the Error in the "Error" of saying there is an Error in Gods word

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,371
5,694
113
#81
Now, after 4oo years the churches want to follow modern bibles and forsake the Authorized Holy Bible? .
Irrational fear. No one is "forsaking" The Bible. Stop being such a drama queen. All languages change over time.



 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,831
4,233
113
#82
The posts by the vocal KJV-only proponents in this thread perfectly exemplify the dogmatic attitude that divides believers, with the tone of "YOU'RE WRONG!" rather than "We differ; let's investigate further."
really i'm not KJVO :) and who said that ? please proivde an example of this here .

Thank you ,
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
7
18
#83
Believers? Jesus brought a sword and dividing the truth from error is a godly enterprise. Believers don’t whine about the truth being decisive. God has drawn lines before and its a good thing to know and hate what is false, but love and stand firm in the truth.

In Revelation 13, at the time of the rise of the beast with seven heads, ten horns and crowns came up out of the sea we read that John stood on the sand of that sea of mankind without national borders, and winds of opinions blowing minds every which way.
The modern bibles are like that sand, as are all the philosophical works of man.
But Jesus is the rock of our salvation and his words are life and spirit.
Take heed what words you hear and trust.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#84
What I notice is that claiming errors in the Authorized Bible is a strategy used by defenders of corrupt modern bibles.

The corruption lovers seek to claim that all bibles are error ridden so that ignorant people might assume nothing is seriously corrupt and devilish about modern bibles.

But it doesn’t take much inspection of modern bibles to determine how wicked they are.

So, readers are asked by corruption lovers to think its godly to speak well of the corrupt bibles and the scholars who invented the lies and corruption in the corrupt bible.

If a man speak of error as if the least mistake is important but then says nothing about the corruption in modern bibles, they are deceivers that love the falsehoods taught in modern perverse bibles.

And so they claim it’s divisive to point out the damnable lies in the modern bibles.

And if you force them to see and take note of the corruption, then the corrupt bible lovers suddenly feign being too dumbfounded and stupid to understand plain English, while having claimed to be some supposed wit.

But, does it matter that the devil has entered churches with corrupt bibles and sent his pastors and teachers also to praise the modern bibles?
No, it doesn’t.
It doesn’t matter what subversive lies these corruption lovers tell about the written word of God, because all you have to do is compare the evil to the good and turn away from corrupt bibles to God’s holy written word. That’s everyman’s responsibility.

At the end of the day, so to speak, the truth is seen by all who love truth and hate lies.
So what I get from this is that we all need to learn to read Aramaic and Greek and get a copy of Byzantine manuscripts and a Jewish Torah?
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#85
Biblehub is an online resource. Not a printed copy of a Bible.
It quotes printed copies of the Bible. It even gives the sources if you would like to buy a copy and compare.

Unfortunately I dont have the money but since I am at church I could go look up various versions and tell you what their footnotes say, but would rather go home and back cookies for our kiaros mission team.

Maybe tomorrow evening.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#86
The posts by the vocal KJV-only proponents in this thread perfectly exemplify the dogmatic attitude that divides believers, with the tone of "YOU'RE WRONG!" rather than "We differ; let's investigate further."
Are you referring to Joseppi?

I am not sure if anyone else is a KJVO person.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#87
Sometimes footnotes clarify a passage or a word, sometimes the footnote says that the translation isn't clear or they don't know what the word means in context of the passage.
Those footnotes I like most of the time.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#89
I am sure if you want a Bible filled with theological errors, I was told the Scolfield Bible would fit the bill or the one the Jehovah witnesses publish.
Do a little honest research on CI Scofield before you set about to disparage his character.

The Jehovah witneses remove and or alter sections of the scriptures to fit their theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Enoch987

Senior Member
Jul 13, 2017
317
15
18
#90
Numbers 3. the 3 Levite clans are 7500+8600+6200=22,000. This is rounded to the nearest thousand. The total is 22,300. The firstborn sons of Israel are counted to the nearest one (22,273). Because rounding was used for the Levites, the firstborns sons pay a fine. If rounding was not used, the Levites pay a fine. The math error because of the rounding changes the story but is prophetic of the Sadducees and Jesus, the firstborn son of God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#91

i have used scofield most of my life. I would be careful before I go around bashing something you do not know of sis. I do nto agree with everythign he says, But I have yet to find one commentator or reference bible where I agree with everything a person says.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#92
Do a little honest research on CI Scofield before you set about to disparage his character.

The Jehovah witneses remove and or alter sections of the scriptures to fit their theology.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I should have been more specific. I meant to reference the NEW Scofield Bible (published in 1967 after the man by that name had already died), not the man himself. You can read a book review for your self and decide:

https://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_39.asp
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#93
I should have been more specific. I meant to reference the NEW Scofield Bible (published in 1967 after the man by that name had already died), not the man himself. You can read a book review for your self and decide:

https://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_39.asp
I have no problem with the Scofield reference bible. The notes are not intended to be inspired and the cross references are quite useful. It is a KJV or a NKJV with is also acceptable. Great for memorization.

Some one has been poisoning your mind with prejudice towards the works of a very devout Christian man and the group of men that labored with him.

This verse always comes to mind when folks talk down about men whom God has blessed and anointed to preach and teach the word of God.

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,784
2,955
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#94
Truthfully Lucy, I will have to do some more research on the differences between Alexandrian manuscripts and Byzantine ones. Maybe Angela can recommend some books.

