The Keys to the Kingdom

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
113
#1
After listening to Peter on the Day of Pentecost and believing that Jesus was the messiah whom was crucified, those present were upset and asked what they must do.

Peter DID NOT say, “Nothing else needed. You believe the message of the messiah. You are good to go." Rather, Peter gave instructions that everyone must follow after believing in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ:

Acts 2:36-37
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Same message repeated to the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-48) and the Samaritans (Acts 8:12; 14-17)

Who did Jesus say would be given the keys (plural) of the kingdom?:
""And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:" Matt 16:16-19
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
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#2
Thought the following excerpt from gotquestions.org included some good information about the Keys to the Kingdom:

"The concept of “binding and loosing” is taught in the Bible in Matthew 16:19: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” In this verse, Jesus is speaking directly to the apostle Peter and indirectly to the other apostles. Jesus' words meant that Peter would have the right to enter the kingdom himself, that he would have general authority symbolized by the possession of the keys, and that preaching the gospel would be the means of opening the kingdom of heaven to all believers and shutting it against unbelievers. The book of Acts shows us this process at work. By his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:14-40), Peter opened the door of the kingdom for the first time...”

It’s not that the apostles were given the privilege of changing God’s mind, as if whatever they decided on earth would be duplicated in heaven; rather, they were encouraged that, as they moved forward in their apostolic duties, they would be fulfilling God’s plan in heaven. When the apostles “bound” something, or forbade it on earth, they were carrying out the will of God in the matter. When they “loosed” something, or allowed it on earth, they were likewise fulfilling God’s eternal plan. In both Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, the syntax of the Greek text makes the meaning clear: “Whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens” (Matthew 16:19, Young’s Literal Translation). Or, as the Amplified Bible puts it, “Whatever you bind [forbid, declare to be improper and unlawful] on earth will have [already] been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose [permit, declare lawful] on earth will have [already] been loosed in heaven.”
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,631
547
113
#3
That is the Gospel message, repent, baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and that promise is for all who are in the future.

For the Gospel message is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

And Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were all baptized in Jesus' name, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again in Jesus' name.

And Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, for the Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and Jesus said He came in the Father's name, and the Son inherited the name from the Father, and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit, and speaks of the flood, and 8 people were saved, and so baptism in water also does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God, and if we are buried with Christ, planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall also rise to newness of life with Him.

Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and preached the first message to get the Church started, and is the first person added to the Church after Jesus Christ, who is the chief cornerstone.

It is strange why some people cannot take the word of God for what it states instead of giving an alternate message, but that is because they have a belief that is not of the Bible, and interpret according to that.

We have to identify with the man Christ Jesus, which He died, we repent and die out to sin, and He was buried, and we are baptized in water, and He rose from the dead, and we receive the Spirit and rise to newness of life.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
113
#4
That is the Gospel message, repent, baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and that promise is for all who are in the future.

For the Gospel message is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

And Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were all baptized in Jesus' name, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again in Jesus' name.

And Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, for the Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and Jesus said He came in the Father's name, and the Son inherited the name from the Father, and the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit, and speaks of the flood, and 8 people were saved, and so baptism in water also does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God, and if we are buried with Christ, planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall also rise to newness of life with Him.

Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and preached the first message to get the Church started, and is the first person added to the Church after Jesus Christ, who is the chief cornerstone.

It is strange why some people cannot take the word of God for what it states instead of giving an alternate message, but that is because they have a belief that is not of the Bible, and interpret according to that.

We have to identify with the man Christ Jesus, which He died, we repent and die out to sin, and He was buried, and we are baptized in water, and He rose from the dead, and we receive the Spirit and rise to newness of life.
Totally agree.

The Word is the final authority and that is what each one will be judged by. (John 12:48)

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism INTO death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)


"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" Col 2:12-14
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,473
2,289
113
#5
It is Holy Spirit baptism that quickens us not water baptism. Water baptism cannot save but the baptism of the Holy Spirit administered by Christ that saves.

