The dial of Ahaz

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Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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#1
In Isaiah 38 God turned back the shadow on the dial of Ahaz ten steps (degrees in KJV).

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.” So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined. ESV

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. KJV

Questions:

1. What does the dial of Ahaz look like?

2. How long did the action extend that day?

3. Was the length of all the following days longer by the extension of that day?
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#2
Maybe it looked like a structure
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#3
Does retro-gradation happen Venus does, do shadows retrograde on steps
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#4
my answers would be these

1. a building with steps each representing an hour or hours
2. none
3. no
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#5
In Isaiah 38 God turned back the shadow on the dial of Ahaz ten steps (degrees in KJV).

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.” So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined. ESV

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. KJV

Questions:

1. What does the dial of Ahaz look like?

2. How long did the action extend that day?



3. Was the length of all the following days longer by the extension of that day?
Like a sun dial

24 hours x 60 min = 1440 minutes a day

1440 minutes divided by 360 degrees = 4 min per degree

10 degrees x 4 minutes = 40 minutes on the dial

and science can tell that almost a day is missing --->This account and Joshua's account of the sun standing still
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,298
983
113
#6
my answers would be these

1. a building with steps each representing an hour or hours
2. none
3. no
I tend to agree somewhat with your description. Since Hezekiah was ill and confined to his bed chamber, it had to be visible from his bed chamber. I think that it was probably an obelisk centered on a platform of 12 (or possibly 24 steps) each step representing a half hour (maybe quarter hour).

Since there is no evidence that this event happened outside of Judah and it had significance only to Hezekiah, it must have been a localized event. The shadow was turned back 10 steps, or 5 hours, then proceeded down normally. This seems to mean that this day of Hezekiah's life was at least 5 hours longer.

I can find no evidence that any other day's length was extended. Hezekiah's night was probably shorter by the same amount as the day was lengthened, and everything returned to normal the next day.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,298
983
113
#7
Like a sun dial

24 hours x 60 min = 1440 minutes a day

1440 minutes divided by 360 degrees = 4 min per degree

10 degrees x 4 minutes = 40 minutes on the dial

and science can tell that almost a day is missing --->This account and Joshua's account of the sun standing still
In order for the shadow to move backwards on the dial, the sun must move backward. The earth's rotation not only stop, but reverse it's rotation.

Would 40 minutes, one step on the dial be significant enough to detect?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#8
In order for the shadow to move backwards on the dial, the sun must move backward. The earth's rotation not only stop, but reverse it's rotation.

Would 40 minutes, one step on the dial be significant enough to detect?
The bible records exactly what happened.....it was SEEN, acknowledged and happened......do you think God cannot do this......stop the rotation of the earth, slow the rotation of the earth, change direction of the rotation of the earth?

YES.....10 degrees on the dial would be easily seen........with stick stuck in the ground one can tell time fairly accurately by the sun......

It boils down to either we take it as face value and believe it or NOT.......simple as!
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#9
I tend to agree somewhat with your description. Since Hezekiah was ill and confined to his bed chamber, it had to be visible from his bed chamber. I think that it was probably an obelisk centered on a platform of 12 (or possibly 24 steps) each step representing a half hour (maybe quarter hour).

Since there is no evidence that this event happened outside of Judah and it had significance only to Hezekiah, it must have been a localized event. The shadow was turned back 10 steps, or 5 hours, then proceeded down normally. This seems to mean that this day of Hezekiah's life was at least 5 hours longer.

I can find no evidence that any other day's length was extended. Hezekiah's night was probably shorter by the same amount as the day was lengthened, and everything returned to normal the next day.
Well actually this debate about it has been around for quite some time, in the 1800 a sundial device was constructed by a French man that proves the phenomenon happens but only in a certain part of the world where a sundial shadow will move backwards because the suns movement in the zone is twice in a day area between the equator and Tropic of Cancer or something like that I have some links if needed.

Imo the steps where actual steps on a building constructed by Ahaz sun dials where built into structure steps actually shown the time of day in the height of some civilizations , it’s not that God stopped the earth or sun it is that God can control even shadows a phenomenon that only happens in certain parts of the world can happen anywhere because God is beyond needing objects to control shadows if I’m not mistaken.
 
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#10
Here’s one artist rendition of the structure.

12F25127-0E01-4B43-BB2A-7BA0E09F1A88.jpeg
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
4,298
983
113
#11
The bible records exactly what happened.....it was SEEN, acknowledged and happened......do you think God cannot do this......stop the rotation of the earth, slow the rotation of the earth, change direction of the rotation of the earth?

YES.....10 degrees on the dial would be easily seen........with stick stuck in the ground one can tell time fairly accurately by the sun......

It boils down to either we take it as face value and believe it or NOT.......simple as!
Thanks for the response.

I agree that the incident happened. We know that Hezekiah lived another 15 years. Evidence enough.

I think that we differ on the length of time that the shadow was shortened. I'm basing my description on the translation of the Hebrew word "ma‛ălâh" as step.

Could you direct me to the science behind the lost day that you referenced?
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#13
Pedro
I've seen this one, and it makes some sense. It does bring up an interesting point though. Was the hour of Ahaz equal as the day passed?
I think it was, I’m leaning towards God moved the shadow without moving any physical object that is used to determine a day on earth
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#14
Pedro


I think it was, I’m leaning towards God moved the shadow without moving any physical object that is used to determine a day on earth
He commands rust and erosion. Long enough. .The clothes did not wear out in the wilderness for forty years . He can make the Sun stand still. He is beyond searching out.

Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him: But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold. Job23: 8-10
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#15
Thanks for the response.

I agree that the incident happened. We know that Hezekiah lived another 15 years. Evidence enough.

I think that we differ on the length of time that the shadow was shortened. I'm basing my description on the translation of the Hebrew word "ma‛ălâh" as step.

Could you direct me to the science behind the lost day that you referenced?
Google it and my math is good based upon 360 degrees in any given circle......
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#16
He commands rust and erosion. Long enough. .The clothes did not wear out in the wilderness for forty years . He can make the Sun stand still. He is beyond searching out.

Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I cannot perceive him: On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him: But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold. Job23: 8-10
Yes or a shadow to move without moving anything else.
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#18
Moving a shadow without moving the object that created seems much harder than stopping a planet rotation
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#19
Is that in the realm of possibility to move a shadow, think so because that is what scripture says happened the shadow moved not the planet.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,218
2,988
113
#20
In Isaiah 38 God turned back the shadow on the dial of Ahaz ten steps (degrees in KJV).

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.” So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined. ESV

Isaiah 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. KJV

Questions:

1. What does the dial of Ahaz look like?

2. How long did the action extend that day?

3. Was the length of all the following days longer by the extension of that day?
I've thought about this off and on for quite awhile.

I've wondered at the disruption of nature that would happen when the magnetic field of the earth is stopped and then reversed and then started again. As well as Coriolis effect stopping, reversing and then starting again.

I don't know what the magnitude of this disruption would be, but I imagine it would be quite significant.


Then I wondered if it wasn't maybe something easier and more simple to explain. What if Earth back then didn't have a wobble to its spin? What if this was the day that the wobble began? If the point on Earth where the dial of Ahaz was went farther away or closer to the sun would it appear as if the sun went backward in its progression?

I don't really know the answers to ANY of these questions but I think about them.