The perennial Acts 2.38 confusion .

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Wansvic

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Can you show me where in the Bible being baptized is a penalty for sin?

adam was told if he sinned he would die ie the penalty of sin is death

when he sinned, god caused death so Adam could be covered

from that point forward, god commanded animal sacrifice.

the law taught the penalty of sin was death, and that the priest would have to make atonement for sin on the day of atonement, by as you guessed it. Death of an unblemished lamb

the NT says the penalty of sin is death. It says all have sinned thus all are dead, it says the gift of God is eternal life through Christ? Why? He who knew no sin became sin for us, as John said, behold the lamb of god who takes away the sin, as the sacrificial lamb without spot, moses told us whoever broke one command was cursed, and paul told us what he meant, cursed is the one who hangs on a tree, representing Christ who hung on a cross

moses was told to hold a serpent up that whoever sees my live, Jesus said just like Moses lifted the serpent the son of man must be lifted, that whoever may believes will live eternally (eternal life)

so again, please show me where water baptism is seen as a penalty of sin, because I just can’t see it
Jesus paid the penalty for sin through his death. The gospel is Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. We as individuals must obey the gospel in order to appropriate or apply that gospel to our lives individually. Peter specified how in Acts 2:38. This is done through repentance (death to sin), water baptism (burial), and receiving the Holy Ghost. (new life in Christ).
 

TheLearner

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Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Paul's comments clearly reference the word of truth the gospel of salvation first heard, believed and acted upon on the Day of Pentecost.
Ephesians 1
English Standard Version
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful[a] in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee[d] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[e] to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love[f] toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

I do not see anything about water baptism in the text related to being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
 

TheLearner

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You fail to realize that belief, repentance, water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are exclusive to the spiritual rebirth process according to the word. The other actions you mention are expected behaviors from those who are born again.
Ephesians 2:5-10
English Standard Version
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

I see baptism as part of the good works to walk in.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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(1) Bad math! Today, Under GRACE {Romans - Philemon KJB!), there is only
ONE BAPTISM! (Ephesians 4:5 KJB!)
ADDing water = TWO baptismS! Is this
"Approved Unto God"?
Baptism in Water and Spirit are a chain action of one another, not 2 Baptisms total.
MARRIAGE, so that "TWO become one," Correct? "of one ANOTHER"?
Sounds like TWO, to me, too. Never heard of "baptismal marriage" theology:

(1) water was around long Before "Baptism (IN{?} verse please) the Spirit"
Or: LONG Before this anyway!:

(2) Paul {who taught ONE BAPTISM "BY" The Spirit!} was "saved on the road
to Damascus" By God's GRACE And MERCY, The Spirit Identifying him as The
First "member" Of God's NEW {Joining of TWO!} Creation, The Body Of CHRIST!:

Into: "ONE New man" (Ephesians 2:15-16 KJB!) And:

(3) This ONE BAPTISM {Acts 9!} was LONG Before Paul's OTHER water
baptism, BY Ananias! (Acts 22:16 KJB!)

Conclusion: There is NO "chain action one of another," between these TWO!

Be Blessed!
 

Wansvic

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Don’t forget all your works, like water baptism, you can’t leave them out, thats what you have been preaching Jesus plus!!!


you should study galations and other passages. We are under the abrahamic covenant the covenant of grace. Who was told the Gentiles would receive grace through his seed, and all the nations would be blessed.

the mosaic covenant which came 400 some odd years later did not annul that Covenant. all People are and have always been saved by that same faith abraham after God made him that promised and Abraham believed god and it was accounted to him as righteousness,

his forgiveness came by faith, just as david did. As just after his grave sins he said blessed is the man to whome God does not impute sin.