Eph 1: 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1: 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 2: 1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Water is for obedience Holy Spirit is for life in Christ. Life made possible by the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
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#7
You are obviously wrong about the OT and the NT things but about resurrection, what do we do with this part of the scripture?

Matt 27:50When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. 51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
It clearly says Jesus resurrected that very moment that He died.

The following is in response to your comment above:

When studying whether the thief on the cross died under the OT dispensation or the NT dispensation one must consider when the NT began.

God’s Word is specific regarding what makes it possible for the NT church to be reborn spiritually. Without the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, rebirth was impossible for the NT church.

The record in Matthew 27:53 was brought up as evidence that the thief on the cross died after Jesus died and was resurrected, thus it would seem the thief died after the NT began. Upon studying the scripture verses it is clear that this is not the case.

One knows that evidence of an established concept requires 2-3 other scripture verses that comply with one another. Knowing that there are many scriptures that indicate Jesus Christ resurrected 3 days after His death is the first clue. (Mark 8:31; John 2:19; Matt. 12:40)

So due to other scripture verses debunking what one thinks Matt 27:53 portrays the error has to be in one’s understanding of that particular scripture verse.

Matt 27:50-53
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection,

Upon reading the above scripture verses it is clear that after Jesus’ crucifixion the graves broke open due to the earthquake. It goes on to say the bodies of the saints rose and came out of the graves after His resurrection. The bodies could not have been raised until Jesus was raised. The conclusion is that the events happened but not at the exact time of Jesus’ death.

Notice also that the scripture is giving a list of things that happened. This is evidenced by each event being following by a semi colon. Even though punctuation was not in the original text the translators understood the content was a list of things that happened after the crucifixion.

Additional scripture verses confirm the conclusion:

Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Cor 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Col 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Thank you for mentioning the scripture. I enjoy studying and learning something new from God's word.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Be Blessed!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#8
You are obviously wrong about the OT and the NT things but about resurrection, what do we do with this part of the scripture?

Matt 27:50When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. 51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
It clearly says Jesus resurrected that very moment that He died.

The following is in response to your comment above:

When studying whether the thief on the cross died under the OT dispensation or the NT dispensation one must consider when the NT began.

God’s Word is specific regarding what makes it possible for the NT church to be reborn spiritually. Without the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, rebirth was impossible for the NT church.

The record in Matthew 27:53 was brought up as evidence that the thief on the cross died after Jesus died and was resurrected, thus it would seem the thief died after the NT began. Upon studying the scripture verses it is clear that this is not the case.

One knows that evidence of an established concept requires 2-3 other scripture verses that comply with one another. Knowing that there are many scriptures that indicate Jesus Christ resurrected 3 days after His death is the first clue. (Mark 8:31; John 2:19; Matt. 12:40)

So due to other scripture verses debunking what one thinks Matt 27:53 portrays the error has to be in one’s understanding of that particular scripture verse.

Matt 27:50-53
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection,

Upon reading the above scripture verses it is clear that after Jesus’ crucifixion the graves broke open due to the earthquake. It goes on to say the bodies of the saints rose and came out of the graves after His resurrection. The bodies could not have been raised until Jesus was raised. The conclusion is that the events happened but not at the exact time of Jesus’ death.

Notice also that the scripture is giving a list of things that happened. This is evidenced by each event being following by a semi colon. Even though punctuation was not in the original text the translators understood the content was a list of things that happened after the crucifixion.

Additional scripture verses confirm the conclusion:

Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Cor 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Col 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Thank you for mentioning the scripture. I enjoy studying and learning something new from God's word.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Be Blessed!
I've seen some of your posts but i didn't realize you are this funny. I will surely respond.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,846
5,757
113
#9
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:" Matt 16:16-19
Christ had already said that no man can see or enter the Kingdom of God (Heaven) without the New Birth (being born again). Peter tells us that it is the Gospel -- the Word of God -- which is the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth (1 Pet 1:23-25).

