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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#181
#181
fredoheaven said:
Umm, this might be fun but what most Bible Believers here in the Philippines use English and not Norwegian and that's the difference. Maybe I could use as reference your Norwegian Bible if you could teach me or if you are willing to teach me your language...:) And sure you could give me lessons about Norwegian Bible or post text or reading but do interpret them in English so that your intended purpose or meaning be understood. If you want the deal I am okay with it. Go on! It's all your to post... But this is already an off topic.Hoho
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It is not off topic, I was making a point. You seem to think that the more difficult the language of the bible you read, the higher quality it is, in which case a bible you don't understand a word of surely must be good.
 
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eph610

Guest
#182
#182
fredoheaven said:
That will be your opinion but not true. If someone read that, he will further study it why? In his study, he will learned something. That's deeper Christianity not shallow one...
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Why should he be bothered with having to confuse himself with trying to understand the meaning of words?

You KJO types are pretty intellectually snobby as well.....
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#183
Jun 30, 2015
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#183
fredoheaven said:
Hi Dino,

I think, the issue is all about the FINAL AUTHORITY! For you should understand that we are not saying we have “ONE” Authority. The Translators of the KJV has this to say which you may have failed to quote and I quote, “we never thought from the beginning that we should need to make a new translation, nor yet to make a bad one a good one, … but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark”. In short, those authorities of pre KJV English versions of the Bible including the many 5000+ Greek extant mss and Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic were the basis of translation and purifications into what is known as the Authorized Version. The Authorized Version, the KJV being English is the Final Authority for the English speaking people!

Don’t get me wrong, for I sometimes look in the Dictionary, Lexicons and even newer versions but as a reference only and not my FINAL AUTHORITY. SOLA SCRIPTURA!

God bless
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Hi Fredo... first I want to say I sincerely appreciate your respectful response. Thanks! :)

I have read through the Preface to the 1611 KJV, so I have come across this passage before. I have no trouble with people preferring the KJV; but when they try to argue that it is, as you say, the "Final Authority" in English, I don't accept that. The mere fact that there is even one error makes it less than authoritative, and puts it in the category of "good but not perfect", where it has much company among translations. As I understand it, the KJV used as its primary source the seven printed editions of the Greek NT: five from Erasmus, Stephanus, and Beza.

What I have observed is that, in general, people who are pro-KJV tend to take a very militant stance against newer versions, coming across quite disrespectfully to those who disagree. They also (generally) put forth certain arguments which are illogical, misleading, or outright laughable. Not that everything they offer is bogus, but I have yet to see any retraction of a poor argument and admission that it is invalid. It's like some of your compatriots can't handle correction. That's when it gets unpleasant.

May the Lord bless you in your continued walk with Him, and may His Spirit lead you into all truth. :)
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#184
Nov 17, 2015
4,052
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#184
wwjd_kilden said:
It is not off topic, I was making a point. You seem to think that the more difficult the language of the bible you read, the higher quality it is, in which case a bible you don't understand a word of surely must be good.
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Hi, you are making a point that’s good and thank you. But the point I am making is found in English to which I am using KJV and when someone bash the KJV accusing that his preferred NASB is “far more than accurate and truthful than the KJB” is farther from the truth. In the course of discourse, I wanted to make a point that he will have to demonstrate it but you see, I don’t intent to offend but he can’t even fairly, accurately and truthfully demonstrate on what he says. He says there are 100’s more and he give an example but one yet it is found that his assertions of “far more than accurate and truthful than the KJV” is not true. It would be better to prove what he says is all true, the saying goes “better explain than complain” Now, The Hoax of Easy Reading is that at face value it is easily attributed to be easily understood but after a fair analysis that it could not all be true. I won’t let this time demonstrate why the KJV is the preserved, pure and inspired words of God. I won’t let others offend as I have promised this time that’s why I am giving them the space, time to demonstrate their findings crying the same thing as “far more than accurate and truthful than the KJV” but as for me I haven’t seen one.