God did not add water baptism to the equation, especially after the whole list of works of the law could not help anyone be saved, he did not replace those works or add water baptism

no one has ever been saved by water baptism. No one ever will
God commanded obedience in connection with His covenant with Abraham. It was not faith alone that kept him in covenant with God:

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen 17:14
 

Wansvic

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Nope

Water baptism is not included

Spirit baptism however is. Titus 3 says we were saved by the washing and new birth of the HS. not by the pastor or priest;
Water baptism as well as the infilling of the Holy Ghost are referenced in all scriptures pertaining to the spiritual rebirth.
 

Wansvic

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The day of pentecost had nothign to do with eph 1. He was speaking to people in the city of the Ephesian church and what happened to them when they heard the word of truth and believed.
What is the word of truth that they heard and believed?
 

ForestGreenCook

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Acts 2.38 is sadly one of ,the most twisted scriptures in the NT .

Again ,why is Acts 2.38 used as the plan of salvation today ?
-Its chapter 2 in a book of 28 chapters ?
- Its a transitional book
- Peter is addressing Israel/ Jews
36¶Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

- The objection is this part.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

But in context, as Peter has no Gentile in mind ,he's saying " For the promise is unto you( Jews ) , and to your children( Jews ) , and to all that are afar off,( Jews ) even as many as the Lord our God shall call.( Jews ,as Gentiles are not in the picture until After Israels rejection in Acts 7 )

- The Order is rightly seen as reading 38¶Then Peter said unto them,
1 Repent,
2and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3) , and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is not found in any description Paul gives later.
The commentaries literally do linguistic gymnastics, with 'the greek ' to try make it sound like what we see after in the epistles. Its hilarious the amount of dancing around is made of this verse to make it say something it actually doesn't say . The verse scarcely stands as it reads ,given by so many commentaries.

Peter is saying things to this crowd that doesn't apply to us . " whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ.
This is specific to this audience.
Yes they are saved when they do what's required. My point is that what is required today is not Acts 2.38 .
Rather its 1.cor 1.21
Eph 1.13
Rom 10,9 -15
1 cor 15 : 1-4

thoughts ?
All Israel is not of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob but to be called Israel. Most of the scriptures about Israel from that time forward is referring to Jacob as Israel that includes people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. - Rev 5:9. Jacob as Israel represents God's elect. - Rom 9:11. The scriptures you have referenced do pertain to us as Gentiles.
 

Wansvic

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If
1. the holy spirit is given as a pledge or seal after one believes. Not after one is baptised
2. The anointing of the spirit occures after baptism. Just not water baptism. It is the spiritual baptism performed by God himself (col 2 and titus 3)
If this were true other scriptures would not contradict it. Notice the Samaritans believed yet Peter and John had to come afterward and lay hands on them to actually receive the Holy Ghost. Also, Paul makes it clear that people do not get the Holy Ghost the moment they believe:

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Ephesians 1
English Standard Version
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful[a] in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee[d] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[e] to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer
15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love[f] toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

I do not see anything about water baptism in the text related to being sealed by the Holy Spirit.

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Of course an individual must accept Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Without having faith in that would make one's obedience to the commands associated with it pointless.
 

throughfaith

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Paul' or

Paul's original letters (epistles) were written to churches whose people had already received their spiritual rebirth.
Yes and whats your point on that? Don't Believiers need to understand what happened ?
 

Wansvic

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Ephesians 2:5-10
English Standard Version
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

I see baptism as part of the good works to walk in.
Water baptism was commanded by Jesus. It is not some type of good work.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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All Israel is not of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob but to be called Israel. Most of the scriptures about Israel from that time forward is referring to Jacob as Israel that includes people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. - Rev 5:9. Jacob as Israel represents God's elect. - Rom 9:11. The scriptures you have referenced do pertain to us as Gentiles.
Nope ,thats just 'replacement theology/ Calvinism Jargon .
 

Wansvic

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Did the theif on the cross bypass this rule ?
Thief was under the Old Testament dispensation. As Jesus said repentance and remission of sin would be preached beginning in Jerusalem. That happened on the Day of Pentecost in Jerusalem.
 

Wansvic

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One must ask themselves why such resistance to obeying the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Hummm. Probably has something to do with there being "...none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12