The modern church and the "Sinners Prayer"- True or false teaching?

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preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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What's positive about being forever in doubt and never having any security or confidence, freedom or assurance?

Is that salvation? Something that turns and wavers every second between damnation and pardon?

How is this different from rushing to the temple every day with another blood sacrifice that is never able to truly take away sin, or to make perfect, but only to temporally cover it with blood?

What's "redemption" mean?
p....,

I have no doubt...I live righteously as I can and trust that my periodic prayer keeps me clean from the effects of an occasional sin.
That is biblical salvation.

Salvation doesn't waiver.... the person does.

Repentance does not make us perfect...if it did G-d would not have to give us unlimited times of sin forgiveness...would He?

Are you saying you do not pray daily?...suggest you change....quickly.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Good post until you said that. Not sure how you got that from his post and then assumed he doesn't.
b.....,

He seemed not to understand that we occasionally sin and we must ask for forgiveness.......it was through out his post;
======his post
What's positive about being forever in doubt and never having any security or confidence, freedom or assurance?
Cured with prayer.
Is that salvation? Something that turns and wavers every second between damnation and pardon?
Cured with prayer.
How is this different from rushing to the temple every day with another blood sacrifice that is never able to truly take away sin, or to make perfect, but only to temporally cover it with blood?

Cured with prayer.
All included if we do daily prayer. Nothing extra required/even taxing...he inferred/which he suggested....all for nye...if done correctly..



========
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
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No doubt many people have mistakenly believed that they were saved because they prayed the sinner's prayer or walked an aisle and shook the preacher's hand or were baptized in water, but none of those things are wrong in and of themselves. You just have to believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confess Him as Lord and follow him. At the same time, you don't have to experience the proper degree of sorrow, beg and cry and jump through all kinds of hoops, either. Nor do you have to confess every sin you ever committed from the time you reached the age of accountability. This is all borderline "salvation by works", and many people who want to do away with the sinner's prayer seem to want to get people into a works mentality. At least with the sinner's prayer nobody is led to believe that they're saved because they quit smoking, drinking, cussing, lying .... etc.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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p.....,
Here is one...do a search...many references;.......KJV....26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins....

We all need to spend more time in scriptures.
In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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....No doubt many people have mistakenly believed that they were saved because they prayed the sinner's prayer or walked an aisle and shook the preacher's hand or were baptized in water, but none of those things are wrong in and of themselves. You just have to believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confess Him as Lord and follow him. At the same time, you don't have to experience the proper degree of sorrow, beg and cry and jump through all kinds of hoops, either. Nor do you have to confess every sin you ever committed from the time you reached the age of accountability. .........../QUOTE]


L....,

Please show scripture that supports that conclusion?

I know it doesn't exist...so what was the basis you used to state such conclusion?
 
May 20, 2018
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In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

I believe many today are generally wary of involvement with anything remotely p
b.....,

He seemed not to understand that we occasionally sin and we must ask for forgiveness.......it was through out his post;
======his post
What's positive about being forever in doubt and never having any security or confidence, freedom or assurance?
Cured with prayer.
Is that salvation? Something that turns and wavers every second between damnation and pardon?
Cured with prayer.
How is this different from rushing to the temple every day with another blood sacrifice that is never able to truly take away sin, or to make perfect, but only to temporally cover it with blood?

Cured with prayer.
All included if we do daily prayer. Nothing extra required/even taxing...he inferred/which he suggested....all for nye...if done correctly..



========[/QU

Some put their faith in the examples and teachings of Christ.
Some place their faith in the death and resurrection of Christ.
One will
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
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You want a scripture that shows what you don't have to do? How about scriptures that show what you DO have to do?

... “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
.... "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. " (Rom. 10:9)
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. " (John 3:36)
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. " (Eph. 2:8,9)

I could add more, but I think that should do. If confessing every sin you ever committed was a requirement it seems to me that it would have been mentioned as such, but the only thing we're told to confess for salvation is Jesus as Lord.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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You want a scripture that shows what you don't have to do? How about scriptures that show what you DO have to do?

... “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
.... "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. " (Rom. 10:9)
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. " (John 3:36)
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. " (Eph. 2:8,9)

I could add more, but I think that should do. If confessing every sin you ever committed was a requirement it seems to me that it would have been mentioned as such, but the only thing we're told to confess for salvation is Jesus as Lord.
You want a scripture that shows what you don't have to do? How about scriptures that show what you DO have to do?

