The Falling Away - Is this the rapture?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#61
It has been strongly suggested that the "falling away" as spoken by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is the pre-trib rapture.
Not "falling away" but "departure". And no, that departure is a departure from the faith, hence a falling away. However, that falling away or apostasy is a prelude to the Rapture (not the Second Coming which is a different event, and you have not learned that even after being shown).
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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#62
APOSTASY is a departure from the Faith.
Faith in the Word - from Genesis thru to revelation - the faith was always centered on the Word and obedience to It.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John. He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe. He himself was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
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#63
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
"Our gathering together unto Him" should make it crystal clear that this has nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ. At that time the saints RETURN FROM HEAVEN having been gathered together already at the Resurrection/Rapture.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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884
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#64
Not "falling away" but "departure". And no, that departure is a departure from the faith, hence a falling away. However, that falling away or apostasy is a prelude to the Rapture (not the Second Coming which is a different event, and you have not learned that even after being shown).
Our Lord Jesus Christ and Apostle Paul strongly refutes your words - maybe make an adjustment to Scripture instead of the reverse.

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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#65
"Our gathering together unto Him" should make it crystal clear that this has nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ. At that time the saints RETURN FROM HEAVEN having been gathered together already at the Resurrection/Rapture.
false statement and adding to God's words. PLEASE review 1 Thessalonians 4 dear Brother who Christ loves.

The LORD brings the Saints with Him at His Second Coming.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
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#66
Our Lord Jesus Christ and Apostle Paul strongly refutes your words
More poppycock from one who has no clue about the differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming. Some people cannot be taught and some people are wilfully ignorant. Take your pick.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
7,761
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#67
Look up G646 in any Strong's concordance. It means apostasy, cross reference Acts 21:21 also.
"Strong's Concordance" (1890) is not the "end all be all" when it comes to Greek grammar sources and Greek studies... it is actually a "bare bones" reference which only scratches the surface, helping folks get started in Bible study... but really is not a very thorough source.



[what sources did people use as study aids BEFORE 1890, for example ;) ]




P.S. In Acts 21:21 the same word there ALSO means "A DEPARTURE" ('FROM MOSES' in THIS case) ;)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
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#68
PLEASE review 1 Thessalonians 4 dear Brother who Christ loves.
Do you really want me to do a thorough review and will you believe what Scripture reveals or will you persist in your errors?
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
2,545
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#69
Do you really want me to do a thorough review and will you believe what Scripture reveals or will you persist in your errors?
i will always firmly believe Scripture on this and only this Eternal Commandment:
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30

AND this Eternal Commandment:

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

This is not about superiority of argument - which many believe in error, to be.
 

SaltwaterGirl

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2021
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#70
APOSTASY means a falling away from one’s professed beliefs. For a Christian, this means a turning away from Jesus Christ to an imposter. And in these latter days, this imposter is none other than the Antichrist (Satan). He is the dragon who will deceive the world.

Revelation 13:11

The Beast from the Earth
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
2,545
884
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#71
More poppycock from one who has no clue about the differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming. Some people cannot be taught and some people are wilfully ignorant. Take your pick.
Poppycock is when men add to God's words to make an idol stand - in this case it is pre-trib.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,625
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#72
Poppycock is when men add to God's words to make an idol stand - in this case it is pre-trib.
You are calling a doctrine of Christ an "idol". What next? Anytime the truth is presented it becomes an idol? What kind of nonsense have you been taught and are promoting here? You came on board in August 2021. But all you have done is promote false teachings.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
2,545
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#73
You are calling a doctrine of Christ an "idol". What next? Anytime the truth is presented it becomes an idol? What kind of nonsense have you been taught and are promoting here? You came on board in August 2021. But all you have done is promote false teachings.
Dear Brother, you are unable to show forth Scripture of a pre-trib rapture because it does not exist, unless you add your words or take away from Scripture what God did say.

So now you resort to adding to my words what i never said - again this is the ways and methods of the Serpent.

