bride of the Lamb and the body of his Christ
(Eph 1:22-23, 2:11-22, 3:6; Col 1:16-20; Rev 11:15).

That Church is the goal of all his counsels
(Ro 8:30, 9:22-24--cf Ex 12:36; Dt 4:37-38; 1Chr 17:12-14; Pr 13:22, 21:18: Is 43:3-4; Rev 21:6),

the showcase of his wisdom (Eph 3:10-11) and the crown jewel of his new creation (Rev 21:1, 11, 18-21).

It alone is the true Temple (Eph 2:19-22) and the singular residence of his glory (Rev 21:22-23).

In the light of Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT, we see that the prophetic types; e.g.,

the promised land (Ge 17:8, 48:4),
the kingdom (2Sa 7:16,; Is 9:7),
Mount Zion, the holy mountain (Ps 68:16; Is 2:2, 24:23),
Jerusalem, the holy city (Jer 3:16-18; Rev 21),
the bride (Eze 16:32; Is 62:5; Jer 3:6-20),
the Temple (Eze 40-44; Zec 6:12-13),
the priesthood (Is 61:1-7, 66:19-21), etc.

have their completion in Christ, and in his body, the Church (2Co 1:20; Mt 12:28; Lk 17:21; Heb 12:22; 1Pe 2:5, 9-10),
either in time on earth, in eternity in the new creation, or both;

for the Church is that new creation both of time (2 Co 4:16, 5:17; Gal 6:15) and eternity (Rev 21:1, 4-8),
which is the restoring or renewal of the original creation (Ge 1:27 w/Col 3:10 & Eph 4:24 & Tit 3:5;
Ge 1:28 w/Mt 19:28 & 1Co 6:2-3; Ge 2:24 w/Mt 18:8-9; Ro 8:19-23 w/2Pe 3:12-13).

It is in the light of Jesus' revelation, the NT, that we see the marvelous unity of the divine plan (Eph 4:4-6),
as well as of the whole Bible.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#3
nice ty Elin:)
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
140
0
#4
The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklisia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.

The Greek word most closely related to ‘Church’ is kuriakos, used in 1Cor11:20 & Rev1:10, translated: ‘the Lord’s’ as referring to the Lord ’s Supper and the Lord’s Day. Meaning in the Greek: belonging to the Lord, related to the Lord.
I'm not sure how you arrived at kuriakos, when the word actually used by the apostolic NT writers
is ekklesia, whose literal meaning is "called-out assembly."

"The Greek word most closely related to 'Church' is ekklesia, the word actually used
by the apostolic NT writers.

Why are you trying to improve on apostolic usage and teaching?

The history you present has nothing to do with the Biblical meaning of ekklesia used by the apostles,
and translated "church" in English.

The ekklesia goes all the way back to called-out Abram
(Ge 12:1; Gal 3:7-8, 16, 29; Ro 4:16, 11:16-17; Eph 3:6; 1Pe 2:9-10),
which was the beginning of the people of God.

The ekklesia consists of those who are in Christ by grace through faith, Jew and Gentile alike.

There is what can be called the "visible" church, which includes the tares along with the wheat
(see parable of the wheat and the tares in Mt 13:24-30), and which look like the wheat.

And then there is what can be called the "invisible" church, which is only the wheat, but is "invisible"
because it is mixed in with the tares which look just like it, and the wheat can't be distinctively seen,
making it "invisible."

There have been tares among the wheat since the time of Christ (Mt 13:24-30),
the beginning of the church.
Tares are nothing new today.

Your representation of the historical church is unBiblical.
It is human thinking from the mind of man, rather than Biblical thinking from the teaching of Jesus
through his apostles.

No matter the state of the tares, Biblically the true ("invisible") church remains the same,
as the body of Christ, the one people of God.

Your human thinking causes you to see only the tares, and to libel the Church of God,
the body of his Christ, among the tares.
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
2,547
38
48
#5
Yo Tommy, I saw where you said a little while ago that you knew you'd be called many names for posting what you post. Don't you think that sounds a little judgmental? I have never seen anyone call you a name, can you show me anywhere where a user has indeed called you a name?
 
