The dead are asleep

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Tombo

Guest
#41
Sleep is a form of rest. When we sleep we are still able to perceive things in dreams and in a realm that we typically do not talk about but the Bible does mention. Many prophets in the Bible talk about having visions and messages from God during sleep or during dreams.

Therefore even sleep is not a soul death that people like to describe. There is more to the realm of sleep then many will be willing to discuss.

However if you agree that sleep is a form of rest then you will see that these verses talk about what happens to the soul after death:

Revelation 6
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Revelation 14:13
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
Excellent verses to prove once more that the saved dead do not perish, and that God is the God of the livng (not shall be the God of the living later on) and not of the dead. I still don't know why people fight against this wonderfully comforting teaching. It is not Biblically required to uphold the complete destruction of the believer at death, as I and many others have already shown from the Bible. I still don't know why they can't make the distinction between the saved dead and the unsaved dead.
To all fighting for the truth, keep fighting the good fight.
God bless.

Tom
 
Feb 21, 2012
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#42
Excellent verses to prove once more that the saved dead do not perish, and that God is the God of the livng (not shall be the God of the living later on) and not of the dead. I still don't know why people fight against this wonderfully comforting teaching. It is not Biblically required to uphold the complete destruction of the believer at death, as I and many others have already shown from the Bible. I still don't know why they can't make the distinction between the saved dead and the unsaved dead.
To all fighting for the truth, keep fighting the good fight.
God bless.

Tom
Yes we will:D LOL
 
Apr 13, 2011
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#45
Excellent verses to prove once more that the saved dead do not perish, and that God is the God of the livng (not shall be the God of the living later on) and not of the dead. I still don't know why people fight against this wonderfully comforting teaching.
Because it's not the truth, that's why. You are comforted by a lie. The dead are dead.

It is not Biblically required to uphold the complete destruction of the believer at death, as I and many others have already shown from the Bible. I still don't know why they can't make the distinction between the saved dead and the unsaved dead.
At death, there is no distinction. People die. Christians will be raised at the rapture, OT believers will be raised at the resurrection of the just, and everyone else at the resurrection of the unjust.

You are aware that you believe differently from most, right? You at least believe the unsaved dead are dead. Most people believe they are suffering in hell right now, and will for all eternity.

To all fighting for the truth, keep fighting the good fight.
Will do, Tom...

God bless.
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#46
Because it's not the truth, that's why. You are comforted by a lie. The dead are dead.


At death, there is no distinction. People die. Christians will be raised at the rapture, OT believers will be raised at the resurrection of the just, and everyone else at the resurrection of the unjust.

You are aware that you believe differently from most, right? You at least believe the unsaved dead are dead. Most people believe they are suffering in hell right now, and will for all eternity.


Will do, Tom...

God bless.
You say there is no distinction, but the Bible says otherwise. And you are the one who believes differently from most Christians. Once again, "to be away/absent from the body (dead) is to be present (in heaven) with the Lord." Paul wanted to go be with His lord, "which is far better", but he knew he had to remain for the sake of the Philippian's faith.
I can also write about the thief on the cross and 2 Corintians 5 again, but I know you don't want to hear the truth.
God bless.

Tom
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#47
...but I know you don't want to hear the truth.
God bless.

Tom
That's exactly his (shroom2's) fundamental problem...he likes to cherry pick Scriptures, twist them and take them out of context in an attempt support his own personal opinions...
 
Jun 24, 2010
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#48
Because it's not the truth, that's why. You are comforted by a lie. The dead are dead.


At death, there is no distinction. People die. Christians will be raised at the rapture, OT believers will be raised at the resurrection of the just, and everyone else at the resurrection of the unjust.

You are aware that you believe differently from most, right? You at least believe the unsaved dead are dead. Most people believe they are suffering in hell right now, and will for all eternity.


Will do, Tom...

God bless.
When we hear the word of truth, the Holy Spirit within us witnesses that truth (1Jn 5:6) even when we don't understand it fully. That witness goes beyond the knowledge of what is communicated and quickens our human spirit with life and reveals something about our Lord Jesus Christ. You carry a dead doctrine, with no life in it and there is no pun intended.

Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

...AND LAZARUS DID NOT HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE RESURRECTION...LIONS, TIGERS AND BEARS, OH MY!

