The Gross Error of Limited Atonement

[SovereignGrace]

Show me where I said it was not the will of God Jeepers, I have seen you so many times deny that faith and repentance are necessary by claiming that if Christ died for all, then all would be saved. It is a bit late for you to be pretending this is not your stance.

I have NEVER denied faith and repentance are necessary. Without them, no one is saved. You're right. Jeepers! I deny they are innate in mankind, but they are gifts of God given to them in regeneration.

 

[Magenta]

I have NEVER denied faith and repentance are necessary. Without them, no one is saved. You're right. Jeepers! I deny they are innate in mankind, but they are gifts of God given to them in regeneration.

You left off part of what I said, because your stance has repeatedly been that IF Christ died for all, then ALL would be saved, and LOGICALLY that irrefutably means that you deny the importance of repentance and belief in receiving salvation.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You left off part of what I said, because your stance has repeatedly been that IF Christ died for all, then ALL would be saved, and LOGICALLY that irrefutably means that you deny the importance of repentance and belief in receiving salvation.

You speak about my beliefs and know not what you speak. If the Christ died for all w/o exception, then all w/o exception are saved, seeing the atonement is that powerful, and was accepted by the Christ's Father. The atonement brought with it reconciliation. To be reconciled means two enemies were made friends. If the Christ died for all w/o exception, He atoned for all w/o exception, and all w/o exception are now God's friends. None of God's friends end up in an eternal gehenna.

But faith and repentance are necessary for salvation. Without them, none are saved. You're just trying to spread a lie on me.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You left off part of what I said, because your stance has repeatedly been that IF Christ died for all, then ALL would be saved, and LOGICALLY that irrefutably means that you deny the importance of repentance and belief in receiving salvation.

Pull up one post where I said I deny faith and repentance aren't necesaary. Surely you can find one pretty easily if I have stated this numerous times.

You need to quit telling lies on me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

why was atonement made for all Israel? why not the Hittites or the Amorites?

you didn't really answer my questions as to Christ's atonement, but never mind.

that is really not difficult

are you aware that anyone could become a Jew in the OT? that's right...the whole kit

are you also aware there are non-Jew (by birth) included in the lineage of Jesus?

you know, God said to His chosen people, a long time ago, CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE

I don't know why some believe He changed His methods in the NT. Whosoever means anyone...if God was as narrow in His field of vision as some seem to believe, Paul would not have been the Apostle to the Gentiles

Christians are Christians by God's will, but ONLY through faith in Christ. His sacrifice atones for WHOSOEVER WILL

God knows those who will accept Christ because He is not constrained by linear time

to this day, a person can convert to Judaism, and they allow it, because of what God allowed.

John 3:16 among many other scriptures that disagree with the infamous Mr Calvin

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Atonement made for Rahab and as a result she was placed into the lineage of Jesus Christ, mentioned as one having faith in Hebrews and justified by her works in James

Matthew 1:5
Hebrews 11:31
James 2:25

Shall we talk about Ruth as well?

that's what I am referring to in my post above

 

[Magenta]

Pull up one post where I said I deny faith and repentance aren't necesaary. Surely you can find one pretty easily if I have stated this numerous times.

You need to quit telling lies on me.

I am not misrepresenting you at all. Your claim is that if Christ died for all then all would be saved, which completely overlooks the need for repentance and belief. That your beliefs are logically inconsistent is on you, not me

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No. He said, "Father, forgive them." So, by going by your first post, the Christ asked the Father to forgive them, so they are in heaven.

Just following your logic.

Unless the Father did not forgive them even though He said to?

Which is it?

that is a really good example of a non sequitur

does the Bible somewhere state that Jesus commands the Father?

nope. you know it doesn't

your attempt at logic here does not fly. who knows who accepted Jesus as their Messiah after He rose again.

you have no idea who may have been saved after the fact

it's really not hard to see this if you are willing to see what is written and not go looking for dead end illogical offerings that actually display the error of Mr Calvin

 

[notmyown]

that is really not difficult

are you aware that anyone could become a Jew in the OT? that's right...the whole kit

are you also aware there are non-Jew (by birth) included in the lineage of Jesus?

i did know, but thanks for looking out for me.

you know, God said to His chosen people, a long time ago, CHOOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE

i knew that, too, words He spoke to a people already in covenant with Him. did you know He also said this to them:

It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. (Deut 7)

I don't know why some believe He changed His methods in the NT.

i don't know either, lol

Whosoever means anyone...if God was as narrow in His field of vision as some seem to believe, Paul would not have been the Apostle to the Gentiles

Christians are Christians by God's will, but ONLY through faith in Christ. His sacrifice atones for WHOSOEVER WILL

God knows those who will accept Christ because He is not constrained by linear time

to this day, a person can convert to Judaism, and they allow it, because of what God allowed.

