The doctrine of election and reprobation

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Jan 6, 2018
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#41
Do you think your faith/trust sprang from within you and was your doing? (That's a question.)
Saved by the kindness/grace of God through trust/faith, and that trust/faith not of yourself so no man can boast of his faith.
That is how the verse says it.
And that (faith) not of yourself...
I don't boast in my faith any more than I boast in my mouth and toungue to confess that Jesus is Lord.
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#42
But that is the opposite of "the just shall live BY faith." You are saying the just shall live without and before faith. Look at the definition :
by
bī/Submit
preposition
1.
identifying the agent performing an action.
2.
indicating the means of achieving something.
"malaria can be controlled by attacking the parasite"

What you are really saying is that you were saved without having to believe in Christ.
I'm saying I believed Jesus lived, died and was resurrected before I was converted. But I lived a life of sin without Christ in my life. I lived as if He didn't exist, I was doing as I pleased. I had the attitude that I was OK compared to most people so I thought God would find that I had more good than bad and that that would eventually get me to heaven. I believe God was working in my life the whole time and He bought me to repentance and complete surrender. Than I was ready to follow Jesus.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#43
Do you think your faith/trust sprang from within you and was your doing? (That's a question.)
Saved by the kindness/grace of God through trust/faith, and that trust/faith not of yourself so no man can boast of his faith.
That is how the verse says it.
And that (faith) not of yourself...
Actually, the Greek grammar in that verse is referring to Salvation as the gift not to faith.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#44
I would like to know how the majority of Christians deal with this doctrine.

The Bible makes it clear that God has written the names of His elect in the book of life, before He laid the foundations of the earth. The Bible is also clear that the reprobate cannot be saved. I have found this particular doctrine hard to understand, so I would appreciate your views on this subject.

sorry. the majority of Christians are not here...so that would not be possible to answer

I have joined a Reformed Baptist Church where the Elders teach election (predestination) and we believe the 5 points of Calvin. We believe a person is born dead in sin and only God can quicken a dead person. So we have nothing to do with our salvation, it's all by the grace of God through faith.

We are taught that no person would ever chose to give their life to Christ, unless God draws them. So I still struggle with the reprobate doctrine, but I believe the penny will drop and I will eventually understand it.
seems you actually might like to present why you are right as opposed to those who disagree with Calvinism

bit of a sneaky entry don't you think? I wish people would just say what they want to get at it
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#46
I'm saying I believed Jesus lived, died and was resurrected before I was converted. But I lived a life of sin without Christ in my life. I lived as if He didn't exist, I was doing as I pleased. I had the attitude that I was OK compared to most people so I thought God would find that I had more good than bad and that that would eventually get me to heaven. I believe God was working in my life the whole time and He bought me to repentance and complete surrender. Than I was ready to follow Jesus.
My point is the Calvinist position on the order of salvation is a bunch of baloney.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#47
There is grace by the Holy Spirit to everyone (Jn 1:9) but not regeneration.
Then some sort of word must be used other than regeneration to convey: the restoring of sight and hearing that comes before the regeneration of the whole man.

What word would one use for the partial regeneration/restoring of sight and hearing that can then lead to the mans total regeneration?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#48
The problem within some of us

well if someone does not agree with you, they become 'some of us' who have a problem?

I don't believe you are in postition to state millions of people have a problem because they do not believe in Calvinism

God does not 'make' a child run across the road and get run over by a car
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#49
Then some sort of word must be used other than regeneration to convey: the restoring of sight and hearing that comes before the regeneration of the whole man.

What word would one use for the partial regeneration/restoring of sight and hearing that can then lead to the mans total regeneration?
Prevenient Grace.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#50
LOL I am not interested in your version of calvinism, but in the truth.

what's with all the 'lols'?

someone tickling you out there? :rolleyes:
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#52
Do you mean all mankind living in this earth are equal , God put human spirit to all of us when we were born ?.

If there are a, b , c, d. God chose a, b, to go with Him to heaven , and let c, d, roasted to the lof ? ( loved Jacob, hated Esau not caused by their deed ), right ?.

Yesterday a1, b1 went to heaven, c1 ,d1 shall be sent to the lof.

Today a2, b2 is going to heaven, c2, d2 shall be sent to the lof.

Tomorrow a3, b3 is going to go to heaven, c3, d3 shall be sent to the lof .

Then my question : How can this earth end ?. ( tomorrow surely a infinite time ).

Whenever there are still humans (adult , toddler , baby, even the conceived ) with spirit inside (God put that spirit when he or she was born /conceived ) this world will never end.
yeah dude

every human being consists of 3 parts

you have some unbiblical ideas there
 

MarkWilliams

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
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#56
I believe the journey only begins at the point when the Holy Spirit indwells you. He does a complete transformation over a period of time, then we ultimately receive our glorified bodies at the appointed time.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#57
not much in the way of actual intelligent exchange here

just a bunch of my opinion is better than yours

Calvinism has been well argued in this forum, as well as opposing views

I am not a Calvinist nor am I Arminian; but I do get weary of Calvinists acting superior or seeming to believe those who do not hold to their view are somehow stupid or vapid
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#58
Actually, the Greek grammar in that verse is referring to Salvation as the gift not to faith.
I don't agree. I think "that" refers back to the total verse. We can't boast of our saving in any way. We can't take credit for the kindness OR the faith. We can't take credit for being the author or finisher in any way, shape or fashion.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#59
This is the Calvinistic idea of election, but it is not supported by Scripture.

Ahhh! But, it is! But, for whatever reason? Either in Calvin's interpretation of predestination, or, traditions of men, watering down predestination, or, the combination, of (how can I say) "Sheeples" not wanting to accept (a) predestination aspect of How/What our Heavenly Father does, in His going about His business, or, in (a) Sheeples mindset of "Because predestination is not good enough, us?" It's not good enough for anybody!" Never ever realizing that they are the one's that our Father has Given His Only Begotten! And, that is well enough! Seems, there are 2 kinds of "election!" The elect of Christ, and, the elect, of the Father! Might even call the elect of the Father, (the) Very Elect! Tis the very elect, being of "The Remnant" That are/were "predestined" form the foundations of the earth (heaven too). Our Heavenly Father in His Eternal wisdom, seen fit, and according to His Good Pleasure, in "sprinkling" (if you will), during this earth age "His" remnant, from every generation, since Adam!

So? Is this to say that those given unto the Son, cannot be "rewarded" with very elect status? GOD Forbid! This should be our "life's mission" in these flesh bodies, having invested our "talents", to be given even more!
Even now, their are "predestined remnant" walking around this earth (and heaven too). All who are, are even aware of God's "protective bubble", if you will, and even seen, in most cases, by those who have been given in Christ's Hands, as enemies!

So Yes! "Predestination" is supported, by scripture! But, alas, is Spiritually Discerned! But, as yet? Unrecognized by Sheeple!
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#60
The only thing I contributed to my regeneration was a rotten stinking sinful dead corpse. God done it all
I agree. You can't take credit for any of it - including the sowing of the seed of faith in you, the watering, the growing. Nothing.