The "Man of Sin" Prophecies

[Yahshua]

There may have been threads like this already but I think it may be helpful for us to post - in list form - the prophecies in scripture that support who the "man of sin" was/is/will be (depending on your position whether preterist, historicist, futurist) while providing the identity of that man (or your best guess as to what type of man it'll be or where he'll come from).

I don't expect this thread to be too large seeing as there are probably only three points of view matching the three positions, but I think it'll help to see where certain members are coming from in other threads.

I was a futurist during my childhood and then became a historicist as an adult, and I've never been a preterist, so if others could provide the preterist and futurist lists (respectively) I'd appreciate it.

My intent for this thread is to provide passages to study and consider for each position.

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Daniel 7
- Is a different kingdom that rises after 10 smaller kingdoms
- Uproots 3 of those kingdoms
- Speaks pompous words against the Almighty
- Try to change the Almighty's times and laws
- Will conquer the Almighty's people for a "time, times, 1/2 time" (1260 days)

Daniel 11
- Will not regard the god of his fathers or any god
- Will not desire women
- Will honor the "god of fortresses" with wealth
- Will attack many governments with this "fortress god"
- Will give rule to those who acknowledge him
- Will divide land at a price
- Will fight a "southern king"
- Will invade Jerusalem
- Authority will cover many countries and he'll gain great wealth

2 Thessalonians 2
- Places himself above all gods
- Calls himself God
- Will be destroyed by Messiah's brightness
- Gained authority from satan to work lying miracles
- He is restrained until "another power" is taken out of his way

Revelation 13
- Will receive a deadly wound but will be healed
- All the world will marvel at him
- Will be in power for 42 months (1260 days)
- Another king will take his power


As a historicist, I believe this "man of sin" was and is the office of The Papacy, as it:

- Is a unique State (The Vatican; even has its own army) that rose out of the 10 kingdoms after the Roman empire (which is the 4th beast and 2 legs of iron of Daniel)

- Uprooted the Heruli, Ostrogoths, and Vandals by the year 538 AD

- Speaks pompous words like "The pope is christ vicariously" and "The pope holds the place of God on earth"

- Established the Gregorian calendar (time), set midnight as the new day (time), changed the day of rest to Sunday (law), changed 2nd & 10th commandments (law). and established new holidays (time & law).

- Initiated the Inquisition through Papal Bull (Dum Diversas), authorizing the hunting, torture & enslavement of "heretics".

- Ruled from 538 AD to 1798 AD (1260 years) until exiled by the French.

- Takes a vow of celibacy

- Honors the statue of Cybele, the goddess of fortresses - also known as Ishtar - which was renamed "Blessed Mary, the queen of heaven". She literally has a fortress as her crown.

- Installed kings who conquered lands and nations in his name

- Was in constant battles with Saracens (from the south) and Ottoman Turks who fought in the name of allah (king of the south) and Islam.

Bonus: By the way, a tabernacle ("Dome of the Rock") was literally established on the temple mount, fulfilling Daniel 11:45 for a tabernacle to be planted on the holy mountain between the seas. The "Dome of the Rock" is Roman/Byzantine architecture, not Islamic.

- Invaded the holy land to take it from Muslims during The Crusades

- Has gained vast wealth and would rule over many countries of Europe

- Gained its power from the Roman Emperor.

- Presents "miracles" to the world from Mary and saints.

- Was restrained in power until Pagan Rome was conquered and taken out of the way. Paul wouldn't need to be cryptic about the Holy Spirit if that is Who was restraining the "man of sin", he would just speak plainly as he has about the Holy Spirit in many other letters. But Rome was still in power at the time of his letter, and there's no telling who would read his letter before it reached his intended audience...especially if he was in custody.

- Was said to have had it's "wound healed" when the papacy's temporal power was restored in the Lateran Concordat of 1929

- Hasn't restored itself to its former level of power and leadership in the world because another world-leading power has currently taken over that role.

- Has many people wondering after him in awe (no matter who sits in the office), seeking an audience with him or a blessing from him

----

So historically, the office of the papacy checks all the boxes for me. And I believe it will not be destroyed until the Messiah comes to burn it away with the brightness of His coming.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Will be in power for 42 months (1260 days)

This throughly refutes the papacy (or the pope) as being the Man of Sin.

The papacy has been around for about 1700 years. Multiply that by months and you have 20,400 months. (The Catholics would take it all the way back to the apostle Peter but that is false).

That 3 1/2 year period is obviously in the future.