Therefore the keys (plural) of the Kingdom of Heaven are (1) the preaching of the Gospel by Peter first to the Jews at Pentecost and (2) the preaching of the Gospel by Peter to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius (shortly thereafter). We know that Peter was extremely reluctant to go to the Gentiles, but finally he did, and God showed him that the Kingdom was to be entered by both Jews and Gentiles through the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
113
#10
I've seen some of your posts but i didn't realize you are this funny. I will surely respond.
The only way one can be assured that what they perceive as true, of a particular scripture, is when the context of 2 or 3 scriptures lines up with the scripture in question. This principle is what confirms one's understanding is correct.

As stated, there are numerous scriptures, not just the three quoted, they give proof that Jesus resurrected after being in the grave for three days. This cannot be disputed.

Interesting that you think coming to that conclusion is funny.
 
Mar 14, 2011
71,322
15,615
113
#11
I fear for all the people who will stand in front of christ on that fate-full day crying out they did these works in jesus name, only to hear jesus say depart from me, for I never knew you.

Its sad.

Paul said it best his letter to titus when he proclaimed,

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (water baptism is a work of righteousness, because it is a work of obedience to God, which is a righteous act) which WE HAVE DONE, but BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the WASHING (Baptism) and RENEWAL (new birth) Of the HOLY SPIRIT (not pastor)

I fear for all these people adding works to the gospel. How do they think they are any different that the judiazers who added works to the gospel. And was condemned by Paul? All we can do is pray God opens their hearts. Before its too late
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
113
#12
I fear for all the people who will stand in front of christ on that fate-full day crying out they did these works in jesus name, only to hear jesus say depart from me, for I never knew you.

Its sad.

Paul said it best his letter to titus when he proclaimed,

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (water baptism is a work of righteousness, because it is a work of obedience to God, which is a righteous act) which WE HAVE DONE, but BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the WASHING (Baptism) and RENEWAL (new birth) Of the HOLY SPIRIT (not pastor)

I fear for all these people adding works to the gospel. How do they think they are any different that the judiazers who added works to the gospel. And was condemned by Paul? All we can do is pray God opens their hearts. Before its too late
In the beginning of your comment you reference scripture content that has nothing to do with water baptism:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23

As far as the scripture in Titus is concerned,
Verse 3 Paul shows unredeemed man lacked righteousness by outlining man's carnal nature.
Verse 4-5 states it was because of God's kindness and love (grace), not man's behavior, but according to His mercy God saves us.
How? BY the washing of regeneration (water baptism) and the renewing of the Holy Ghost (Holy Ghost baptism).
Verse 6 God provided washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost to us because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 6:4)
Verse 7 states that because of God's grace we should be made heirs. Should be, means it is available. Whether one receives it is dependent upon their willingness to be obedient.

Titus 3:3-7
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#13
You are obviously wrong about the OT and the NT things but about resurrection, what do we do with this part of the scripture?

Matt 27:50When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit. 51At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
It clearly says Jesus resurrected that very moment that He died.

The following is in response to your comment above:

When studying whether the thief on the cross died under the OT dispensation or the NT dispensation one must consider when the NT began.

God’s Word is specific regarding what makes it possible for the NT church to be reborn spiritually. Without the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, rebirth was impossible for the NT church.

The record in Matthew 27:53 was brought up as evidence that the thief on the cross died after Jesus died and was resurrected, thus it would seem the thief died after the NT began. Upon studying the scripture verses it is clear that this is not the case.

One knows that evidence of an established concept requires 2-3 other scripture verses that comply with one another. Knowing that there are many scriptures that indicate Jesus Christ resurrected 3 days after His death is the first clue. (Mark 8:31; John 2:19; Matt. 12:40)

So due to other scripture verses debunking what one thinks Matt 27:53 portrays the error has to be in one’s understanding of that particular scripture verse.

Matt 27:50-53
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection,

Upon reading the above scripture verses it is clear that after Jesus’ crucifixion the graves broke open due to the earthquake. It goes on to say the bodies of the saints rose and came out of the graves after His resurrection. The bodies could not have been raised until Jesus was raised. The conclusion is that the events happened but not at the exact time of Jesus’ death.

