The Modern “Grace Message” — Revolution or Rebellion?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
113
#1
This is the most comprehensive and excellent article I have read on the modern grace message. I offer it for your edification.

link > Modern Grace Message: Revolution or Rebellion?

"Though the Antinomian heresy has surfaced with varied justifications and emphases over the centuries, its latest explosion in the so-called “grace” movement has its most immediate roots in the extreme manifestation of Darbyite Dispensationalism referred to as the “Free-Grace” movement of the 20th century (led by teachers such as Lewis Sperry Chafer, Zane Hodges, and Charles Ryrie) that eventually persuaded some of its number to become near or even complete universalists, believing that not even specific belief or trust in Christ or the cross was required to be saved, since, according to them, “grace” meant there are no requirements or conditions of any kind for salvation. "

"The Bible, however, teaches that saving grace is not given to all but only to those who have biblical faith – something the Bible says has very strong doctrinal content and moral consequences. While the doctrinal content and moral consequences of faith do not work for or earn salvation, they are indispensable parts of the bucket that receives God’s free gift. As is often said (following Calvin) we are saved by faith alone but the faith that saves is not alone (see, for example, James 2:14-26). We are saved from our sins and any so-called salvation that does not result in our turning away from habitual, willful sin is not biblical salvation."
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,425
0
#2
Here is an article that refutes the erroneous belief that grace believers are antinomian. Another term that is used by those that don't understand or agree with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ. = hyper-grace.


https://escapetoreality.org/2014/09/09/hyper-grace-lawlessness/

When we preach the gospel that Paul did, you are going to get opposition against it just like he did. When you preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can sin all we want now?" If no one says that - you have not preached the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

Paul himself had to in Romans alone speak 4x times to this issue. He said he was slandered because some said he is saying to go out and sin all you want ( Romans 3:8 ). They did not understand the true gospel. Make no mistake about it. The gospel of Christ alone for salvation is offensive to certain types of people.



 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
113
#3
You may be familiar with the provocative idea from Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981) that true test of gospel preaching is whether people mistake your gospel for antinomianism. Here, for example, is the Doctor preaching from Romans 6 on the charge “shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?”

The true preaching of the gospel of salvation by grace alone always leads to the possibility of this charge being brought against it. There is no better test as to whether a man is really preaching the New Testament gospel of salvation than this, that some people might misunderstand it and misinterpret it to mean that it really amounts to this, that because you are saved by grace alone it does not matter at all what you do; you can go on sinning as much as you like because it will redound all the more to the glory of grace. This is a very good test of gospel preaching. If my preaching and presentation of the gospel of salvation does not expose it to that misunderstanding, then it is not the gospel. (The New Man, 8)​

This is classic Lloyd-Jones overstatement. But it’s a provocative statement with an important point. We must share the gospel in all its scandalous grace. Lloyd-Jones does not want antinomianism preached, but he does want salvation by grace alone to be so celebrated that some people in that moment of gospel declaration might wonder if we care about good works. To which I say: preach on brother.

But that’s not all Lloyd-Jones said about law and grace, because Romans 6:1 wasn’t the only thing he ever preached on. In his Studies in the Sermon on the Mount, Lloyd-Jones sounded a different–though entirely biblical and entirely complementary–note:

Is it not true to say of many of us that in actual practice our view of the doctrine of grace is such that we scarcely ever take the plain teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ seriously? We have so emphasized the teaching that all is of grace and that we ought not to try to imitate His example in order to make ourselves Christians, that we are virtually in the position of ignoring His teaching altogether and of saying that it has nothing to do with us because we are under grace. Now I wonder how seriously we take the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The best way of concentrating on the question is, I think, to face the Sermon on the Mount. (p. 12)​

Later, he goes even further in emphasizing the importance of the law in the Christian life.

The Christian is a man who of necessity must be concerned about keeping God’s law. I mentioned in chapter one the fatal tendency to put up law and grace as antitheses in the wrong sense. We are not ‘under the law’ but we are still meant to keep it. . . .So the Christian is a man who is always concerned about living and keeping the law of God. Here [in the Sermon on the Mount] he is reminded how that is to be done. (p. 26)​

The mature Christian will say “Amen” to all three paragraphs from Lloyd-Jones. We want churches which love free grace and churches which do not put that grace in absolute opposition to the law of God. We need preachers who can preach all the good news and all the hard edges of Romans 5-8 and all the good news and all the hard edges of Matthew 5-8 with conviction and without apology.​

https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.or...yd-jones-on-scandalous-grace-that-isnt-cheap/
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,425
0
#4
Here is also a great video of Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones teaching on "dead to sin". He answers the antinomian argument against the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This is audio only but well worth the listening to. He teaches how the teaching of grace frees
the believer from sin but it's through the knowledge of what Jesus has already done for us in His finished work.

[video=youtube;jTUv0zitbkw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTUv0zitbkw[/video]
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5
I doubt very many bothered to read the whole article..otherwise they would see most preach the same message.,......

Quoted from the article

"Biblical Christians wholeheartedly believe that we are saved not by any works of our own but purely by the unmerited favor of God received through faith in Christ:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. – Ephesians 2:8-10

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. — Titus 3:5-7

Real faith results in a life-changing work of God that makes us “new creatures” who live godly and obedient lives
Not everyone will be saved, though. Jesus, in fact, said we must “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14). The Bible says only those who have biblical faith will receive the true grace that leads to our inheriting the kingdom of God.