... “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” (Acts 16:31)
.... "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. " (Rom. 10:9)
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. " (John 3:36)
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. " (Eph. 2:8,9)

I could add more, but I think that should do. If confessing every sin you ever committed was a requirement it seems to me that it would have been mentioned as such, but the only thing we're told to confess for salvation is Jesus as Lord.
Amen! Good post! Notice that 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10). Some people seem to misinterpret verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin we are toast! :rolleyes:
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
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I concur with much of what you say above . . . nowhere in Scripture does it say that it is through saying a prayer that a person is born again and becomes a child of God. Much damage has been done by turning the new birth into a formula of saying the right words.

As you say, sometimes this approach is followed by a push to do the commandments, attend church, stop swearing, etc. At other times, the approach is simply to lead a person in the sinner's prayer, write their name on a list of "decisions", and then nothing further is done with followup or discipleship.

Surely there have been many who have been truly born again by saying a "sinner's prayer" - and it has yielded much fruit - if it is mixed with faith . . .
I am sorry no one has been saved by saying anything, to be born again is a work of the Spirit and the Word by the Father's grace.

.John 3:3 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” You have to be born again to even see the kingdom of God so that one can repent, without being born again a person cannot see the kingdom so they would not see a need to repent.

Romans 3:22-25 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

John 6:63, 65 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life......65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Sinner need to be given life by the Spirit, granted by the Father because the flesh can do nothing to save it's self. It is God's grace that saves us or causes us to be born again so that we can exercise our faith to recive the propitiation.

I Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Which means that the so called sinners prayer is not Biblical and does nothing but give men that have changed the Church of Christ into a coperate business, that looks to numbers as the measure of success. They can care less about sinners being born of the Spirit and they look for results or numbers for thier work sheets. So they use the commandments to control the people when the commandments are for the knowledge of sin, not to control sin.

Romans 3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

It is all part of the end times apostacy or the perversion of the faith that the very people that are perpetrating it preach about, but since they do not teach the Bible, they use the Bible to seemingly support what they teach, instead of teaching God's Word.
 
May 20, 2018
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p....,

I have no doubt...I live righteously as I can and trust that my periodic prayer keeps me clean from the effects of an occasional sin.
That is biblical salvation.

Salvation doesn't waiver.... the person does.

Repentance does not make us perfect...if it did G-d would not have to give us unlimited times of sin forgiveness...would He?

Are you saying you do not pray daily?...suggest you change....quickly.


So, living as righteous as you can and praying daily is biblical salvation? Well it looks like I may have it wrong.
Might have to approach the word of God with a different view.
Here all this time I've been relying on the redemptive power of the blood of Christ. Read somewhere that it is God who justifies, not me doing my best.
My mentally regarded niece who loves to sit and listen about the goodness of God is going to be quite upset when I tell her that because she doesn't know how to pray that she will burn in the fiery pits of hell.
I might as well turn in my faith if it is ultimately me I must look to for the finality of my salvation. Man...this is depressing.
 
May 20, 2018
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Well, we can interpret and spread what we believe is the truth the best we can.
This is what I have come to understand....salvation is of God. It is sure. His mercy will always preceed his justice for those who trust him.
It makes no sense to me that God would slaughter his son and then hope we make it worth it through the things we do. If my salvation is reliant on my self willed abilities then it's too fallible to put my trust in. If God doesn't have complete control of my eternal destiny then I need to find a more stable and powerfu God to worship. I am worthless and am unable to obtain any heavenly thing on my own whatsoever. I need a God I can give it all to in complete trust he has got me covered....anyone have any suggestions?
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
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Well, we can interpret and spread what we believe is the truth the best we can.
This is what I have come to understand....salvation is of God. It is sure. His mercy will always preceed his justice for those who trust him.
It makes no sense to me that God would slaughter his son and then hope we make it worth it through the things we do. If my salvation is reliant on my self willed abilities then it's too fallible to put my trust in. If God doesn't have complete control of my eternal destiny then I need to find a more stable and powerfu God to worship. I am worthless and am unable to obtain any heavenly thing on my own whatsoever. I need a God I can give it all to in complete trust he has got me covered....anyone have any suggestions?
Yes, don't let wrong teaching lead you from your truth as you describe and defend it here. :)

Recall the assurance written in Ephesians 1:13-14, In [Christ] you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

There is a difference in understanding within the church. There is the sealed believer who is led by the Holy Spirit to do the work of God.
When the sealed believer arrives in Heaven before God they shall be judged based on their work of God. And having followed the leading of His Holy Spirit to do those works while on earth. We shall not be judged by the works we have done for God.
This is how the bible tells us we lay up our treasures in Heaven. It is not to say we worked to stay there.