Jul 30, 2012
51
0
0
#6
In Psalm 22:22 we find the following: "I will declare Thy Name unto my brethren, In the midst of the congregation (kahal) will I praise Thee." Then in Hebrews 2:12, the same truth is repeated: Saying, "I will declare Thy Name unto My brethren, in the midst of the church (ekklesia) will I sing praise unto Thee." Now we can see that the word(ekklesia) was the word chosen by God to express the same meaning as the word (kahal).

The Greek word (ekklesia) is found 115 times in the New Testament. Church 112 times. Assembly 3 times.

The Hebrew word (kahal) is found 123 in the Old Testament. It is translated "assembly" 17 times; "company" 17; "congregation" 86; and "multitude"3. Not once was it translated Church. Why?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
140
0
#7
In Psalm 22:22 we find the following: "I will declare Thy Name unto my brethren, In the midst of the congregation (kahal) will I praise Thee." Then in Hebrews 2:12, the same truth is repeated: Saying, "I will declare Thy Name unto My brethren, in the midst of the church (ekklesia) will I sing praise unto Thee." Now we can see that the word(ekklesia) was the word chosen by God to express the same meaning as the word (kahal).

The Greek word (ekklesia) is found 115 times in the New Testament. Church 112 times. Assembly 3 times.

The Hebrew word (kahal) is found 123 in the Old Testament. It is translated "assembly" 17 times; "company" 17; "congregation" 86; and "multitude"3. Not once was it translated Church. Why?
Because:

1) the meaning of kahal is "assembly," while the meaning of ekklesia is "called-out assembly;"

2) the OT was translated into Greek over 200 years before Christ's birth,
and ekklesia was not used for kahal because ekklesia does not mean "assembly."

It was the writers of the NT who gave the NT people of God, composed of believing Jews and believing Gentiles, the name ekklesia, "called-out assembly," rather than "assembly" which is kahal.

Relevance?
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
155
63
#8
In light of the low view of God's Church prevalent among some today, it seems fitting to present the Biblical view of the Church.
It will include copious "addresses," so that like the Bereans, one may search the Scriptures to see if it is true (Ac 17:11).
And it will be comprehensive, so maybe it should be a study, rather than just a read.

So here 'tis.

"Contrary to popular opinion," the Bible has a very high view of the Church, presenting it as:

the called-out people of God, going back to Abraham
(Ge 12:1; Gal 3:7-8, 16, 29; Ro 4:16, 11:16-17; Eph 3:6, 1Pe 2:9-10),

the body of Christ and the singular vessel (Eph 2:11-22, 3:6), the one vine (Hos 10:1; Jn 15:5),

the one tree (Ro 11:17-24), the one fold (Jn 10:16), and new creation (Eph 2:14),

wherein God demonstrates the wisdom of his counsels, for the instructing of the angels
(Eph 3:10-11; cf 1Co 4:9, 11:10; 1Pe 1:12; 1Tim 5:21; Heb 1:;22; Lk 15:7).

It is the New Jerusalem, the holy city; Mount Zion, the holy mountain (Heb12:22),

the circumcision (Php 3:3), the Israel of God (Gal 6:16),

the chosen people, royal priesthood, holy nation (1Pe 2:9), the seed of Abraham (Ro 4:11; Gal 3:29),

in whom God's eternal purpose from before the foundations of the world has been to prepare her as a bride, without spot or blemish, to present her radiant to the Lamb, his only begotten Son
(Eph 1:4-5, 5:25-32; Rev 19:7-8, 21:1-2, 9-14).

All of history and all of time are for this single eternal purpose of God--to prepare a bride for his Son.
The OT revealed the plan in types and shadows (Ge 18:18; Ex 15:17; Ps 45:9-15, 48:1-14; Is 2:2-3,
11:9, 24:23, 25:6-10, 26:1-2, 42:6, 55:3-5, 56:6-8, 60:1-22, 62:1-5, 65:1, 17-25, 66:20-24),

Christ secured the plan on the cross (Eph 5:23-25; Tit 2:14),

and the NT reveals the plan in full
(Ro 16:25-26; Eph 1:9-10, 3:3-6, 8-11, 5:32; Col 1:26-28, 2:2-3; Rev 10:7, 11:15, 16:17, 21:6).

