The dead are asleep

[Laodicea]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord

2 Corinthians 5:1-8
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
(3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
(4) For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
(5) Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
(6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight
(8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[shininglight]

If the dead are not conscious, then who are these "Ghosts of the dead"?

H7496
רפא
râphâ'
BDB Definition:
1) ghosts of the dead, shades, spirits
Part of Speech: noun masculine plural
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7495 in the sense of H7503
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2198c

H7496
רפא
râphâ'
raw-faw'
From H7495 in the sense of H7503; properly lax, that is, (figuratively) a ghost (as dead; in plural only): - dead, deceased.

These are all the verses where the word is used.

Job 26:5 Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.

Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Pro 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Pro 21:16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Isa 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.

 

[shininglight]

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

(LITV) Sheol from below is stirred for you, to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the departed spirits for you, all the he goats of the earth. It has raised all the kings of the nations from their thrones.

(ISV) "The afterlife below is all astir to meet you when you arrive; it rouses up the spirits of the dead to greet you—everyone who used to be world leaders. It has raised up from their thrones all who used to be kings of the nations.

(GW) Sheol below wakes up to meet you when you come. It wakes up the ghosts of the dead, all who were leaders on earth. It raises all who were kings of the nations from their thrones.

(GNB) "The world of the dead is getting ready to welcome the king of Babylon. The ghosts of those who were powerful on earth are stirring about. The ghosts of kings are rising from their thrones.

(NIV) The grave below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you--all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones--all those who were kings over the nations

(NLT) "In the place of the dead there is excitement over your arrival. The spirits of world leaders and mighty kings long dead stand up to see you.

(NASB) "Sheol from beneath is excited over you to meet you when you come; It arouses for you the spirits of the dead, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones.

 

[Laodicea]

The soul is not immortal, the Bible never links the word immortal or eternal with soul. There is not a single verse in all the Bible that links the words eternal soul together. The Bible says this about the soul.
Ezekiel 18:4
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:20
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So the verses that shinninglight has quoted are not talking about an immortal soul because we do not have an immortal soul. The Bible says only God is immortal.
1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[cronjecj]

the penalty of sin is death.

the soul is mortal and dies
with the body.

however as promised we
are raised up @the last
day and given immortal
bodies when we meet
Christ in the air.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The soul is not immortal, the Bible never links the word immortal or eternal with soul. There is not a single verse in all the Bible that links the words eternal soul together. The Bible says this about the soul.
Ezekiel 18:4
(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:20
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

So the verses that shinninglight has quoted are not talking about an immortal soul because we do not have an immortal soul. The Bible says only God is immortal.
1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

you are quoting those verses about souls dying -way- out of context...

the context of those verses is a discussion of individual sin versus familial sin...with God clearly explaining that children are not to be punished for the sins of their parents and vice versa...everyone receives punishment for their own sin only...

in this context the word 'soul' is being used in the sense of an individual person...like when we say today 'i won't tell a soul'...

so the verses are -not- saying anything about the mortality of the non physical part of the human being...which is what we people are usually referring to when they say 'soul' or 'spirit'

that part of the human being is indestructible due to the fact of its non physical nature...the notion that it can be destroyed makes about as much sense as saying the number three can be destroyed...it is an absurdity...

 

[cronjecj]

you are quoting those verses about souls dying -way- out of context...

the context of those verses is a discussion of individual sin versus familial sin...with God clearly explaining that children are not to be punished for the sins of their parents and vice versa...everyone receives punishment for their own sin only...

in this context the word 'soul' is being used in the sense of an individual person...like when we say today 'i won't tell a soul'...

so the verses are -not- saying anything about the mortality of the non physical part of the human being...which is what we people are usually referring to when they say 'soul' or 'spirit'

that part of the human being is indestructible due to the fact of its non physical nature...the notion that it can be destroyed makes about as much sense as saying the number three can be destroyed...it is an absurdity...

the penalty of sin is death and we have all
sinned so we all are going to die.

the soul is mortal and dies with the body
and the spirit (breath of life) goes back
to God who first gave it.

it's only at the 2nd resurrection and 2nd
coming of Christ that we will put on immortality.

 

[LEVITE]

Genesis 1 GOD creates man in his image and likness
what is GOD image and likeness anser SPIRIT
genesis 2 states and GOD formed man out of the dust of the ground and breathed in his nostrills and man became a liveing soul
ok genesis 2 states the soul that sins shal die ezekeil also so on what dies u say the soul what is the soul simple dust (BODY)
eclese soloman say the spirit returns to GOD in whom it was given jesus last words say father into your hands i commend my spirit so we no the spirit returns to GOD it does not die but GOD says the soul that sins shall die so simple the body sleeps its the body that needs to be resurected not the spirit of man
it is them that sleep the soul/body that needs to be resurected ezeikiel speeks of this also dry bones shall be put back together
revelations says the souls under the alter cried out to god but i think they meant to say the spirit cried out to GOD\
if when jesus died his body not spirt becuse the spirit returns to GOD it was jesus body that died and was put in hell/sheol the pit so on
so in the end the spirit your being heart strengh so on lives just your shell/soul/body is what dies search genesis 1 and genesis 2 for in the begining are the real ansers found correct me if i am wrong thank u

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

the penalty of sin is death and we have all
sinned so we all are going to die.

the soul is mortal and dies with the body
and the spirit (breath of life) goes back
to God who first gave it.

it's only at the 2nd resurrection and 2nd
coming of Christ that we will put on immortality.

the soul doesn't cease to exist when its physical manifestation dies...that is like saying the number three ceases to exist when you erase it from a sheet of paper...

the number three exists whether it is written down anywhere or not...and the human soul exists whether the soul is in a body or not...