 

[Blain]

hmm... well honestly I don't think I have an exact stand in this one, maybe a futerist? I did watch a documentary about this subject though and some people believe that it is all three views, that there are three in total and the first two being a person I can't remember but he won a war leaving absolute bloodshed behind him then there was hitler and there is a future one who is the final and most deadly man of sin.

However identifying who it is is basically impossible in fact I bet the antichrist doesn't even know himself who he really is until the time comes

 

[Yahshua]

This throughly refutes the papacy (or the pope) as being the Man of Sin.

The papacy has been around for about 1700 years. Multiply that by months and you have 20,400 months. (The Catholics would take it all the way back to the apostle Peter but that is false).

That 3 1/2 year period is obviously in the future.

Not sure that's as "thorough" as you'd hope, Nehemiah. But would you like to help me out with a futurist's post then, per my request in the OP?

 

[Yahshua]

hmm... well honestly I don't think I have an exact stand in this one, maybe a futerist? I did watch a documentary about this subject though and some people believe that it is all three views, that there are three in total and the first two being a person I can't remember but he won a war leaving absolute bloodshed behind him then there was hitler and there is a future one who is the final and most deadly man of sin.

However identifying who it is is basically impossible in fact I bet the antichrist doesn't even know himself who he really is until the time comes

I understand, Blain. Would you still happen to have a link to this documentary or remember its name? I'd be interested to check it out.

 

[Blain]

I understand, Blain. Would you still happen to have a link to this documentary or remember its name? I'd be interested to check it out.

It was on hulu I can try to find it again if you want

 

[Yahshua]

It was on hulu I can try to find it again if you want

No don't go out of your way. If you happen to remember it then let me know. I don't have Hulu but it may be elsewhere.

 

[Blain]

No don't go out of your way. If you happen to remember it then let me know. I don't have Hulu but it may be elsewhere.

Oh I see well it may be on youtube as well so if i remember the name maybe try there

 

[MattforJesus]

Daniel 7.

Daniel had a vision of 4 kingdoms that operated differently than each other which are the 4 ways of people, and even though each one went by all 4 ways, one of those ways was their chief mode of operation, and the other 3 was a minor mode of operation.

The first was like a lion, Babylon, which represents human religion, the occult, and had the revelation of God but lost it and became known as the kingdom of man.

The second was like a bear, which is Medo-Persia, and represent cruelty in war.

The third was like a leopard, Greece, and represents human wisdom.

The fourth was like iron, Roman Empire, and represents pushing for territory, dominion.

It had 10 horns which is in the future which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, which they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces, and the little horn, man of sin comes from the 10 horns.

3 sections of the world are plucked up by the roots, subdued, because the people of those 3 sections rebelled which is probably the Arab nations, but the Arab governments came together with the nations at the start of the 10 horn kingdom, and then the conflict came later.

The first three beasts will never have dominion again, but their ways are still on earth, and the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts them down.

So all 4 kingdoms have not fallen yet, for their ways are still on earth, and they do not fall until Jesus hits the feet of the image of a man, the 10 toes, 10 horns, then the image falls and all 4 kingdoms ways are no more.

And all 4 kingdoms chief mode of operation are at the beast kingdom in the future.

The 10 horns, physical dominion, Roman Empire.

With the ways of a lion, Babylon, human religion, the occult, kingdom of man.

With the ways of a bear, Medo-Persia, physical cruelty to go against everyone that opposes them.

With the ways of a leopard, Greece, human wisdom.

With no input from God for they acknowledge no personal God, the kingdom of man in it's entirety.

The man of sin shall think to change times and laws, which he will want to change the ways of God on earth to the ways of man, which he will cause the abomination of desolation in the future which he will spread his occult ways throughout the earth which will cause God to go against him and the world.

The saints will be given in to his hands for three and one half years the great tribulation.

Daniel 11.

The man of sin shall do according to his will, and arms shall stand on his part for America, Europe, and Russia all came together according to the plan of the new age movement which acknowledges no personal God, and believe they are still evolving to be greater and spiritual, so the main power of the world is controlled by the man of sin, the modern day weapons.

Although the nations came together the Roman Empire has the dominion, but it is more than Italy at that time, for Europe, America, and Russia were going along with this plan, and America pushes for peace in the world, and Russia was atheist, and evolution influenced them, and the New Age Christ started pushing the agenda of the new age movement in the world.

Why do you think America took prayer out of school and taught evolution, and the children are the future, so you know where that is headed according to the future, and Russia started allowing Christianity, to show that both sides are right.

