The "Monster" energy drink logo is not the number of the beast

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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#1
recently there have been a whole lot of false teachings being pushed in the bible study room...ranging from laughable to disturbing...in all cases the number of people buying into these teachings is troubling... i want to address some of those false teachings with a few forum threads...

i will start with one teaching that is just plain ridiculous...

it has been claimed in the bible study room that the logo for the 'monster' energy drink is actually the biblical number of the beast written in hebrew...

this is what a monster energy drink looks like...the logo in question is the three 'claw marks' on the can...
monster.jpg

it has been claimed that the three claw marks are actually the hebrew letter vav written three times...the hebrew letter vav looks like this...
256px-Hebrew_vav.svg.png
here is a chart showing the rest of the hebrew alphabet for reference...
hebrewc.gif

traditionally each hebrew letter has been assigned a numerical value...after reaching the last letter of the hebrew alphabet you can write higher numbers using combinations of hebrew letters... here is a chart of the numerical values of the hebrew letters...
HebrewNumbers.gif

as shown in the chart the number six is represented by the hebrew letter vav... it has been claimed that the three so called 'vavs' in the monster energy drink logo would translate to 6-6-6...the number of the beast in revelation...

but actually this notion is completely false...because the biblical number of the beast is not just the digit six repeated six times...it is actually the number six hundred and sixty-six...which would be represented by very different hebrew letters...

this can be seen from the original greek text of revelation...
revelation 13:18..."Ode he sophia estin. Ho echon noun psephisato ton arithmon tou theriou, arithmos gar anthropou estin, kai ho arithmos autou hexakosioi hexekonta hex."

'hexakosioi' is greek for 'six hundred'...'hexekonta' is greek for 'sixty'...and 'hex' is greek for 'six'...so the number of the beast is six hundred and sixty-six...

older bible translations such as the king james version show this clearly by using the phrase 'six hundred threescore and six'...
revelation 13:18..."Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

looking at the chart of the numeric values of the hebrew alphabet...the actual number of the beast which is six hundred and sixty-six would be represented by the letters 'tav resh samekh vav'...-not- 'vav vav vav'...and 'tav resh samekh vav' would have -no resemblance whatsoever- to the logo on the monster energy drink...

so the logo on the monster energy drink is -not- the biblical mark of the beast in hebrew...the teaching is false...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#2
another point i want to make is that the subjective nature of imagining that ragged claw marks are hebrew letters allows for other 'readings' of the logo on the monster energy drink...

the center claw mark could perhaps more reasonably be identified as the hebrew letter zayin...and for the record i am using the term 'reasonably' in a relative sense...nothing about this silly notion is really 'reasonable'...

the hebrew letter zayin looks like this...
elan92iSv5XNLZJVVlSPBQ_m.png

as this picture shows the top part of the hebrew letter zayin sticks out in both the left and right directions...unlike the hebrew letter vav where the top part only sticks out to the left...this would make the letter zayin a bit closer in appearance than the letter vav to the middle claw mark in the monster energy drink logo...which also has a top part sticking out in both the left and right directions...

a person might also choose to 'read' the leftmost claw mark as a zayin instead of a vav as well...

now i am -not- saying that the logo on the monster energy drink is actually 'vav zayin vav' or 'vav zayin zayin' or anything like that...what i am showing is that this whole teaching is flawed from its very first notion of 'reading' the claw marks on the monster energy drink logo as hebrew letters...
 
May 9, 2012
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#3
As someone who has taken Hebrew here at school for a couple years, THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS! People always try to use the system of Gematria and try to force and twist it into things which it was not meant to be.
 

Donkeyfish07

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2013
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#4
Certainly looks more like 3 vavs to me than anything else......I seriously doubt that was done intentionally, it's just what it happens to look like.....Does that mean people chugging monsters are taking the mark of the beast? lol....absolutely not
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
finally i will make one last point...why i think even this silly false teaching is harmful to the church...

scripture tells us in several places to be alert and keep watch and to recognize the signs of the end time...for example...

matthew 24:42-44..."Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will."

it harms the church's ability to be alert and keep watch and recognize the signs when any of its people buy into -red herrings- such as the teaching described in this thread...
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#6
It's odd that Rachel makes such an elaborate defense of something nobody was talking about.

I was never suspicious of Monster drinks until now.

It's much like the time a government agency made a public statement, out-of- the-blue saying,
"President Obama has never been to Mars."

Hmmmm.