Notice also that the scripture is giving a list of things that happened. This is evidenced by each event being following by a semi colon. Even though punctuation was not in the original text the translators understood the content was a list of things that happened after the crucifixion.

Additional scripture verses confirm the conclusion:

Acts 26:23
That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Cor 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Col 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Rev 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Thank you for mentioning the scripture. I enjoy studying and learning something new from God's word.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Be Blessed!
You have debunked your own position but i guess you are not aware. All those scriptures that you think support your position; non says Jesus exclusively resurrected after 3 days, they simply mean that Jesus was the first to resurrect- so they don't contradict Matt 27 which says Jesus resurrected first and then the saints.

1. Resurrection is of the spirit and not of the body.

I know i know, Jesus resurrected bodily after 3 days but that was in fulfillment of prophesy but also as a sign so that people may believe in the gospel. Spiritual resurrection is not a visible thing yet it is the main thing. If Jesus had only resurrected spiritually, how would the gospel be preached? if the apostles were to tell someone about resurrection, they'd have rejected that notion and pointed at his rotten body in the tomb making the gospel to be of no effect.

Even the OT saints that were resurrected and some people claimed to have seen them; it was their spiritual body because they were never reported to have died again or ascended upwards and no one knows what happened to them. Plus, they lived 500- 3000 years before that generation so no one could categorically tell or identify them because they wouldn't know.

2. Scriptures don't contradict.
Matt 27, clearly says Jesus resurrected, not after three days but immediately after His death. It says at that very moment, several things happened; the veil in the temple was split, there was an earth quake, tombs of the saints opened and there was resurrection after Jesus had resurrected, there was darkness and one soldier had to say "..truly he was the son of God..". Non of these happened three days after His death.

3. Jesus promised the thief on the cross paradise that night.
Knowing their time system, night or evening started at 3pm, the very time Jesus died. So, essentially, Jesus promised that thief paradise that very moment, within that hour as soon as the thief died. Not not not three days later.
Jesus precisely said, "...you will walk with me in paradise tonight..." (not exact words but close).

What Jesus never meant was, "..you'll walk with me in the tomb tonight and two more.."

4. 2-3 verses that support Jesus' immediate resurrection:

John 11: 25Jesus said to her,“I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”…

John 5: 24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not comeunder judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.

It is a transition. in the twinkling of an eye.
Plus many other verses that talk of Jesus being life or full of life. If someone is full of life, death can not trump them, not for a second, they overcome death.
 
Mar 14, 2011
71,322
15,615
113
#14
In the beginning of your comment you reference scripture content that has nothing to do with water baptism:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23

As far as the scripture in Titus is concerned,
Verse 3 Paul shows unredeemed man lacked righteousness by outlining man's carnal nature.
Verse 4-5 states it was because of God's kindness and love (grace), not man's behavior, but according to His mercy God saves us.
How? BY the washing of regeneration (water baptism) and the renewing of the Holy Ghost (Holy Ghost baptism).
Verse 6 God provided washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost to us because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 6:4)
Verse 7 states that because of God's grace we should be made heirs. Should be, means it is available. Whether one receives it is dependent upon their willingness to be obedient.

Titus 3:3-7
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
Keep trying dude, Your as hard as the jews who were insisting men had to be circumcized to be saved. Thats why Paul told us plainly we were spiritually circumcized by the hand of God. Through baptism of the holy spirit.

What saved us was the blood of the cross. It has washed us white as snow.

As for what jesus said, it goes for ANY WORK.

Paul said NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, He did not say except for the work of water baptism. And he specifially mentioned the baptism of the spirit.

Rom 6 is spirit baptism. No water can immerse you into christ his death or his burial. ONLY God can do this.

The pharisee tried to say God did his miracles by satan, Your saying we are washed by man. Both are saying the work of the HS is attributed to someone other than him, What did jesus say the danger of that was?