America, religious, spiritual, belief in a higher power at their start, and then taught evolution.

Russia, athiest at their start, and then allowed Christianity.

New age movement, atheist, but spiritual, higher power the God of forces.

The Hegel System, the same as Republican and Democrat are also working together, 2 opposing forces that gets everyone involved for they will choose a side, cooperation of the 2 opposing force brings them all together.

On the back of the dollar bill, announcing the conception of a new order of the ages, and out of many, one.

The man of sin shall not regard the God of his fathers, and will not regard any god, for he will exalt himself above all.

He will have no desire of women which when the new age movement is popular in the world they will forbid to marry for population reduction, and the man of sin does not have a desire to chase women and be married, for he is only interested in learning about the occult, and ruling the world.

2 Thessalonians 2.

The saints will not be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God, which he will exalt himself above all that is called God, or is worshipped.

Which the falling away first is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel for when the nations came together they stopped the preaching of it in the world saying it is not true, and they want peace and division.

Which is what sparked the war between Islam and the world for they stopped the preaching of Islam and spreading it so they rebelled.

It is the time for God to end this sin business on earth, so He is allowing the man of sin to deceive all people who do not love Him, and when they follow God then salvation is no longer available to them, and God will put them down, and have His people with Him.

Which God will send them strong delusion to believe a lie and follow the New Age Christ for they did not love the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Revelation 13.

God will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him, so He is giving the world 7 years to have their way and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast.

For the first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world, so the saints are still on earth.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East, work as a great man of peace, push the new age movement in the world.

All Jews will be back on their land by way of that peace treaty for the New Age Christ wants them on their land, which he wants to claim to be their God and messiah in the future, but God means it for good towards the Jews which God said He would leave none of the Jews in the nations anymore.

The world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section as they try to establish peace on earth, and stop the preaching of anything taught contrary to the new age movement, for evolution is religion, and their spirituality and prosperity.

War between Islam and the world which a third of the world dies mainly in the Arab nations, 3 sections plucked up by the roots, subdued.

Which that war is so terrible that the 10 horn kingdom failed at providing peace, and the world is devastated and lost hope, and turn to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth.

In Revelation 12 and 13, the beast has 10 horns, and 7 heads, which the 10 horns is the physical dominion, and the 7 heads are the last 7 kingdoms, which are of the beast for the devil influenced those kingdoms, and the 8th king is the beast.

1. Egypt.
2. Assyria.
3. Babylon.
4. Medo-Persia.
5. Greece.
6. Roman Empire.
7. Ten horn kingdom.

In Revelation 12 the crowns are on the heads, Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people.

In Revelation 13 the crowns are on the horns, Satan in the physical realm deceiving people as the man of sin.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The beast's head as it were wounded to death is the 7th head, the 10 horn kingdom that failed at providing peace for the world, and the world was devastated and lost hope.

But the beast restored order, and gave them hope, and the deadly wound was healed, and convinced the world that he evolved through the power of nature to be greater and spiritual, having power over the elements that flesh and blood cannot defeat, and has the power to defeat his enemies, and the world said who is like unto the beast, and who can make war with him.

Which they believe Lucifer is a solar angel, an advanced being that eons ago descended from Venus to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man, and will cause them to evolve to be greater and spiritual, but the New Age Christ will be the greatest of them all and therefore God.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

When the man of sin is defeated the world will know that the New Age Christ was not at all powerful but just like them.

The Pope will not be the New Age Christ, but the Pope will be the spiritual leader of the new age movement giving over to that interpretation of the Bible, the second beast, the false prophet, but it will not be this Pope, and the Vatican the headquarters.

 

[Yahshua]

Daniel 7. [cut for space]

Thank you Matt for taking the time to share this detailed view of the "man of sin" as a future new age christ (and how you see the drama unfolding until his appearance). Interpreting the animals of Dan 7 as characteristics of mankind was intriguing.

So this is a futurist view. It's not one I've heard before when I was younger, as I remember something about it being a man from Russia traditionally but can't recall all the details of that. But I appreciate your contribution.

 

[Yahshua]

Ok so if no one else will provide their interpretation of characteristics or their best guess of who the "man of sin" was/is/will be or where he's from, that just leaves the preterist's view.

I'd appreciate it if someone could share that.

 

[MattforJesus]

Thank you Matt for taking the time to share this detailed view of the "man of sin" as a future new age christ (and how you see the drama unfolding until his appearance). Interpreting the animals of Dan 7 as characteristics of mankind was intriguing.

