The Natural Man

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throughfaith

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So then, 1 Cor 2:14, is the juxtaposition of the two natures within the saved man.. which means Paul is not speaking about the process of salvation, just the larger context of spiritual knowledge which also blows this proof text out of the water for Calvinism.

People like MacArthur (Calvinist) teach the natural man is being conformed to the image of Christ (wrong!!) he denies the two natures.

So we can see why they do not get at all the point Paul
why say you are a bible believer, if you are just going to make things up despite what the bible says?
Because She can read the context and is not influenced by a system originated by Augustine.
 

Nehemiah6

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The natural man is an unbeliever that doesn't want to believe, doesn't want to learn, doesn't want to grow, doesn't want to mortify the deeds of the body so that the spirit can grow. does not welcome the spirit, does not accept it, does not receive it.
You are going well beyond the boundaries of the meaning of "the natural man". The proper definition is that the natural man has simply not been born again, and does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

All the rest of your accusations may or may not apply, and are essentially false and misleading.
 

ForestGreenCook

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And the ' natural man ' is the immature believer . Carnal and ' natural man are the same ( its a synonym) . They are immature believers .
You can interpret 1 Cor 2:14 any way you want to, but that scripture is very plain that the natural man is not a believer in spiritual things. They may be immature, but they are not a believer in spiritual things.
 

throughfaith

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You can interpret 1 Cor 2:14 any way you want to, but that scripture is very plain that the natural man is not a believer in spiritual things. They may be immature, but they are not a believer in spiritual things.
1 cor 3 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Notice these believers ,the same ones Paul calls saint's , justified , sanctified are UNABLE to bear with the meat . They are unable to understand the things of the Spirit the deeper things Paul can have understood by the mature. 1 cor 2.6
.I understand calvinism desperately needs this verse to say 'lost people cannot believe the Gospel unless they are regenerated first. Thats the irony , calvinists cannot understand the things of this verse .
 

Nehemiah6

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You can interpret 1 Cor 2:14 any way you want to, but that scripture is very plain that the natural man is not a believer in spiritual things.
It would be more accurate to say that the natural man simply cannot comprehend spiritual things, because he needs the Holy Spirit in order to do so.

But that still does not mean that he cannot comprehend the plain and simple Gospel. The Gospel is intended for the natural man (the unsaved sinner) and that is very clear from Scripture.
 

throughfaith

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It would be more accurate to say that the natural man simply cannot comprehend spiritual things, because he needs the Holy Spirit in order to do so.

But that still does not mean that he cannot comprehend the plain and simple Gospel. The Gospel is intended for the natural man (the unsaved sinner) and that is very clear from Scripture.
If we had some verses that said the unsaved man cannot believe the Gospel because he's unsaved they might have a point . I agree that an unsaved man cannot grasp the deeper things of God , because its clear not even some saved natural / carnal believers are able to recieve the things the people in 1 cor 2.6 can recieve. I don't think Paul needs to suddenly tell us in one verse ' oh the unsaved man cannot understand mature things of God ( Mysteries ect ) when he's already explained the issues as to their behaviour affecting the Church and why they are struggling.
 

Nehemiah6

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Here is the key to understanding what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 2: THAT WE (CHRISTIANS) MIGHT KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE FREELY GIVEN TO US OF GOD.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit [capitalized] which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (verse 12)

After the Gospel has been preached, believed, and obeyed, there is whole raft of spiritual blessings ("all spiritual blessings") which are given to the children of God by God Himself. And they can only be understood by those who have the Spirit of God.

But to claim that God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to unsaved sinners so that they might be saved through the Gospel is the HEIGHT OF ABSURDITY. And that is what Calvinism is all about. One absurdity after another.
 

DiscipleA

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It seems what we're dealing with here are different stages of spiritual growth. On the low end of the scale you can be considered a "natural man" and on the high end, a spiritual man. A person can be anywhere along that scale and have different amounts of knowledge, different beliefs, and different degrees of understanding.
 

DiscipleA

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But to claim that God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to unsaved sinners so that they might be saved through the Gospel is the HEIGHT OF ABSURDITY.
Remember the people of Cornelius. God already gave him holy spirit but he wasn't able to be saved until he heard the Gospel from Peter and got baptized.
 

Nehemiah6

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I don't know why people keep mentioning Calvinism.
Here's the reason why Calvinism is mentioned. Calvinists take what is taught in 1 Corinthians 2 and twist it so that they can claim that the unsaved natural men CANNOT comprehend the Gospel. Which robs the Gospel of its power under the power of the Holy Spirit.

And because of that they claim that unbelieving sinners receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to comprehend the Gospel and be saved. Which is absurd.

The Westminster Confession of Faith spells out Reformed Theology (Calvinism) in detail. Here is what they say about this matter, which practically states that the sinner is born again BEFORE he is born again:

"All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace."
And we sure don't need to be critical or disrespectful.
If it is disrespectful to call false teachings "absurd" then so be it. You should read the writings of the Early Church Fathers when dealing with heresies. What I said is extremely mild.
 

throughfaith

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Remember the people of Cornelius. God already gave him holy spirit but he wasn't able to be saved until he heard the Gospel from Peter and got baptized.
Didn't Cornelius hear the Gospel then recieved the Holy Spirit then Spoke in tongues then were water baptised ?
 

DiscipleA

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Remember the people of Cornelius. God already gave him holy spirit but he wasn't able to be saved until he heard the Gospel from Peter and got baptized.
Sorry...Peter probably preached the Gospel to Cornelius' people first. Then, the people received holy spirit. Then, the people were baptized.
 

Iconoclast

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no.neither.of you can.you ignore what is taught by the greek teachers and offer fables
Here's the reason why Calvinism is mentioned. Calvinists take what is taught in 1 Corinthians 2 and twist it so that they can claim that the unsaved natural men CANNOT comprehend the Gospel. Which robs the Gospel of its power under the power of the Holy Spirit.

And because of that they claim that unbelieving sinners receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to comprehend the Gospel and be saved. Which is absurd.

The Westminster Confession of Faith spells out Reformed Theology (Calvinism) in detail. Here is what they say about this matter, which practically states that the sinner is born again BEFORE he is born again:

"All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace."

If it is disrespectful to call false teachings "absurd" then so be it. You should read the writings of the Early Church Fathers when dealing with heresies. What I said is extremely mild.
you guote the truth,then deny it
 

Iconoclast

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I don't know why people keep mentioning Calvinism. We don't need to do that. And we sure don't need to be critical or disrespectful.
Calvinists give God all the glory in His work of seeking and saving the lost.
God saves 100%.
 

John146

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Calvinists give God all the glory in His work of seeking and saving the lost.
God saves 100%.
Is Jesus the Saviour of all men?

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 

DiscipleA

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they can claim that the unsaved natural men CANNOT comprehend the Gospel. Which robs the Gospel of its power under the power of the Holy Spirit.

And because of that they claim that unbelieving sinners receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to comprehend the Gospel and be saved.
Aren't "natural men" unbelievers? Seems like a contradiction. (see bold text) I don't know what they believe.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 

throughfaith

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Is Jesus the Saviour of all men?

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Wait for the ' all kinds of men '