THE HOLY SPIRIT IS AN ANGEL!?!?

NewJerusalem · Dec 24, 2009

Can the Holy Spirit ever be considered a "MESENGER" ?

after all. is not teh word Angel in Greek Angelos? meaning merely "messenger" ?

just thinkin.

truthseeker1976 · Dec 24, 2009

NewJerusalem said:

That's correct. Angels mean messenger. So why is it wrong to say that the Holy Spirit is the messenger who brings the word of truth (which he heard from God) to the man who first obeys the commandments, an angel?

NewJerusalem · Dec 24, 2009

truthseeker1976 said:

He IS God... but yes... the English word angel could possibly be used in a sense, but really i guess I would ask why, instead of simply referring to Him as The Spirit or Holy Spirit, etc? In what context would one need refer to Him as an angel?

I would not go as far to call Him a specific angel, such as Michael or Gabriel however.

truthseeker1976 · Dec 24, 2009

NewJerusalem said:

I can understand that. I will admit that whether he is Gabriel or Michael, I am still studying scripture and everyday I learn something new and fascinating. But if we put the Holy Spirit in it's proper perspectus, then we will have a better view of who God is and who is considered God. In the Old testament the angel of the Lord spoke as if he was God himself. But he wasn't God, he simply carried the name of God. He spoke not of himself but what God told him to. So to offend him would be to offend God himself. This was His representative on earth. The same principle applies to the Holy Spirit. In the new testament the Spirit speaks as though he was Jesus himself. Not that he is Jesus but that he has the name of Jesus in him. Jesus came in His Father's name. So to offend this angel or Spirit is to offend Jesus. And to offend Jesus is to offend the Father as the seal of both the names of the Father and the Son is in this Spirit. He speaks for God. It's the same protocol. And If we understand the Spirit for what he truly is then we can begin to worship in truth!

Lifelike · Dec 24, 2009

truthseeker1976 said:

My point exactly, the bible is not to be understood by private interpretation, but by the illumination of the Holy Spirit, we are the Body of Christ which houses His Spirit, u are a branch not attached to the vine, not a good thing to be. This is my last post on this subject, your not a Christian truthseeker, I'm not even sure what u are. But I do hope you find salvation or return to God (which is synonomous with returning to his body) cause that's where His favour is. Outside there is only darkness
and no hope.
Now unsubscribing from this post, all the best every1 ;D

truthseeker1976 · Dec 24, 2009

Lifelike said:

If this spirit is telling you that he is God then you really need to try that spirit. Even Satan passes himself off as an angel of light. He is also the angel that wants to be God! I give you scripture you refuse to meditate on, but I understand: 2 thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

songster · Dec 24, 2009

I believe I will unsubscribe as well.

Titus 3:10 ... a man that is a heretic, warn twice, after that, reject ; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sins, being condemned by himself...

truthseeker1976 · Dec 24, 2009

songster said:

You fail to realize who this is referring to. Enjoy your journey

charisenexcelcis · Dec 24, 2009

The combination of this thread and your thread on the Sabbath concerns me. In the sabbath thread you argue that while Jesus was in existance from all eternity, He was not one with the Father until His incarnation. Similarly, in this thread you propose that the Holy Spirit is an angel, not just in the sense of being a messenger, but in a manner that denies His diety. I fear that you are going down a path that is guided by speculation rather than Truth.

Thaddaeus · Dec 24, 2009

as I have said earier God can manifest Himself to what ever He wants to , Be the Holy Spirt Is a Spirit Not an Angel, If He was an angel the He would be call the Holy angel Not the Holy Spirit

truthseeker1976 · Dec 25, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

Hebrews 1:13-14
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14Are they not all ministering SPIRITS, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Now on that not, let me simplify what my meaning is. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE

Jesus' words are spirit and life. This is the Holy Spirit that he sends but the messenger has and always will be an angel.

Thaddaeus · Dec 26, 2009

truthseeker1976 said:

pull my hair out and call me a hippie, John the Baptist was a messenger But he was no angel, just because an angel was used as a messenger does not make all messengers angels WOW, I can sit in a garage but that does not make me a car, I can be a member of a christian church , but that does not make me a christian, according to my Bible search the word messenger occures 96 times in the old testament I looked at the first ten or so and none were referring to an angel but messengers sent by Saul and David and Kings you are taking a few places in the Bible and basing your definition of a word , wrongly and making a false teaching out of that also , Shame on you!

ozell · Dec 26, 2009

truthseeker1976 said:

I don't want everyone to think I'm crazy, but in my readings and searching out in scripture, I've come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit is an angel. Please take a look at the scripture I present as I welcome all comments and replies. After all, we are all here to grow in Christ!

Let's start in Ex.3:2-6) And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
We see the angel of the Lord in the burning bush and God calling moses out of it. Although this is an angel, he spoke as GOD!
Now let's dig deeper. Ex.23:20-23)
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
22But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. 23For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Now we see that after Israel left Egypt, God sends an Angel to KEEP THEE IN THE WAY, AND TO BRING THEE INTO THE PLACE WHICH I HAVE PREPARED. God tells them to beware of him and obey his voice. the voice of the angel. Provoke him not, for he(the angel) will not pardon your transgressions! But how is an angel able to do this? "FOR MY(GOD'S) NAME IS IN HIM!" God then goes on to say that if they obey his( the angel's) voice and do all that I(God) speak, then God will be an enemy unto their enemies.You should know that Israel rebelled. Is:63:9-10) In all their affliction he(God) was afflicted, and the angel of his(God's) presence saved them: in his(God's) love and in his(God's) pity he(God') redeemed them; and he(God) bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10But they rebelled, and vexed his(God's) holy Spirit: therefore he(God) was turned to be their enemy, and he(God) fought against them.
Now we have 3 titles for the angel that God sent. "The angel of the Lord," The angel of His Presence," and His "Holy spirit!" One might think that this isn't refering to an angel because only God is Holy. But what were we told in Exodus at the burning bush. The angel told moses to take off his shoes because the ground he stood on was holy ground. This angel also spoke as if he was God. Why? Because God's name is in him! Besides, don't forget that angels are ministering SPIRITS! So Israel rebelled against His Angel. They did not obey his voice. So how did God turn to be their enemy?
Judges 2:1-4)
And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