So this is a futurist view. It's not one I've heard before when I was younger, as I remember something about it being a man from Russia traditionally but can't recall all the details of that. But I appreciate your contribution.

The only thing that disappoints me is when I proofread my posts but not good enough.

and they want peace and division.

Which I meant to say peace and not division.

and when they follow God then salvation is no longer available to them

Which I meant to say when they follow him, the beast, then salvation is no longer available to them.

But I am sure people will know what I meant to write.

I see the man of sin as only being in the future.

And I do not know what nation he will come from, but he will be from the Roman Empire, which the Bible says he will come from the people that overthrew Jerusalem which is 70 A.D., the Roman Empire.

But the Roman Empire will be extended by that time, but he will be Caucasian.

And it would not be the Pope for he is a spiritual leader, but he claims the Bible which the Vatican and Pope will change when the New Age Christ works in the world before he claims to be God, and their viewpoint of the Bible will go along with the New Age Christ.

Which the man of sin is so arrogant that it would seem like he would not compete in the world for positions like political, religious leaders, business man, military, or any other exalting position, for he will believe he is above all that, and it is a cut down to himself to compete with common people, but is only going for the position of the New Age Christ as ruler of the world and there is no competition for that.

But the Vatican was probably infiltrated years ago to get people in there and change it from within, and get in the Cardinal positions and then elect the Pope of their choosing when the time is right, as well as try to change Europe, America, and Russia, governments, from within.

But who knows how long this plan was going on for it has to be implemented slowly in order for it to work.

Which they loved the counter culture movement for it produced more selfish, and arrogant people, and they started to go away from God, or become hypocritical, as the years went by which is what they wanted for they need that attitude.

Pro 30:11 There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
Pro 30:12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
Pro 30:13 There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
Pro 30:14 There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

God told us the attitude of the last generation of being highly selfish, and arrogant, and cannot have enough money, and will heap money to themselves and not care about the poor and needy, which technology caused that for it caused money to flow like a raging river, and they could reach out farther, and reach out to more people to make money, which we know millions of dollars and billions of dollars is not good enough for them.

Their attitude will eventually cause the beast kingdom to come about that is all about people, and no God, for as time goes on they get more selfish, and arrogant, and they drift farther from God.

And that high selfishness, and arrogance, causes them to not like each other as much which we see going on now as the attitude is people basically care about themselves with little regard for anyone else, so you do not care about me, I do not care about you, and it gets worse as time goes on, which we hear the children are not like they used to be, and talk about the old days when people acted better, and friendlier to each other like the 1950's.

Which Jesus said since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold, and Paul said evil men shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived, so eventually the attitude of the world will want to accept the man of sin and his ways that is about the exaltation of people.

I believe the man of sin can only be at the end time, for it is the time for God to end this sin business on earth, and God is using the man of sin to deceive all people that do not love Him to follow him, so God can put down the world.

And the man of sin will be the most sinful person that has ever lived on earth, and the man Christ Jesus the most sinless person that ever lived on earth.

And God is restraining the devil from having too much influence in the world, but when the attitude of the world is at it's worse and the nations stop the preaching of the Gospel for a certain amount of time then God will allow the man of sin to rule over them and the devil is off his leash concerning the wicked, and deceives all people that do not love God, and then God will put them down.

So the man of sin could not apply in the past but only the future.

And there has never been a person in history that will do what he will do that is against the ways of God, for all other leaders always fell short of causing the world to rebel against God until the man of sin.

Nero did not even come close, or any other leader they think was the man of sin in the past, or caused great persecution against the saints.

The man of sin will cause the world to rebel against God which He will put them down, and no other leader in the past caused that, and did not come close by a very long shot.

The man of sin will make Pharaoh look like he is still in the womb, make Nero look like a new born baby, make Hitler look like a one month old toddler crapping his diapers in the crib.

And evolution is the culprit, and technology caused them to be able to communicate with each other so that they came together according to the new age movement plan that was slowly implemented for many years.

Like a song played on the piano, and they said it is truth, but they changed one note and let that play for a while, and the people said it is truth, and then changed another note and let that play for a while, and the people said it is truth, until is became a whole new song, and the people say it is truth.

 

[biker]

- Honors the statue of Cybele, the goddess of fortresses - also known as Ishtar - which was renamed "Blessed Mary, the queen of heaven". She literally has a fortress as her crown.