So that all those not called to that single purpose (Ro 8:28-30; Eph 1:9-11, 3:10-11; Php 2:13;
2Tim 1:9); i.e.,
all those not included in the bride of the Lamb (aka, the Church, the body of Christ, the new creation,
Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem, the kingdom of God, the new creation) are eternally lost outsiders
(Ro 11:23; Rev 22:14-15; cf 1Co 6:9-10; Eph 5:5; Gal 5:19-21)
because they are not part of the eternal plan secured by the sacrifice of the Lamb
(Eph 1:22-23, 5:23-32; Ac 4:12).

In the light of Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT given though his apostles, we learn that God has only one purpose in human history (Eph 1:8-11),
and that purpose is his Church, the Bride of the Lamb and the body of his Christ
(Eph 1:22-23, 2:11-22, 3:6; Col 1:16-20; Rev 11:15).

That Church is the goal of all his counsels
(Ro 8:30, 9:22-24--cf Ex 12:36; Dt 4:37-38; 1Chr 17:12-14; Pr 13:22, 21:18: Is 43:3-4; Rev 21:6),

the showcase of his wisdom (Eph 3:10-11) and the crown jewel of his new creation (Rev 21:1, 11, 18-21).

It alone is the true Temple (Eph 2:19-22) and the singular residence of his glory (Rev 21:22-23).

In the light of Jesus' revelation (Heb 1:1-2), which is the NT, we see that the prophetic types; e.g.,

the promised land (Ge 17:8, 48:4),
the kingdom (2Sa 7:16,; Is 9:7),
Mount Zion, the holy mountain (Ps 68:16; Is 2:2, 24:23),
Jerusalem, the holy city (Jer 3:16-18; Rev 21),
the bride (Eze 16:32; Is 62:5; Jer 3:6-20),
the Temple (Eze 40-44; Zec 6:12-13),
the priesthood (Is 61:1-7, 66:19-21), etc.

have their completion in Christ, and in his body, the Church (2Co 1:20; Mt 12:28; Lk 17:21; Heb 12:22; 1Pe 2:5, 9-10),
either in time on earth, in eternity in the new creation, or both;

for the Church is that new creation both of time (2 Co 4:16, 5:17; Gal 6:15) and eternity (Rev 21:1, 4-8),
which is the restoring or renewal of the original creation (Ge 1:27 w/Col 3:10 & Eph 4:24 & Tit 3:5;
Ge 1:28 w/Mt 19:28 & 1Co 6:2-3; Ge 2:24 w/Mt 18:8-9; Ro 8:19-23 w/2Pe 3:12-13).

It is in the light of Jesus' revelation, the NT, that we see the marvelous unity of the divine plan (Eph 4:4-6),
as well as of the whole Bible.
oh...........wow.
i have a lot of work to do this weekend.
love you Elin.

~

we Love you LORD
 
Feb 11, 2012
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#9
Who are the foolish?

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish is foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I used to think this daunting verse only applied to the lost world that has rejected God and His son Jesus Christ!
But the more I delve into the truth, and the more its revealed to me I can see how this verse is now expanding and also applying to those who profess to be a saved, born again follower of Jesus Christ.
It all goes downhill when the few remnant bring them the truth, and expose their strongholds of original sin, substitution, OSAS, Calvinism, etc. This has led to the saved in sin (rebellion and disobedience) and liberal teachings that make the gospel according to godliness a thing of the past!
The truth is foolish to them, and they will not hesitate to tell you straight up, that we who bring them the truth, are the false teachers and of the devil!
They are being foolish as they scoff at real repentance and faith proven by deeds, heart purity, and obedience to the truth, along with free will and ability to actually stop rebellion and disobedience towards God before He will grant them mercy.
We bring countless verses and proof to them, yet the refuse to read them, we give them ample time to dig deep and make their calling sure but they scoff at truth and obedience.
They boldly defend another way to the cross, another gospel, another truth, and another Jesus, who somehow magically took their place, became their righteousness, and feels sorry for their poor sin nature given to them by Adam!
So where is the power? Is God not able to save mankind out of their sins? Is He not powerful enough to forgive and then empower us to have victory over the works of temptation and the devil!
How foolish to say mankind cannot repent, stop sinning, then follow Jesus through an obedient faith on the narrow road, it’s simple:

Act 20:21 testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is the foolish gospel to the professing masses, along with a multitude of many more verses that teach the right way to the cross.
The Billy Graham sinners prayer is the standard in the professing Church today, no repentance, no heart purity, and no conversion, just admit, trust and accept, but to the few remnant this message is utter foolishness because it lacks any real power to save a soul form the corrupting influence of sin, that can only occur through a free will choice, to repent stop disobeying and rebelling against God, seek His mercy and stand firm to the end!
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people was fattened, and they have heard with their ears dully; and they closed their eyes; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Tommy




 
Feb 11, 2012
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#10
Most churches today are under the strong delusion I am afraid, I would encourage you to make sure you are not being led into a ditch by your well meaning pastor, and dig deep for the truth!