John 3:16 among many other scriptures that disagree with the infamous Mr Calvin

i don't get my theology from Calvin. never read a word he wrote in my life.

we'll have to disagree on the meaning of the atonement and the 'corridors of time' sweep, but i appreciate you taking the time to write to me!

 

[beastslayer1970]

You speak about my beliefs and know not what you speak. If the Christ died for all w/o exception, then all w/o exception are saved, seeing the atonement is that powerful, and was accepted by the Christ's Father. The atonement brought with it reconciliation. To be reconciled means two enemies were made friends. If the Christ died for all w/o exception, He atoned for all w/o exception, and all w/o exception are now God's friends. None of God's friends end up in an eternal gehenna.

But faith and repentance are necessary for salvation. Without them, none are saved. You're just trying to spread a lie on me.

you are so twisted up in the veil you have no idea where you are at.

 

[garee]

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The Calvinist will never see the magnitude of Gods grace. Magnitude of Gods grace even to those who will ultimately reject the Precious Lamb of God.

For the cause of Chrisst
Roger

Calvin is dead .

How do you think the many that the father gives the Son will never see the magnitude of Gods grace by the Precious Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world , if they believe according to that grace that comes from a work of His faith?

 

[notmyown]

Yes, beautiful indeed is the love of God I recently watched the fifties classic, "The Ten Commandments." Anyways, why Abraham? Because he listened. He had faith. He believed. He even saw the day of Christ's coming, and was glad. By human standards, in the natural man especially, God may not make sense. However, my faith and understanding make perfect, logical sense to me

aw, haven't seen that film since i was a kid. wait, had they made it yet then?

my question about Abraham is this, and perhaps unanswerable:

what was he doin' in Ur of the Chaldees before God called Him? i mean was he wandering around wishing the True and Living God would appear and command him?

he listened because he had faith, but where did he get the faith? did he seek for God, or did God go to him? and why him and not some other guy in Ur?

 

[beastslayer1970]

In the OT Atonement is the covering of sin, not the removal of it.

In the NT Atonement is reconciliation

Gasp he went there. Yes he did.

 

[preacher4truth]

you are so twisted up in the veil you have no idea where you are at.

'

It appears he's biblically solid to me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i did know, but thanks for looking out for me.



i knew that, too, words He spoke to a people already in covenant with Him. did you know He also said this to them:

It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. (Deut 7)




i don't know either, lol



i don't get my theology from Calvin. never read a word he wrote in my life.

we'll have to disagree on the meaning of the atonement and the 'corridors of time' sweep, but i appreciate you taking the time to write to me!

well disagreement on small matters is fine

but the fact that Christ died for all and whosoever will may come, is not a small matter

i knew that, too, words He spoke to a people already in covenant with Him. did you know He also said this to them:

It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. (Deut 7)

nothing has changed

for God so loved THE WORLD..John 3:16

which does not mean universalism as we must still choose.

for that matter, people walk away from Christianity and God will go after some..like the 100th missing sheep

I would agree with the difference between free will and self will here...even when we are saved, we still have to deal with out self will

I didn't really take the time to write to you. I am actually refuting your position.

nice of you to see it differently of course. no surprise there.

it seems you do agree with Calvinism however. you don't have to read him to agree with him.

 

[Johnny_B]

this was his mistake. he didnt even realize that believing is indeed necessary in order to make the blood of Christ efficacious. just like in the old testament all the animal sacrifices didnt matter if u didnt have humbleness and faith.

aint it strange how someone like that can miss a plain truth of scripture?

You just defined limited atonement, the atonement is only effective for those that believe and what did Peter say on that first day?

Acts 2:39 “For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

Here's what Paul says

I Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

The effects of the atonement is limited to those that believe, now lets look at what Jesus said.

John 10:14-15 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Jesus Himself says He is dying for the sheep, not the world, yes His atonement is sufficient for the sins of the world, but it is only effective for the sheep or those He calls to Himself. Look at John 3:16 it is limited to those that believe.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Acts 2:39 defined whoever as those that He calls to Himself.

 

[Issachar92]

Scholar Johnny there didnt read verse 40, ya know the verse after 39.
The guys who fall for the calvinist movement must have no street smarts at all.

 

[Grandpa]

Christ died for all, but His blood is only imputed to those that believe.

Roger, that is limited atonement.

 

[preacher4truth]

Roger, that is limited atonement.

That is not limited atonement brother.

 

[Grandpa]

The "lifeboats", (atonement), are for everyone, but not all men will get in them.

Surely the Atonement is Sufficient to save everyone who has ever lived or will ever live. That is not the issue at hand.

The fact that not all men will be saved is the proof that the Atonement is LIMITED to those who are in fact saved.

The very meaning of Atonement should tell you all this.

Christ is sufficient but His Atonement doesn't apply to all, only the saved.