: )
 
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Donkeyfish07

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2013
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#7
I see what your saying Rachel.....of course it does look exactly like what they say it looks like.....and it is the interwebs......there's no stopping that conspiracy theory. lol
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#8
Its amazing what people can come up with. The mark of te beast has nothing to do with barcodes or rfid chips. It is a mark that one willing takes and know's what it means.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#9
Bigfoot poo, now thats the mark of the beast.
 
Dec 8, 2012
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#10
I had seen a video claiming that the Monster logo represents 666 but I never get excited over YouTube hysteria. Even so Thank you Rachel for this corrective post.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#11
It's odd that Rachel makes such an elaborate defense of something nobody was talking about.

I was never suspicious of Monster drinks until now.

It's much like the time a government agency made a public statement, out-of- the-blue saying,
"President Obama has never been to Mars."

Hmmmm.


: )
this false teaching has actually been promoted several times in the bible study room...disturbingly a number of chatters were actually taking it seriously...

so that is why i thought it was worth making a thread to debunk it...

there are much more serious false teachings that i will address in other threads when i have more time...
 
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djness

Guest
#12
It's odd that Rachel makes such an elaborate defense of something nobody was talking about.

I was never suspicious of Monster drinks until now.

It's much like the time a government agency made a public statement, out-of- the-blue saying,
"President Obama has never been to Mars."

Hmmmm.


: )
It is kind of sad but multiple times threads have been opened stating exactly what she was talking about that the 3 slashes on the monster cans are 666.

It is something that people are and have discussed.

Christians real or fake so often cry wolf that when the real wolves arrive nobody will know.
I believe there is a saying that goes something like ''when you search for monsters you will find one in every shadow''
If you constantly think there is something evil going on you will find it because you want it to be that way.

It's good for people to actually disprove these things in a way that clears up all the false information from chicken little christians.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#13
Rachel,

I'm sure this is all just a silly conspiracy theory cooked up by some bored kid on the internet.
Seriously.
It all sounds silly.

Nevertheless, that does not automatically turn your post into some kind of "proof."

You didn't actually show proof anything.
What you showed was that by YOUR estimation, the LOGO for Monster does not constitute the proper Hebrew number for 666. You then drew the inference that because in YOUR estimation, this logo could not represent the number 666, that it automatically must be viewed the exact same way by the owners of the company who created it.

This is a huge leap in logic, and it just doesn't work.

I agree this is probably just a silly internet hoax.
But that doesn't make it a good idea to prove it a hoax with thin evidence and inconsistent logic.

1. We certainly don't know that your opinion of the number is correct, and if your opinion is validated by experienced Hebrew scholars.

2. Even if you opinion of the number is validated by Hebrew Scholars, that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the intentions of the company who created the logo.

You gave an opinion based on your understanding of Hebrew, and your "assumed understanding" of the intentions of the company. The reality is, you can't possibly know the intentions of the company, and you didn't actually prove anything.

Again, I'm sure this is just a silly internet hoax,
but how about we use a bit more logic, and do a bit more homework, before we wade into a subject we have no way to verify one way or the other.

God Bless,
Max
 
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Oct 14, 2013
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#14
[video=youtube;-IyR6RZ49Co]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-IyR6RZ49Co#t=1[/video]
 

Tintin

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2013
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#15
Yikes! I've seen this nonsense flying around CC. It makes me sick. Christians need to be discerning, yes, but we're also called to think critically (use our God-given brains). Clearly, the three claw marks just form the letter M as in "Monster", the name of the energy drink. It's quality graphic design, nothing more.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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#16
It doesn't matter either way. Both sides are just flaunting their Hebrew.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#17
Rachel,

I'm sure this is all just a silly conspiracy theory cooked up by some bored kid on the internet.
Seriously.
It all sounds silly.

Nevertheless, that does not automatically turn your post into some kind of "proof."

You didn't actually show proof anything.
What you showed was that by YOUR estimation, the LOGO for Monster does not constitute the proper Hebrew number for 666. You then drew the inference that because in YOUR estimation, this logo could not represent the number 666, that it automatically must be viewed the exact same way by the owners of the company who created it.

This is a huge leap in logic, and it just doesn't work.

I agree this is probably just a silly internet hoax.
But that doesn't make it a good idea to prove it a hoax with thin evidence and inconsistent logic.

1. We certainly don't know that your opinion of the number is correct, and if your opinion is validated by experienced Hebrew scholars.

2. Even if you opinion of the number is validated by Hebrew Scholars, that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the intentions of the company who created the logo.