 

[LEVITE]

i would have to add the soul that dies is just that dead not comming back on any ground or way for any reason it is imposible just cant happen

for this reason alone man is spirit spirit is the idenaty heart strengh and the very person itself a spirit not a soul if a soul is made of dust and returns to dust it canot be rebuilt or remade except made by GOD and that would be a new body/soul

jesus said one musr worship GOD in spirit flesh and bones canot inherit the kingdom of heaven simple so if that is true and the soul is the body then we can never see or enter the kingdom of heaven ever for flesh and blood canot enter heaven think about it GOD formed man out of dust /body/soul in genesis 2 phisical becuse in genesis 1 god created man and women in his image and likeness explain this if i am wrong

god creates man /spirit the very being idenaty of man his thoughts will evrything of man is spirit
so many theologians confused us to beleiving man is a soul that is false not true a soul is a body and just that simple

lastly if jesus worshiped god in spirit and his words where spirit what where jesus words / thoughts his body or spirit anser
jesus words and idenaty was his spirit the body is just a vehichle for us to see each other and live by laws

angels are spirit only not souls god is spirit only not soul and by this truth the idenaty of angels is spirti there qwhole being is spirit
so why is it just man that has his idenaty in his soul / spirit they claim is the same i say horse feathers we where lied to let us search and allow us to be corrected for the truth

 

[cronjecj]

the soul doesn't cease to exist when its physical manifestation dies...that is like saying the number three ceases to exist when you erase it from a sheet of paper...

the number three exists whether it is written down anywhere or not...and the human soul exists whether the soul is in a body or not...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou
eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ezekiel 3:18 (KJV)
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die.....

John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish\die\death, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

DIE\DEATH = CEASE TO EXIST

 

[IMINJC]

cronjecj


Show me the scripture where it says the Soul sleeps at death.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou
eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ezekiel 3:18 (KJV)
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die.....

John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish\die\death, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

DIE\DEATH = CEASE TO EXIST

your very first scripture quotation contradicts your view...

after death a believer's spirit returns to God...where is God? in heaven of course...so the spirit does not cease to exist after death...

according to your own verse...death is defined as the departure of the spirit and the returning of the body to dust...

use that definition when you read any of the scriptures that mention death...

 

[enochson]

Who can set me free from the doctrine of man who say's what you my lord have made is not forever? thanks be to god for jesus christ!

 

[darryl2]

Death - no immortal soul
Bible does not teach that man has an immortal soul. Rather, it teaches that “man is a living soul”. (Genesis 2:7) What is the condition of the dead? “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Death is a state of non-existence with no consciousness.


Resurrection
It is man’s real hope. Only minority awaits heavenly life, while most of dead will be resurrected by God for life on the Earth (Psalms 37:29). God will restore our beloved ones back to life on earth turned to Paradise as it was originally in the days of Adam before he sinned. There is an opportunity to those who have died without finding God. Thus, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous”. (Acts 24:15) The unworthy whom God judges will not be resurrected.

 

[cronjecj]

your very first scripture quotation contradicts your view...

after death a believer's spirit returns to God...where is God? in heaven of course...so the spirit does not cease to exist after death...

according to your own verse...death is defined as the departure of the spirit and the returning of the body to dust...

use that definition when you read any of the scriptures that mention death...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit (breath of life) shall return unto God who gave it.

breath of life = God's breath, nothing of ours.

we are souls living in mortal bodies.

the soul is not attached to God's breath rather
the soul is attached to the mortal body, God's breath
gives life to the mortal body thus we became living
souls.

 

[IMINJC]

darryl2

You said: What is the condition of the dead? “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.”

That's absolutely correct, but when it refers to the dead it's talking about the body not the spirit.

You also said: Death is a state of non-existence with no consciousness.

This Is only correct if one is referring to the body at death not the spirit. Now if you want to prove your point here then .... Show me the scripture that states that the soul sleeps at death.

 

[enochson]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou
eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ezekiel 3:18 (KJV)
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die.....

John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish\die\death, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

DIE\DEATH = CEASE TO EXIST

sorry Wrong
1. the body is the only thing that came from the dust or earth.
2.the body has and will die because of sin
3'and so the body did
4.the body is wicked and did die
5.thank god jesus did believe in god and didn't see death and gave his body for all sin. And the soul and spirit lived and gave life as a gift to man because of his actions.
6. great place for it to go fitting being #6 the # of man's flesh nature of adam.

 

[Laodicea]

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10
(5) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
(6) Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
(10) Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

 

[A-Omega]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou
eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Ezekiel 3:18 (KJV)
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die.....

John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him
should not perish\die\death, but have everlasting life.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

DIE\DEATH = CEASE TO EXIST

You quote scripture right up to your last statement. Where is your verse that says "death=cease to exist"?? Shows post the scripture and the debate ends.