2And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? 3Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
How did Israel rebel towards the angel's voice? BY MAKING COVENENTS WITH THE INHABITANTS OF THE LAND AND BY NOT THROWING DOWN THEIR ALTARS! So how was God turned to be an enemy of Israel? By NOT driving them out of the land and having them as THORNS in their sides; THERE GODS SHALL BE A SNARE UNTO YOU.
Each time the angel spoke it was as if he was God himself! Let's go to the new testament.
Luke1:11-13 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.

12And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
18-20 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. 20And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.
SO NOW WE HAVE A NAME FOR THIS ANGEL! We see that Gabriel STANDS IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. We also see that because Zacharias didn't believe his WORDS(voice), he was made dumb and unable to speak. Why? Because just as Israel did in the wilderness, he did not hearken onto the SPIRIT OF TRUTH!
Nehemiah 9:18 Yea, when they had made them a molten calf, and said, This is thy God that brought thee up out of Egypt, and had wrought great provocations;

19Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go. 20THOU GAVEST ALSO THY GOOD SPIRIT TO INSTRUCT THEM, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst.
Gabriel's purpose is to instruct us in truth!
Daniel 8:15-16 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. Once again Gabriel is instructing or teaching. So how was Daniel able to recieve the truth?
Daniel 9:20-23 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
He as we should also, kept the commandments!
Gabriel's job is to lead us and guide us into all truth.
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. Gabriel never shows on his own but is always sent by God.
30-31 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
John 14:15-17 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
24-26 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Just as in Daniel when he kept the commandments, Gabriel was sent to him to instruct him. Now Jesus states that if we keep the commandments, He will send another Comforter, that he may abide with us forever. There was no need for gabriel to be sent at this point because the TRUE LIGHT was sent into the world. And just as the angel had YHWH'S name in him when he was sent, so much more when Jesus states that He comes in His Father's Name!
Before Jesus came the Spirit or angel spoke not of himself, but whatever he was told by YHWH. So now we can get a better understanding of 1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Does this point to the trinity? No! John then states the meaning of the context of this verse with heaven's Physical counterpart:
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three AGREE IN ONE. The Father The Son(Word) and the Spirit(angel) are in AGREEMENT! OF ONE PURPOSE! John isn't hinting at a trinity, he's giving us a protocol. This same protocol is in Rev.1-1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED IT BY HIS ANGEL unto his servant John:
What happened to the Holy ghost. He's still there. He's the angel!
:10 He that believeth on the Son(Word) of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son(Word).
Who sent record of God's word to man? THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD, THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, OR BY HIS PROPER NAME....GABRIEL! This is the same one Rev 2:11 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Remember 1John 5:7? This is the protocol!
Rev. 2-11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. We agree that it was the Holy Spirit that spoke to the the churches. But from there we seperate when one chooses to once again MAKE A COVENANT WITH THE INHABITANTS OF THE LAND; NOT THROWING DOWN THEIR ALTARS! So again what does God do? He does NOT throw them out of the land and has become a THORN in their side. THEIR GODS SHALL BE A SNARE! I choose to obey the voice of the Spirit. Rev.22:16
I Jesus have sent mine ANGEL TO TESTIFY UNTO YOU THESE THINGS IN THE CHURCHES. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Good morning

excellent observation

The HS is angel according to the word of God.

1John 5......... THE ANGEL OF HIS PRESENCE, THE ANGEL OF THE LORD

19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am

we have the Gabriel the angel in the presence of the Father and Jesus.

truthseeker1976 · Dec 26, 2009

ozell said:

Nice to find someone who who doesn't approach scriptures with a preconceived idea taught by man made doctrines.
What do you think of the Sabbath?

truthseeker1976 · Dec 26, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

Jeremiah 7: 4
Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, The temple of the LORD, are THESE.

(I wonder why that stament is repeated THREE TIMES!)

ozell · Dec 26, 2009

truthseeker1976 said:

I'll let the bible speak

God commanded us to keep the sabbath

Ex 20v 1: And God spake all these words, saying,
8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Ezek 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Ezek 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

one law for all

Ex 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Num 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Jesus kept the sabbath

Lk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

long after Jesus death and resurrection Paul kept the sabbath

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

IT must be kept!

truthseeker1976 · Dec 26, 2009

ozell said:

I'll let the bible speak

God commanded us to keep the sabbath

Ex 20v 1: And God spake all these words, saying,
8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Ezek 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Ezek 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

one law for all

Ex 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Num 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Jesus kept the sabbath

Lk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

long after Jesus death and resurrection Paul kept the sabbath

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

IT must be kept!

I totally agree. It MUST be kept! But how? read my post in the thread you started. You seem sincere and humble enough to atleast check what I've posted to scripture instead of having eyes to see, but don't see; and having ears to hear, but don't hear.

ozell · Dec 27, 2009

truthseeker1976 said:

God's sabbath must be kept the way he commanded.

I'll check.

keep it Holy.

charisenexcelcis · Dec 27, 2009

ozell said:

I've heard of this. I think it is called imprinting. lol.

ozell · Jan 2, 2010

charisenexcelcis said:

what have you heard of?

please explain.

THE HOLY SPIRIT IS AN ANGEL!?!?

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