I did find this article..not sure if I agree or disagree yet.

https://bible.org/article/majority-text-and-original-text-are-they-identical

This is an excellent scholarly article, from a reliable source, a conservative Christian website. I highly recommend everyone read it, even if you only get to the graph comparison, which show that literally, the Byzantine text did not exist before the 4th century, that early church father’s had their texts “revised” as late as the 9th century to correspond to the Majority Text, that the TR doesn’t even agree with the Majority Text in many places, but more importantly, the textual variants make so little difference to doctrine, that the whole issue is overblown! (Oh, the footnotes in the article are also excellent - worth a read!)

As far as footnotes, the issue is NOT modern footnotes. Those are clearly marked, the bottom of the page is the preferred place, and yes, comments are often made as to the arguments in the particular quotes.

The footnotes that affect the text are in the Byzantine texts, where a scribe makes a comment in the margin. It could be short or long, but it is always extraneous to the text. And, these manuscripts actually exist, where for the first time, something was added to a particular verses, usually in the margin.

Those type of footnotes are common, and it is easy to identify they are not part of the text. The problem arose, because the next generation of scribes would then copy that margin note into the actual text. And so would the next generation, and all the sucessive notes. So, by the 9th century, there were a lot of notes which had been comments on the sides, now part of the actual texts.

A lot of these are to make a text have high Christiology. So Mark, who alwatys referred to Jesus by his name, “Jesus” has many attempts to make it say “The Lord Jesus” or “The Lord Jesus Christ.” The longer ending of Mark is rife with this mistake.

I am not an expert on textual criticism. I have read the intro to Kostenberger’s 2nd year Greek text, “Linguistic Analysis of the Greek New Testament.” Also, FF Bruce’s “The Canon of Scripture” has some information on textual criticism. Mostly, I rely on my commentaries, which are whole books on various books of the Bible. The New International Commentary on the Greek New Testament” is one of the best sources, but the series is not yet finished, so then I got to other commentaries. Textual issues are dealt with in these commentaries.

Really, the people with their KJVOnlyism are quite laughable. They know nothing of the original languages, nothing of textual criticism, have never read a real commentary, and yet, they stoutly maintain that any other Biblical translation is not pure or corrupted. I think if they even read the article Ariel posted, they would shake their heads and wonder how they could believe that the KJV was the only version. Well, I guess the revert to some kind of “only inspired text” nonsense, because from a manuscript evidence point of view, they don’t have a leg to stand on.

As for how bad the Alexandrian texts are, it was the Bishop of Alexandria, Athenasius, who first stood against the Arian heresy, brought it to a council, where it was decided that Jesus was both God and man. So, some good doctrine coming out of Alexandria, at a time when the Byzantine text didn’t even exist.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#95
folks can decide for themselves via the Holy Spirit what is true. Historically dispentionalism and futurism were not part of church doctrine. Scofield introduced these doctrines in his study bible. since i consider both to be false, i see Scofield's bible as false teaching and commentary.

just as many would consider any Bible denying the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus would not be a true Bible.

The Most Famous Study Bible of Them All: The Scofield Reference Bible | Community Renewal Society
The printed Bible came to the English-speaking world in stages:
  • King Henry’s Reformation put the Great Bible (1539) in every parish church;
  • the Puritans’ Geneva Bible (1560) found a place in every Calvinist’s home;
  • King James’ “Authorized” Bible (1611) became the public Bible for the whole English-language world; and,
  • Cyrus I. Scofield’s self-teaching Bible (1909) was soon found in the hands of every individual believer.
Among extravagant but serious claims for Scofield’s Bible is this: “Historically speaking, The Scofield Reference Bible was to dispensationalism what Luther’s Ninety-Five Theses was to Lutheranism, or Calvin’s Institutes to Calvinism.” (R. Todd Mangum and Mark S. Sweetnam, The Scofield Bible: Its History and Impact on the Evangelical Church, Paternoster, 2009, p. 195. NOTE: This book will be cited below simply as Mangum & Sweetnam.)


I know that many people believe Scofield teachings of endtimes as Biblical truth and I don't consider it an issue that essential to the faith (as in it will not cause someone's salvation state to change if you agree or disagree in eschtalogical theology)

the truth is the Scofield Bible still reprints the KJV of the Bible and God can still reach out and work in people's lives.
 
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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,371
5,694
113
#96
I still think commentaries are beside the point. I've never used a Scofield but I had a Thompson Chain Reference Bible years ago. Before I had a Bible dictionary, an interlinear text and a set of Bible encyclopedias it was good. It had a terrific archaeological supplement as well. All the extras were in the back of the Bible. I don't know if Scofield's is the same but there was no mistaking that the supplements were just that. Nothing was inserted into the text. You could read the whole Bible and ignore it. (In fact I did)
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#97
I still think commentaries are beside the point. I've never used a Scofield but I had a Thompson Chain Reference Bible years ago. Before I had a Bible dictionary, an interlinear text and a set of Bible encyclopedias it was good. It had a terrific archaeological supplement as well. All the extras were in the back of the Bible. I don't know if Scofield's is the same but there was no mistaking that the supplements were just that. Nothing was inserted into the text. You could read the whole Bible and ignore it. (In fact I did)
true, i read the bible for years without the commentary.

however i wonder if the guy who posted the ORIGINAL comment about footnotes in this thread, will come back sometime and clarify what HE meant by it all.

lol thus is the nature of forums. just have to wait and see.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#98
thanks Angela, I will put it to my reading list. Maybe the church library has a copy i can borrow of those books or the pastor might loan me some.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,043
13,576
113
#99
really i'm not KJVO :) and who said that ? please proivde an example of this here .

Thank you ,
I realize that. I was referring to Joseppi, and to a lesser extent, John146, both of whom are vocal KJV-only proponents.