You gave an opinion based on your understanding of Hebrew, and your "assumed understanding" of the intentions of the company. The reality is, you can't possibly know the intentions of the company, and you didn't actually prove anything.

Again, I'm sure this is just a silly internet hoax,
but how about we use a bit more logic, and do a bit more homework, before we wade into a subject we have no way to verify one way or the other.

God Bless,
Max
i don't understand why some people insist on turning just about everything into a mere matter of opinion...

how numbers are written in hebrew is not a matter of opinion...there is only one right way to do it...

'vav vav vav' does not translate to 'six hundred threescore and six'...that is not my 'estimation'...that is a -fact- of the hebrew language...

we don't get to make up our own version of hebrew where 'vav vav vav' is a valid way of writing 'six hundred threescore and six'...

honestly your objection is about as reasonable as saying 'who are you to say that MCDQRP doesn't mean 2013 in roman numerals?'
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#18
Women are the devil. Waterboy scene 32 and alligators are so mean cause they have all them teeth and no tooth brush. Thats what mama says.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,414
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#19
i don't understand why some people insist on turning just about everything into a mere matter of opinion...

how numbers are written in hebrew is not a matter of opinion...there is only one right way to do it...

'vav vav vav' does not translate to 'six hundred threescore and six'...that is not my 'estimation'...that is a -fact- of the hebrew language...

we don't get to make up our own version of hebrew where 'vav vav vav' is a valid way of writing 'six hundred threescore and six'...

honestly your objection is about as reasonable as saying 'who are you to say that MCDQRP doesn't mean 2013 in roman numerals?'
Rachel,

I didn't say you were wrong in your assessment of the numbers.
I said you didn't give us any corroboration that you were correct.
We are not all Hebrew scholars, and we just wouldn't be good Bereans if we simply took your word for everything.
You DO want us all to be Bereans don't you?
Isn't that what we're supposed to do?
Surely you DO want us to be good Bereans, and test things, and check facts?

Now, completely regardless of whether or not the logo constitutes a proper Hebrew number, there is simply no way to assume we know the thoughts, or intentions, of the people who created that logo. This is where everything breaks down. When they were making the logo, they could have been thinking just about anything, and we really have no way to verify or assess what was in their minds at that time. We are not mind readers.

Because we are not mind readers, we have no idea what they were really thinking when they made the logo.
So we cannot, in any way, say definitively they did or didn't mean one thing or another.
We simply have no way to know.

I completely agree this is probably just a silly internet hoax.

But I think, as Christians, we should get into the habits of using logic more carefully, and being more honest in our claims about what we can prove, and what we cannot.
 
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djness

Guest
#20
Well meaning thread derailed at this point.
Rachel,
I didn't say you were wrong in your assessment of the numbers.
I'm not saying you are wrong but I am saying you aren't right. Is pretty much what I get from this. That seems to be to be the easy way out of saying someone is wrong but not wanting to own up to it.

You didn't actually show proof anything.
What you showed was that by YOUR estimation, the LOGO for Monster does not constitute the proper Hebrew number for 666. You then drew the inference that because in YOUR estimation, this logo could not represent the number 666, that it automatically must be viewed the exact same way by the owners of the company who created it.
1. We certainly don't know that your opinion of the number is correct, and if your opinion is validated by experienced Hebrew scholars.
I said you didn't give us any corroboration that you were correct.
Yes she did in post #1.


We are not all Hebrew scholars, and we just wouldn't be good Bereans if we simply took your word for everything.
You DO want us all to be Bereans don't you?
Isn't that what we're supposed to do?
Surely you DO want us to be good Bereans, and test things, and check facts?
This is a huge leap in logic, and it just doesn't work.
Then start producing facts other then telling her that her facts are wrong by your opinion.
If you are going to say someone is wrong then don't be ironic in the way you do it.
As it is you offer no proof as to how she was wrong you just stated that she is wrong with no verifiable evidence. She even put charts for reference...
You just did that exact thing you accused her of except she actually provided evidence and you only offered an opinion.

If she made a leap in logic then you just fired yourself out of a cannon.

Because we are not mind readers, we have no idea what they were really thinking when they made the logo.
So we cannot, in any way, say definitively they did or didn't mean one thing or another.
We simply have no way to know.
This is true , we do not know the motive.

I completely agree this is probably just a silly internet hoax.
But I think, as Christians, we should get into the habits of using logic more carefully, and being more honest in our claims about what we can prove, and what we cannot.
The number of times you have defended this makes me wonder if you think it is true. Do you own stock in Monster drinks?