You know I consider myself new here and actually I am looking for a Filipino Chat that time but when I google it, CC came at forefront. In short, I became a member and I am still here. I am not looking for a fight but when God’s word (the KJB) is bashed then that I need to defend and sometimes when the Holy Spirit prompted me I used chess strategy that says “the best defense is offense” but I would not let our discussion enter therein. Bible Version issue is not new, this is an old, old issue even after the KJV was produced in 1611 for there are already who opposed it. Yes I have no time to elaborate this one but if you like to know about the issue you need to look for the real “KJVO” stance and at the same time the “Scholarship only” stance. Weigh them, study them on both sides then give your own judgment. Is this demonstrable in the scriptures? Yes, my dear, see 1Timothy 2:15: 2 Timothy 3:14-17 and many more.

PEACE I’ll leave you and God bless.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#185
Nov 17, 2015
4,052
949
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#185
Dino246 said:
Hi Fredo... first I want to say I sincerely appreciate your respectful response. Thanks! :)

May the Lord bless you in your continued walk with Him, and may His Spirit lead you into all truth. :)
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Thank you and the truth is God’s word is true! He cannot make mistakes and the promise of inspiration and preservation is that God is able to keep his words!

God bless
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#186
#186
fredoheaven said:
Hi Dino,

I think, the issue is all about the FINAL AUTHORITY! For you should understand that we are not saying we have “ONE” Authority. The Translators of the KJV has this to say which you may have failed to quote and I quote, “we never thought from the beginning that we should need to make a new translation, nor yet to make a bad one a good one, … but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark”. In short, those authorities of pre KJV English versions of the Bible including the many 5000+ Greek extant mss and Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic were the basis of translation and purifications into what is known as the Authorized Version. The Authorized Version, the KJV being English is the Final Authority for the English speaking people!

Don’t get me wrong, for I sometimes look in the Dictionary, Lexicons and even newer versions but as a reference only and not my FINAL AUTHORITY. SOLA SCRIPTURA!

God bless
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Seriously? Seriously? The KJV is the Authorised version, yes. But authorised by who? Not God, that's for sure. It was authorised by King Jimmy. Who gives a stuff about King Jimmy? Not me. I'm interested in making God's Word my top authority.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#187
Nov 17, 2015
4,052
949
113
#187
Tintin said:
Seriously? Seriously? The KJV is the Authorised version, yes. But authorised by who? Not God, that's for sure. It was authorised by King Jimmy. Who gives a stuff about King Jimmy? Not me. I'm interested in making God's Word my top authority.
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Good thing is we make the pure. preserved and inspired Words of God our top priority and hope everybody to make it their Final Authority.Yes the Preface to the Readers is not God's word. Forget it! I just responded to post #176 from 156.

God bless
 
T

Tintin

Guest
#188
#188
fredoheaven said:
Good thing is we make the pure. preserved and inspired Words of God our top priority and hope everybody to make it their Final Authority.Yes the Preface to the Readers is not God's word. Forget it! I just responded to post #176 from 156.

God bless
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You can't just throw away the relevant evidence. That's not how it works.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#189
Jan 13, 2016
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#189
Tintin said:
I'm interested in making God's Word my top authority.
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Awesome! Me too! Where are His words, plural? His pure words without mixture is what God said He would preserve. Where are they?
 
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gb9

Senior Member
#190
Jan 18, 2011
12,148
6,527
113
#190
the Words are in the kjb. and the nasb. and the nkjv. and.......

the Words of God are not in middle English only.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#191
Jan 13, 2016
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#191
gb9 said:
the Words are in the kjb. and the nasb. and the nkjv. and.......

the Words of God are not in middle English only.
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What you're claiming is God's truth is ever changing because each one of those versions contain different words and even different doctrinal truths. Words, plural, are important to God. God is not the author of confusion. More than one Bible creates confusion and doubt, "Did God really say that?"
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#192
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#192
John146 said:
What you're claiming is God's truth is ever changing because each one of those versions contain different words and even different doctrinal truths. Words, plural, are important to God. God is not the author of confusion. More than one Bible creates confusion and doubt, "Did God really say that?"
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You are actually saying that people did not have God's words till middle ages KJV. And non-English speaking nations do not have it till today.
 
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G

Gr8grace

Guest
#194
#194
John146 said:
See post 178
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John, I have never studied from the KJV. And you and I line up on about every big doctrine.......even a lot of the "harder to understand" minor doctrines. What gives?

I have exclusively used the NASB and the Greek for the most part through........*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
 
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John146

Senior Member
#195
Jan 13, 2016
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#195
Gr8grace said:
John, I have never studied from the KJV. And you and I line up on about every big doctrine.......even a lot of the "harder to understand" minor doctrines. What gives?