I dont come here to argue with those who are in their carnal minds, but to give truth to the few who still have ears to hear, and a teachable heart, the rest will fight tooth and nail to preserve thier saved IN sin doctrines, and be offended by a powerful article on what the true church is, I pray you are a member, which means you must come out of the false church, if it is preaching the lie, and join us few in the fight, the remnant few standing aloof and against the false ways and church!

You will be hated, called names, misunderstood, but isnt this promised to the true saints of God?

Joh 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Luk 6:22 Blessed are you when men shall hate you, and when they shall cut you off, and when they shall reproach you and shall cast out your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
 
Feb 11, 2012
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#11
I'm not sure how you arrived at kuriakos, when the word actually used by the apostolic NT writers
is ekklesia, whose literal meaning is "called-out assembly."

"The Greek word most closely related to 'Church' is ekklesia, the word actually used
by the apostolic NT writers.

Why are you trying to improve on apostolic usage and teaching?

The history you present has nothing to do with the Biblical meaning of ekklesia used by the apostles,
and translated "church" in English.

The ekklesia goes all the way back to called-out Abram
(Ge 12:1; Gal 3:7-8, 16, 29; Ro 4:16, 11:16-17; Eph 3:6; 1Pe 2:9-10),
which was the beginning of the people of God.

The ekklesia consists of those who are in Christ by grace through faith, Jew and Gentile alike.

There is what can be called the "visible" church, which includes the tares along with the wheat
(see parable of the wheat and the tares in Mt 13:24-30), and which look like the wheat.

And then there is what can be called the "invisible" church, which is only the wheat, but is "invisible"
because it is mixed in with the tares which look just like it, and the wheat can't be distinctively seen,
making it "invisible."

There have been tares among the wheat since the time of Christ (Mt 13:24-30),
the beginning of the church.
Tares are nothing new today.

Your representation of the historical church is unBiblical.
It is human thinking from the mind of man, rather than Biblical thinking from the teaching of Jesus
through his apostles.

No matter the state of the tares, Biblically the true ("invisible") church remains the same,
as the body of Christ, the one people of God.

Your human thinking causes you to see only the tares, and to libel the Church of God,
the body of his Christ, among the tares.
what you wrote is totally confusing, you diddnt understand my post, you seem to think the true called out church contains the tares???

Jesus diddnt come to minister to those still wallowing in unrepentant sin, but to call them out of their sin and disobedience, the real church or called out ones is this:

A Saint or an aint?

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow(obey) Me.

Either you are one or the other, no such things as a sinning saint! A saint is walking in the present tense with Christ, being obedient, pure in heart and deed, and listening to His voice, then they follow Him on the narrow road. Luke 9-23-24.

Luke 9:23 And He said to all, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
Luke 9:24 For whoever will save his life shall lose it, but whoever will lose his life for My sake, he shall save it.

A real saint as described in the Bible has crucified his flesh with Christ, Galatians 2-20,

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith(obedience) toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf.


Once and for all, hence I have been crucified, and thus they now walk in newness of life, 2 Corinthians 5-17.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new.


Cleansed and purified of all willful sin, through a real repentance and faith. 2 Corinthians 7-10-11.

2Co 7:10 For the grief according to God works repentance to salvation, not to be regretted, but the grief of the world works out death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this same thing (you being grieved according to God); how much it worked out earnestness in you; but also defense; but also indignation; but also fear; but also desire; but also zeal; but also vengeance! In everything you approved yourselves to be clear (pure) in the matter.



They must remain diligent and faithful to the truth, obey from the heart, and keep themselves undefiled from the world and its false ways! 1 John 2-15-17.

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him,
1Jn 2:16 because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.



You are not a saint without actually doing the works of righteousness(doing what is right) Jesus didn’t obey for you, but made a way, through His bold example for us to follow, He said His sheep follow Him and His steps and ways, which leads to eternal life. But sadly most churches teaches Jesus did it all for them, He took their place, and a real Christian is actually a sinner, but called a saint because they believe in Jesus!