Other names :
Inanna-Ishtar is alluded to in the Hebrew Bible and she greatly influenced the Phoenician goddess Astoreth, who later influenced the development of the Greek goddess Aphrodite.

I've studied this myself. However, I have concluded the "Man of Sin" is Demonic made, not human born. I do believe the Papacy will be involved, but as the "false Prophet." As for the literal Antichrist, I believe in order for the Jews to believe he will be their Messiah, he will have to be Semitic (Muslim/Hebrew/Jewish) naturalist.

 

[JeremiahsCup]

It's not the pope nor even for that matter any of the pagan religions currently existing in our time, because all of these go back to times ancient, the times of the fathers of the races. The man of sin and his religion will be new, the false god he venerates and creates an idol to will not be like anything known about today or in times ancient. Nevertheless, the true God shall destroy him and his idol after the time of indignation is fulfilled, praise Jesus.

Daniel 11:36-38

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

 

[Dave-L]

This throughly refutes the papacy (or the pope) as being the Man of Sin.

The papacy has been around for about 1700 years. Multiply that by months and you have 20,400 months. (The Catholics would take it all the way back to the apostle Peter but that is false).

That 3 1/2 year period is obviously in the future.

Years are symbols in Revelation. Not literal. Learn what they represent.

 

[Yahshua]

Other names :
Inanna-Ishtar is alluded to in the Hebrew Bible and she greatly influenced the Phoenician goddess Astoreth, who later influenced the development of the Greek goddess Aphrodite.

I've studied this myself. However, I have concluded the "Man of Sin" is Demonic made, not human born. I do believe the Papacy will be involved, but as the "false Prophet." As for the literal Antichrist, I believe in order for the Jews to believe he will be their Messiah, he will have to be Semitic (Muslim/Hebrew/Jewish) naturalist.

No problem. I appreciate your input. From a perspective, I would make sense for the pope to be the "false prophet". Thanks again.

 

[Yahshua]

It's not the pope nor even for that matter any of the pagan religions currently existing in our time, because all of these go back to times ancient, the times of the fathers of the races. The man of sin and his religion will be new, the false god he venerates and creates an idol to will not be like anything known about today or in times ancient. Nevertheless, the true God shall destroy him and his idol after the time of indignation is fulfilled, praise Jesus.

Daniel 11:36-38

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Ok, thank you. So then do you have a similar perspective as Matt regarding this new religion, as in, a "new age" religion (though not exactly what Matt believes)?

Most futurists believe that he will sit in a future temple at Jerusalem. But if the religion is not somehow tied to one of the Abrahamic religions I'd be hardpressed to think any of those currently in the land would be deceived enough to accept him as the Promised One...unless he's somehow tied to the land?

Either way, I appreciate your input.

 

[Yahshua]

The only thing that disappoints me is when I proofread my posts but not good enough.

and they want peace and division.

Which I meant to say peace and not division.

and when they follow God then salvation is no longer available to them

Which I meant to say when they follow him, the beast, then salvation is no longer available to them.

But I am sure people will know what I meant to write.

I see the man of sin as only being in the future.

And I do not know what nation he will come from, but he will be from the Roman Empire, which the Bible says he will come from the people that overthrew Jerusalem which is 70 A.D., the Roman Empire.

But the Roman Empire will be extended by that time, but he will be Caucasian.

And it would not be the Pope for he is a spiritual leader, but he claims the Bible which the Vatican and Pope will change when the New Age Christ works in the world before he claims to be God, and their viewpoint of the Bible will go along with the New Age Christ.

[...]

It's ok Matt. I'd run into the same problem all the time when I'd post. A few posts have taken me hours to publish just because I didn't want any errors in it, and by the time I published the conversation had already moved on lol. But for accuracy sake thanks for the correction.

----

I assume I'll get more futurists than anything for this thread. But I hope a preterist can contribute just to make it complete.

 

[tourist]

hmm... well honestly I don't think I have an exact stand in this one, maybe a futerist? I did watch a documentary about this subject though and some people believe that it is all three views, that there are three in total and the first two being a person I can't remember but he won a war leaving absolute bloodshed behind him then there was hitler and there is a future one who is the final and most deadly man of sin.

However identifying who it is is basically impossible in fact I bet the antichrist doesn't even know himself who he really is until the time comes

I believe that you are correct about the antichrist not knowing himself until the appointed time.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Papacy is not the man o' sin. The man o' sin was a HE that was being restrained when Paul wrote about him:

(2 Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction)

(2 Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.)

It was a HIM not a system of popery.