I have exclusively used the NASB and the Greek for the most part through........*26th ed. Nestles, Allen Text, American Bible Society; New York
**Gramcord Institute, 2218 NE Brookview Dr,; Vancouver WA 98686
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Most, yes, and I would never allow the Bible version issue to come between my brethren in Christ, but even with one Bible, Christians would differ on doctrines.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#196
Jun 30, 2015
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#196
John146 said:
What you're claiming is God's truth is ever changing because each one of those versions contain different words and even different doctrinal truths. Words, plural, are important to God. God is not the author of confusion. More than one Bible creates confusion and doubt, "Did God really say that?"
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This point invalidates your support for the KJV, because it came out after several other Bibles in English. According to your logic, the KJV changed the word of God and created confusion and doubt. Your reasoning is inconsistent here.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#197
Jan 13, 2016
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#197
Dino246 said:
This point invalidates your support for the KJV, because it came out after several other Bibles in English. According to your logic, the KJV changed the word of God and created confusion and doubt. Your reasoning is inconsistent here.
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See post 178

So let's all admit that we don't have the word of God and what we do have are just pretty good translations that can't be trusted. God once gave man His words but did not preserve them for us. Use whatever version you like best. Do what you think is right in your own eyes. If you don't like a particular way a verse states something, hey, just check out other versions and go with what suits you. This way, we can be our own final authority on what God has said.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#198
Jun 30, 2015
25,043
13,576
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#198
John146 said:
See post 178

So let's all admit that we don't have the word of God and what we do have are just pretty good translations that can't be trusted. God once gave man His words but did not preserve them for us. Use whatever version you like best. Do what you think is right in your own eyes. If you don't like a particular way a verse states something, hey, just check out other versions and go with what suits you. This way, we can be our own final authority on what God has said.
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Now you sound snarky and sarcastic instead of dealing with your inconsistency.

Regarding your comments in post 178, it is your opinion that the words of God exist today in English, rather than in any other language. It is your opinion that the English words in the KJV are the "perfect" words of God. You can throw arguments and Scripture verses around until the Lord comes back, but you can't prove those opinions as truth to anyone who does not already hold the same view.

By the way, I've previously refuted your idea that the KJV is 'purified seven times' per Psalm 12, yet you quoted it again, suggesting that you still have not accepted the invalidity of the reference. It's a bad argument, and you would do well to drop it from your repertoire.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#199
Jan 13, 2016
16,945
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#199
Dino246 said:
Now you sound snarky and sarcastic instead of dealing with your inconsistency.

Regarding your comments in post 178, it is your opinion that the words of God exist today in English, rather than in any other language. It is your opinion that the English words in the KJV are the "perfect" words of God. You can throw arguments and Scripture verses around until the Lord comes back, but you can't prove those opinions as truth to anyone who does not already hold the same view.

By the way, I've previously refuted your idea that the KJV is 'purified seven times' per Psalm 12, yet you quoted it again, suggesting that you still have not accepted the invalidity of the reference. It's a bad argument, and you would do well to drop it from your repertoire.
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So would you at least admit that what you read and study is not the word of God? Would God's word contain errors? Would the word of God need correcting? Would the word of God not have the right words, every one? At least admit what you've got cannot be considered the word of God but something close but not perfect. At least be honest with yourself and the world that, although you can get the salvation message when reading this book, you cannot trust it completely. Yes?
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#200
Aug 17, 2015
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#200
John146 said:
So would you at least admit that what you read and study is not the word of God? Would God's word contain errors? Would the word of God need correcting? Would the word of God not have the right words, every one? At least admit what you've got cannot be considered the word of God but something close but not perfect. At least be honest with yourself and the world that, although you can get the salvation message when reading this book, you cannot trust it completely. Yes?
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In your post 178 you are saying that people till KJV lived without complete and perfect Word of God and it was OK, because His gifts are not equal to everybody. This is how I understand your rather long post, at least.

1. So when it was OK for apostles with their Greek, why exactly do YOU need to use something special and perfect like if YOU were the center of the Universe?

2. How do you prove that KJV is the perfect version and not for example Luther Bibel or Chinese Bible? Why KJV?
 
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