We are assured the promise, Heaven, the moment we believed. Because it was then that we were sealed by the Holy Spirit to await the judgment. And on earth we are the vessel that writes in our actions, our behaviors, the good news of Christ by example of what it means to have God's spirit motivating and leading us.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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So, living as righteous as you can and praying daily is biblical salvation? Well it looks like I may have it wrong.
Might have to approach the word of God with a different view.
Here all this time I've been relying on the redemptive power of the blood of Christ. Read somewhere that it is God who justifies, not me doing my best.

Christ made available to us the opportunity to be justified before G-d.
We must live the standard to be eligible to receive.



My mentally regarded niece who loves to sit and listen about the goodness of God is going to be quite upset when I tell her that because she doesn't know how to pray that she will burn in the fiery pits of hell.

Please don't miss guide her ...it is instinctive to know how to pray....unless one is miss guided by a relative.

I might as well turn in my faith if it is ultimately me I must look to for the finality of my salvation. Man...this is depressing.
S....,

Sounds like you don't want to pray...?
Suggest you get with it for redemptive reasons.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,596
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S....,

Sounds like you don't want to pray...?
Suggest you get with it for redemptive reasons.
just because i wasn't saved by forgiving others doesn't mean i 'don't forgive others' or that i 'don't want to'
 
May 20, 2018
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I
S....,

Sounds like you don't want to pray...?
Suggest you get with it for redemptive reasons.

I don't pray until I am drawn to pray. If I do not feel repentance in my heart.i will not give God lip service. Christ says he will be doing two things for his. Preparing a place, and praying to the Father for me.
I haven't attended church in seven years, I find as I look over here and focus on not sinning it sprouts up over there. I am a complete failure, especially at being anywhere close in the ballpark to being righteous. It is a torment to my soul to think that I am all there is to hope in to retain my salvation. I do not find that as good news.
The modern teachings of gods word in main stream religion are so diluted and twisted that many people have attached themselves to the misery of legalism instead of faith. Most won't endure a doctrine that renders them powerless in their own salvation.
I am unable to see any other truth in the word of God but that his redemptive plan does not include any help from me. EVERYTHING I need to make it home to my father has been g anted Ro me without condition. Even my belief.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
I



I don't pray until I am drawn to pray. If I do not feel repentance in my heart.i will not give God lip service. Christ says he will be doing two things for his. Preparing a place, and praying to the Father for me.
I haven't attended church in seven years, I find as I look over here and focus on not sinning it sprouts up over there. I am a complete failure, especially at being anywhere close in the ballpark to being righteous. It is a torment to my soul to think that I am all there is to hope in to retain my salvation. I do not find that as good news.
The modern teachings of gods word in main stream religion are so diluted and twisted that many people have attached themselves to the misery of legalism instead of faith. Most won't endure a doctrine that renders them powerless in their own salvation.
I am unable to see any other truth in the word of God but that his redemptive plan does not include any help from me. EVERYTHING I need to make it home to my father has been g anted Ro me without condition. Even my belief.
5....,

How does one put on the...coat of armor...daily...without prayer?
Why does G-d present us with a prayer...Lord's prayer and suggest it to be done daily?
How do we obtain forgiveness of daily sin without prayer?
Why does The Bible tell us to pray without ceasing?(symbolic for us to pray as much as possible),
etc.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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Google, 'billy sunday', and you will find out ALL about 'the sinners prayer'...
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
13
18
God's will is our sanctification. (I Thes. 4:3) Sanctification is the progression by faith in living a holy life, unentangled with the world and victorious over the flesh. That's not legalism. It's liberty from the power of darkness. If you love God you will seek to please Him through sanctification. Blessings.