One of the differences between true and false faith specified in the Bible is that real faith results in a life-changing work of God that makes us “new creatures” (2 Corinthians 5:17) who live godly and obedient lives. Consequently, perseverance in this godliness is an essential consequence of the faith that ultimately inherits the kingdom "
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#6
I believe there is a distinction between justification and santification that Satan would love to blur, but the only way people can stand against the Enemy is to drink their milk and learn to eat meat for themselves.

Stop filling up on candy messages that make you feel good but slowly starve your soul.

Learn to pray and read God's word for yourself. You can't live on preprocessed sermons and regurgitated food forever.

Don't become obese by just consuming God's words, exercise what you learn and go help someone today. Find ways to show God's love to others pray with them, listen to their sorrows, laugh with joy,..visit the widows and orphans, clothe the poor, feed the hungry...in all things glorify the Lord.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,926
3,346
113
#7
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by Grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ Alone.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
410
0
#8
It seems to put many people into great anguish (just as we are shown that it also did in the Bible) that the joker sitting over there, simply loving God and people, gets to go to the same Heaven they (the TRUE workers for God) have labored long and hard to earn. "It just isn't FAIR!"
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,526
113
#9
Really interesting that God forgives us but we don't forgive ourselves.

Ever met an Arminian who didn't carry a load of guilt upon himself? Hint the RCC oppresses the laity with guilt that Christ removes when a soul is saved by grace. Works will never remove the burden of guilt.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
113
#10
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by Grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ Alone.
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by working out our own salvation alone.

Do you see how true that is and how words can get in the way?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
113
#11
I doubt very many bothered to read the whole article..otherwise they would see most preach the same message.,......
I doubt most will either. It is very long. But for those who are interested, it is very thorough and the best I've read on the subject.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,425
0
#12
In Jesus Himself is where we have obtained an inheritance.

(obtained is in the aorist tense and passive voice = Aorist = past time event passive = something is being put on you - you do not obtain it yourself )



Ephesians 1:11-14 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

[SUP]12 [/SUP] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Our inheritance in the kingdom of God is sealed in the Holy Spirit when we believed. He is our "down payment". He will never leave us nor forsake us.

We really need to be teaching about Christ and what He has done for us as Paul prayed for the Ephesian believers.

Ephesians 1:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

[SUP]18 [/SUP] The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,186
4,916
113
#13
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by working out our own salvation alone.

Do you see how true that is and how words can get in the way?
this is not true, it is your sight error. salvation is given by grace through faith for good works. your version works produce faith, then grace is given.

why do you constantly strive against this clear Biblical teaching??? do you not trust God to do what he says??? because it seems like you insist on having a role in your salvation, instead of trusting Christ.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,425
0
#14
Working out what is already in us because of what Christ has already done for us is different then working it out to "obtain" it.

There is also a difference between being saved in this world from things and then there is the saved for going to heaven to be with the Lord.

We need to differentiate between the two or we will mix up scriptures and make up meanings that are not there and thus err in the application of some scriptures when they talk about "being saved / salvation "...etc
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
113
#15
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by working out our own salvation alone.

Do you see how true that is and how words can get in the way?
this is not true, it is your sight error. salvation is given by grace through faith for good works. your version works produce faith, then grace is given.

why do you constantly strive against this clear Biblical teaching??? do you not trust God to do what he says??? because it seems like you insist on having a role in your salvation, instead of trusting Christ.
Clearly it is true. GOD will work in you, but he's not going to do your work for you. And nobody else will either.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
9,186
4,916
113
#16
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by working out our own salvation alone.

Do you see how true that is and how words can get in the way?
this is a false statement. this is a works-based mindset. I pray you see this one day.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,425
0
#17
A lot of us Christians have a struggle in believing grace is true. We are stuck in the flesh, which believes grace is merely a power source for the flesh.

God will never empower your flesh to do what Jesus has already done. Those who try to obey God by "becoming righteous" ( in their own eyes ) for God, are making themselves a rival of Jesus
.

Hebrews 10:29 says " To count the blood of the covenant ( which is Jesus's sacrifice) as a common thing " - is to put our common "works" on par with Jesus' perfect work on our behalf.

This is why Paul exhorts us in Galatians to "walk by the spirit" and we will not fulfill it's lusts - that is the flesh.

We live by His life in us now and this is how we work out the salvation and life that is already in us in Christ. - in our new man created in righteousness and holiness. This new life of Christ will reflect outwardly in our lives as we behold Christ. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
 
Last edited:

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,926
3,346
113
#18
I hope we can all agree that we are saved ( including sanctified) by working out our own salvation alone.

Do you see how true that is and how words can get in the way?
Oh yes, because it is God Who first works in us His good pleasure.
I suppose how effectual is His work in us is the question.
 
Last edited:
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
77
0
#19
The modern "greasy" grace message is all about what you can get from Jesus Christ, but without the message of what you have to be willing to give up in order to be His disciple. :)
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,425
0
#20
The modern "greasy" grace message is all about what you can get from Jesus Christ, but without the message of what you have to be willing to give up in order to be His disciple. :)

That's strange....I have listened to over a thousand messages and I have never heard that before. In fact I have heard the complete opposite of what you "claimed" as being true.

I wouldn't call God's grace "greasy" or free or cheap - it cost the Father His beloved Son's blood to redeem us.

I heard that we are dead to sin and that our old man died with Christ and our real life is hidden with Christ in God.

That we have started our Christian life totally dependent on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith and we are to walk the rest of our lives with our hope fixed completely on the grace being brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.


1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ
.