Rom 8:4 So that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

It’s simple, obedience matters, those who count the cost and endure to the end will inherit eternal life, as you walk in the spirit, and not the flesh, walking as Jesus walked, in sincerity, purity and love!

A real saint will not be perfect as some think perfection is( as perfect as God) BUT will be living the crucified life, that only comes through repentance and faith both proven by deeds! And these deeds include obeying Jesus from the heart, abstaining from all appearances of evil, departing from iniquity, counting the cost, and most of all, crucifying your flesh with Christ once and for all, not because He did it for you, but because He commands you to do it, and a real saint will never argue in favor of sin!

Gal 5:24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Tommy

Many will say this way is too difficult, and will come up with many excuses why they can’t obey and follow Jesus on the narrow road, but Jesus made it perfectly clear when He said, strive to enter the narrow gate, where the professing church says, it’s done for you, you cannot obey God, and to fear Him isn't important, just believe all is done, you do nothing but trust it has been done for you! Does this sound like the narrow way Jesus preached in the word?

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 
Feb 11, 2012
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#12
The mainpoint is what church do you belong to the man orientated church teaching many lies, or the true called out church, preaching the truth, who in actuality have crucified their flesh with Christ, and do not consider themselves the Romans wretrch, chief of sinners, or just a poor sinner until the day you die and get redeemed, these are the man made teachings keeping many in bondage to sin, unable to see the truth, and what the true called out church is!
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#13
The Church
Ekklēsia is the Greek word used in the New Testament over 116 times, translated in our English Bibles as ‘Church’. The word has NOTHING to do with stone buildings or sacred places of worship. It is a compound word meaning: ‘Ek’: Out from….’Ekklēsia’ the called out. Thus the ‘Called out’.

The Greek word most closely related to ‘Church’ is kuriakos,
I'm not sure how you arrived at kuriakos, when the word actually used by the apostolic NT writers is ekklesia, whose literal meaning is "called-out assembly."

"The Greek word most closely related to 'Church' is ekklesia, the word actually used by the apostolic NT writers.

Why are you trying to improve on apostolic usage and teaching?

The history you present has nothing to do with the Biblical meaning of ekklesia used by the apostles, and translated "church" in English.

The ekklesia goes all the way back to called-out Abram
(Ge 12:1; Gal 3:7-8, 16, 29; Ro 4:16, 11:16-17; Eph 3:6; 1Pe 2:9-10),
which was the beginning of the people of God.

The ekklesia consists of those who are in Christ by grace through faith, Jew and Gentile alike.

There is what can be called the "visible" church, which includes the tares along with the wheat
(see parable of the wheat and the tares in Mt 13:24-30), and which look like the wheat.

And then there is what can be called the "invisible" church, which is only the wheat, but is "invisible"
because it is mixed in with the tares which look just like it, and the wheat can't be distinctively seen,
making it "invisible."

There have been tares among the wheat since the time of Christ (Mt 13:24-30),
the beginning of the church.
Tares are nothing new today.

Your representation of the historical church is unBiblical.
It is human thinking from the mind of man, rather than Biblical thinking from the teaching of Jesus through his apostles.

No matter the state of the tares, Biblically the true ("invisible") church remains the same,
as the body of Christ, the one people of God.


Your human thinking causes you to see only the tares, and to libel the Church of God,
the body of his Christ, among the tares.
what you wrote is totally confusing, you diddnt understand my post,
I addressed two points:

1) your presentation of kuriakos as the meaning of the church,
when ekklesia is the word used by the NT writers for the NT people of God;

you seem to think the true called out church contains the tares???
2) the assembly of those who profess to be Christians are not all of them the "called-out assembly," which is the wheat.
Many of the assembly are tares, as Jesus revealed in Mt 13:24-30.

The assembly can be called the "visible" church, all those who can be seen to claim to be Christian.
The called-out assembly can be called the "invisible" church, those in the assembly who are born again (which cannot be physically seen).

Your presentation of the historical church sees all professing Christians as tares, and none as wheat.
According to your view, God had no called-out assembly among them.
 
Last edited:

Tintin

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2013
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#14
Tommy, let me show you how to write a short post that people will read. There you go. It wasn't too difficult now, was it?
 