Jesus wept when Martha and the others did not understand who He was, and today after all that He has demonstrated and communicated to those that He loves, they still live as dead men, with dead doctrine and no resurrection life.

(v.26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

How do we miss this? This is the Lord speaking and making a claim and promise. Do we believe the promises of God or do we abide in the death and deadness of a misunderstood doctrine of Christ?
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#49
The text in rev 6 about souls under the altar is symbolic and cannot be used as proof and if it is used then the bible contradicts itself by having people going to abrahams bosom and under the altar 2 different places.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#50
The text in rev 6 about souls under the altar is symbolic and cannot be used as proof and if it is used then the bible contradicts itself by having people going to abrahams bosom and under the altar 2 different places.

Has not Jesus risen?

Did He not rip the veil which separate us from God?

Did not remission of sins occur with Jesus?

Who were they who came forth from their graves when Jesus ascended from Hades if not those who were in Abraham's bosom in Hades, the OT saints?

What need is there anymore for a holden place in Hades for the righteous, since we have our atoning sacrifice in Christ?

Are we, those in Christ, still aversily sentenced with spiritual death, even though we have passed from death into Life?
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#51
The text in rev 6 about souls under the altar is symbolic and cannot be used as proof and if it is used then the bible contradicts itself by having people going to abrahams bosom and under the altar 2 different places.
ummm what do you think Jesus accomplished on the cross?


the Bible doesn't contradict if read in context. we have where the dead went BEFORE Jesus and where they go AFTER Jesus cruxified....are they the same place?

will have to reread the OT and get back to you on that but, the NT is quite evident that they are ALIVE in HEAVEN with JESUS.

Symbolic?

that is the word people like to use for Jesus miracles too.

are these verses "symbolic"?

Is Jesus cruxification "symbolic"?

Matthew 27
45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”[k]

47 Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!” 48 Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink.

49 The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.”

50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

54 So when the centurion and those with him, who were guarding Jesus, saw the earthquake and the things that had happened, they feared greatly, saying, “Truly this was the Son of God!”


what do you think of these words?

John 11

11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”

,,,

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

,,,
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#52
from what i have seen...people who hold to this view like to use a bait and switch strategy...

if nobody catches them...they will freely go back and forth between claiming that death is a state of sleep and claiming that it is a state of nonexistence...
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#53
Acts 2:29 says David is dead and buried. He has not gone to heaven also acts 2 was spoken after Christ went to heaven
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#54
Do you know that blood was poured at the bottom of the altar of burnt offering? Leviticus 4:7
 
T

Tombo

Guest
#55
Acts 2:29 says David is dead and buried. He has not gone to heaven also acts 2 was spoken after Christ went to heaven
David's body was dead and buried as Philippians 1, 2 Corinthians 5, and Luke 23 make clear.

Tom
 
Jun 24, 2010
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#56
from what i have seen...people who hold to this view like to use a bait and switch strategy...

if nobody catches them...they will freely go back and forth between claiming that death is a state of sleep and claiming that it is a state of nonexistence...
Which is it?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#57
Acts 13
26 “Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent. 27 For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him. 28 And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He should be put to death. 29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:

‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’[f]
34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:

‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’[g]
35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm:

‘You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.’[h]
36 “For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:

41 ‘Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’”


Acts 13:33 Psalm 2:7
Acts 13:34 Isaiah 55:3
Acts 13:35 Psalm 16:10
Acts 13:41 Habakkuk 1:5

John 11
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Do you believe this?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#58
Acts 2:29 says David is dead and buried. He has not gone to heaven also acts 2 was spoken after Christ went to heaven
The argument of this chapter is that David was not the Messiah, but one who still has his remains in a sepulchre, but Jesus rose bodily. David was not the one who ascended to Heaven (v34), but Jesus did.


 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#59
Acts 2:29 says David is dead and buried. He has not gone to heaven also acts 2 was spoken after Christ went to heaven
it is recounting the Historical events of David's death and what happened to his physical body, it saw corruption.

It does not state where David is now, but that David prophesied concerning Jesus.
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#60
Acts 2:29, 34 tells us that David is not in heaven that he is dead and buried Peter who spoke the words was speaking in the present tense