Christ does not approve of your ways right now.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,365
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#74
It's still funny and ironic how they use a word that means Apostasy and try to errantly change it to mean rapture. Without even knowing it they want to commit Apostasy and this is exactly how the Apostasy happens! It's already here just waiting for the man sin to show up. We have a huge amount of Christians praying to take part in the Apostasia and sadly, they will have a part in it. I thank God that my eyes are open can see this terrible error.
That's why you criticize others but provide no proof supporting your position?
The rapture takes the living saints up to clouds of Earth to meet Christ. Christ will descend to Armageddon to battle the beast and after that he will bring the raptured saints to Your question, "How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?" is nonsensical. The world will be full of former deceived who will be ruled over for a 1000 years and all raptured saints and resurrected dead in will populate the world.
You don't know the meaning behind the kingdom age apparently.


Coincides in telling of the sixth seal in Revelation 6:12-16
Matthew 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


In Revelation 19:11-21, that tells of the second coming of Christ, where is there mentioned the resurrection of those in Christ? 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.


For those readers interested in learning more of the pre-tribulation rapture, there are a great many sources to seek and find.

Source:16 Proofs of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

"Proof #8 Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14)

The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture."



This site critically compares both pov's, pre-tribulation and post tribulation.
Daniel 11 God's Timeline
Proof of Rapture (pre-trib)
 
Nov 17, 2017
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#75
Hi!
God is in control - He gave us His Son and through Whom we have Salvation.
Yet God is so great He gives even more of Himself - He offers to us His HOLY SPIRIT - Luke 3:16, Acts 1, 1 Corinthians
God has always been in control over His written word - the Scriptures - it fails us not.
David, sir, we have these study tools for the edifying of the Church......its a Mediterranean book...
2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
God Bless!
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
5,464
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#76
This is very important what is taking place here - don't miss out - every error of the deceiver is covered in Scripture by TRUTH.

The more they seek to overide Truth the more TRUTH Speaks LOUD and CLEAR - there LIGHT shines thru and more and more Blessings come down from "the Father of Lights with whom there is no shadow of turning."

Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father - AMEN

Our LORD hates he who sows discord among the Brethren - the error of pre-trib was given a death sentence about 2000 years ago.

Those who seek to raise an idol in the midst of Brethren will not go unpunished by the LORD (not me).
The Holy Spirit uses His Called Out Ones to expose error. The spirit of error knows no bounds and the Holy Spirit will see to it in us who know Him that it is addressed and given the Sword unto death.

Th error of saying the 'falling away' is pre-trib rapture must and will be addressed according to the Word.

Do you know the Apostle and what he said who agreed with 2 Thess 2
I know it's error but I've had the same argument enough times to be fed up with it.
I didn't want to encourage it to continue.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
2,545
884
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#77
Hi!

David, sir, we have these study tools for the edifying of the Church......its a Mediterranean book...
2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
God Bless!
Yes, my Lord and i have done much study together over the past 37 years - you should try it.

The Holy Spirit and the Word - They have never failed me and never will.

pre-trib is not only a failure, it is a direct lie in opposition to God's words.
This tactic of satan started in the Garden and he tried it with Jesus - Luke 4: 1-14
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
2,545
884
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#78
I know it's error but I've had the same argument enough times to be fed up with it.
I didn't want to encourage it to continue.
Well, as you said before - they use bully tactics which i am not afraid of.
This they do to get people to just give in to the error and make peace with it - the same plan many antichrists have used.

Secondly, the Holy Spirit is guiding me here and they just keep digging a hole for themselves.
God knows there tactics, it always falls apart in the end.
Your spiritual warfare prayers are always received - thank you.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,195
600
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#79
"Strong's Concordance" (1890) is not the "end all be all" when it comes to Greek grammar sources and Greek studies... it is actually a "bare bones" reference which only scratches the surface, helping folks get started in Bible study... but really is not a very thorough source.

That's not true. Strongs is as good as most concordances are. There are some that have more info and details but the meaning of a word like Apostasia is exactly the same between all of them. They all agree that Apostasia in 2 Thess means a religious departure in a negative Apostasy sense.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,195
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#80
That's why you criticize others but provide no proof supporting your position?

I've supported the position thoroughly throughout this thread and others. This is a nonsense post.