Feb 11, 2012
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#16
This invisible church came out of the reformation, and should be thrown out as truth, get back to the early church, they taught the truth, and were considered the true saints of God,(called out ones) because they were not born sinners, or saved by faith alone, and substitution theology was unheard of! Dig deep for the truth, you will be glad you did

And if you think Augustine was a true saint, preaching the truth, then I can see why you are blind to the truth!

Invisible church
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The invisible church or church invisible is a theological concept of an "invisible" body of the elect who are known only to God, in contrast to the "visible church"—that is, the institutional body on earth which preaches the gospel and administers the sacraments. Every member of the invisible church is saved, while the visible church contains some individuals who are saved and others who are unsaved. According to this view, Bible passages such as Matthew 7:21-24 and Matthew 13:24-30 speak about this distinction.

This concept has been attributed to St Augustine of Hippo as part of his refutation of the Donatist sect.[1] He was strongly influenced by the Platonist belief that true reality is invisible and that, if the visible reflects the invisible, it does so only partially and imperfectly (see Theory of Forms).[2] Others question whether Augustine really held to some form of an "invisible true Church" concept.[3]

The concept was insisted upon during the Protestant reformation as a way of distinguishing between the "visible" Roman Catholic Church, which according to the Reformers was corrupt, and those within it who truly believe, as well as true believers within their own denominations. John Calvin described the church invisible as "that which is actually in God's presence, into which no persons are received but those who are children of God by grace of adoption and true members of Christ by sanctification of the Holy Spirit... [it] includes not only the saints presently living on earth, but all the elect from the beginning of the world." He continues in contrasting this church with the church scattered throughout the world. "In this church there is a very large mixture of hypocrites, who have nothing of Christ but the name and outward appearance..." (Institutes 4.1.7)

Pietism later took this a step further, with its formulation of ecclesiolae in ecclesia ("little churches within the church").

Roman Catholic theology, reacting against the Protestant concept of an invisible Church, emphasized the visible aspect of the Church founded by Christ, but in the twentieth century placed more stress on the interior life of the Church as a supernatural organism, identifying the Church, as in the encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi[4] of Pope Pius XII, with the Mystical Body of Christ.[5] In Catholic doctrine, the one true Church is the visible society founded by Christ, namely, the Catholic Church under the global jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome.

This encyclical rejected two extreme views of the Church:[6]

(1) A rationalistic or purely sociological understanding of the Church, according to which it is merely a human organization with structures and activities, is mistaken. The visible Church and its structures do exist but the Church is more, as it is guided by the Holy Spirit:
Although the juridical principles, on which the Church rests and is established, derive from the divine constitution given to it by Christ and contribute to the attaining of its supernatural end, nevertheless that which lifts the Society of Christians far above the whole natural order is the Spirit of our Redeemer who penetrates and fills every part of the Church.[7]

(2) An exclusively mystical understanding of the Church is mistaken as well, because a mystical "Christ in us" union would deify its members and mean that the acts of Christians are simultaneously the acts of Christ. The theological concept una mystica persona (one mystical person) refers not to an individual relation but to the unity of Christ with the Church and the unity of its members with him in her.[8]
Eastern Orthodox theologian Vladimir Lossky too characterizes as a "Nestorian ecclesiology" that which would "divide the Church into distinct beings: on the one hand a heavenly and invisible Church, alone true and absolute; on the other, the earthly Church (or rather 'the churches'), imperfect and relative".[
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#17
Tommy I see two things wrong with your post(s). First off it's (they're) too long, I know sometimes that's necessary because brevity doesn't convey the whole message. But you have a habit of being extremely verbose. A brief punch that hits accurately is better than a wild swing that people dodge. It's a public forum, not your private congregation here.

2, you seem to think you have a lock on the truth. I did that until Red made a post about independent spirits. Now I don't post anything without the thought that someone's potentially going to teach me something thru their response. Know what? I think people listen better to my musings now than before.

I'm not saying you're wrong, brother, you have some amazing insights to share. But being concise and approachable might help.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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#18
This invisible church came out of the reformation, and should be thrown out as truth,
I'm not wed to those terms.

What do you think would be better terms to distinguish between all those who profess to be Christian and those who are born again?

I'm open to any suggestions.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#19
There the ones who smile at me even tho i dont comb my hair.
Hmm lets call them.....nah nevermind. Tell her Tommy.