Yes. You should be scared my friend.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,973
528
113
#15
Keep trying dude, Your as hard as the jews who were insisting men had to be circumcized to be saved. Thats why Paul told us plainly we were spiritually circumcized by the hand of God. Through baptism of the holy spirit.

What saved us was the blood of the cross. It has washed us white as snow.

As for what jesus said, it goes for ANY WORK.

Paul said NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, He did not say except for the work of water baptism. And he specifially mentioned the baptism of the spirit.

Rom 6 is spirit baptism. No water can immerse you into christ his death or his burial. ONLY God can do this.

The pharisee tried to say God did his miracles by satan, Your saying we are washed by man. Both are saying the work of the HS is attributed to someone other than him, What did jesus say the danger of that was?

Yes. You should be scared my friend.
We just see the word differently.

Numerous scriptural references instruct, and include peoples obedience to the instructions given regarding repentance, water and Holy Ghost baptisms.

I am serious when I ask, please show me scriptures where water baptism was done away with.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#16
We just see the word differently.

Numerous scriptural references instruct, and include peoples obedience to the instructions given regarding repentance, water and Holy Ghost baptisms.

I am serious when I ask, please show me scriptures where water baptism was done away with.
Water baptism was not done away with, you can swim all day if you want but its importance or function as we know from the scripture, is long gone:

John 1:
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’ 31I myself did not know Him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel.”

32Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and testified that this is the Sone of God.”

The reason for water baptism;
1. It was a function that brought people so that Messiah may be revealed.
The people who are water baptizing today are only keeping clean not identifying the Messiah because we know who He is already.

2. It was foreshadowing of the one who was to baptize with the Holy spirit
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#17
John had a reason to baptize with water, what's your reason?
 
Mar 14, 2011
71,322
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#18
We just see the word differently.

Numerous scriptural references instruct, and include peoples obedience to the instructions given regarding repentance, water and Holy Ghost baptisms.

I am serious when I ask, please show me scriptures where water baptism was done away with.
Yeah we do

You see where man has to work to earn his salvation through the works you think you have to offer.

I see where God said it is finished. And I must repent and give my eternity to him after becoming poor in spirit wiht nothing to offer, and he will give me eternal life. Through HIS spiritual cleansing. And the works I offer are BECAUSE he saved me, not in order to HELP him save me.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
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#19
I fear for all the people who will stand in front of christ on that fate-full day crying out they did these works in jesus name, only to hear jesus say depart from me, for I never knew you.

Its sad.

Paul said it best his letter to titus when he proclaimed,

NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (water baptism is a work of righteousness, because it is a work of obedience to God, which is a righteous act) which WE HAVE DONE, but BY HIS MERCY HE SAVED US, by the WASHING (Baptism) and RENEWAL (new birth) Of the HOLY SPIRIT (not pastor)

I fear for all these people adding works to the gospel. How do they think they are any different that the judiazers who added works to the gospel. And was condemned by Paul? All we can do is pray God opens their hearts. Before its too late
yes. baptism in water is a work its confirmed by Jesus. Jesus said to st.john that 'allow me to fulfill all righteousness' by getting baptized by john the baptist.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
5,405
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#20
In the beginning of your comment you reference scripture content that has nothing to do with water baptism:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23

As far as the scripture in Titus is concerned,
Verse 3 Paul shows unredeemed man lacked righteousness by outlining man's carnal nature.
Verse 4-5 states it was because of God's kindness and love (grace), not man's behavior, but according to His mercy God saves us.
How? BY the washing of regeneration (water baptism) and the renewing of the Holy Ghost (Holy Ghost baptism).
Verse 6 God provided washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost to us because of Jesus' sacrifice (Romans 6:4)
Verse 7 states that because of God's grace we should be made heirs. Should be, means it is available. Whether one receives it is dependent upon their willingness to be obedient.

Titus 3:3-7
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
What say you to RC water baptism? Saved or not?