The Pope's pedophile priests

[Matthew]

People don't molest children because they're celibate. That some folks would suggest that as an explanation is baffling. People molest children because they are sexual deviants. The idea that celibacy leads to pedophilia is baffling to hear, especially coming from a bunch of Christians. I'm sure some will offer the argument, "Ah, but it's lifelong celibacy." Pfah I say to that. As a mostly sexually-healthy heterosexual male, I can personally say that celibacy isn't easy for me, even though I (God willing) will most likely end up married.

You are right that celibacy doesn't 'cause' paedophilia but it can be a contributing factor.

It happens in the same way with anger, a restrained temper can lead to a person committing violent crime, if natural and healthy feelings cannot be expressed in a normal way then they all build up and are eventually released in an unnatural and unhealthy way, so if you keep supressing your anger you might one day get in a fight and unintentionally beat someone to death, this has happened.

It's no different with sex crimes, in this context a priest cannot release his sexual frustration with adults or in a public way due to his need to protect his position and so the obvious outlet is children who he has access too and can subdue to keep his position protected.

Obviously a person must be pre-disposed to finding children sexually attractive, but after years and years of supression sexual identity is easily compromised, and that's one more reason forced celibacy is a bad thing.

 

[Consumed]

You are right that celibacy doesn't 'cause' paedophilia but it can be a contributing factor.

It happens in the same way with anger, a restrained temper can lead to a person committing violent crime, if natural and healthy feelings cannot be expressed in a normal way then they all build up and are eventually released in an unnatural and unhealthy way, so if you keep supressing your anger you might one day get in a fight and unintentionally beat someone to death, this has happened.

It's no different with sex crimes, in this context a priest cannot release his sexual frustration with adults or in a public way due to his need to protect his position and so the obvious outlet is children who he has access too and can subdue to keep his position protected.

Obviously a person must be pre-disposed to finding children sexually attractive, but after years and years of supression sexual identity is easily compromised, and that's one more reason forced celibacy is a bad thing.

well written post brother,

 

[imoss]

Those poor beautiful precious innocent children (including the ones who grew up to be abusers). The Lord gave me the eyes to see my abuser as a young child being abused. In having the ability to see this I was able to truly forgive as I had such compassion for the little boy who he once was. The Catholic Church needs to stop ignoring this and take a stand. When you condone this behavior or hide this behavior you support this behavior, like it or not. This is not just an attack on the Catholic church, this is an attack on our Christian faith. Satan is setting it up quite nicely and knows right where to hit perception of Christs churches. We need to do some serious intercessory prayer against these attacks upon our church's.

Also, with respect to leaving my kids with priest... my husband grew up an alter boy & he would not allow it. I have had 4 babysitters in 9 years, the kids godmother, their grampa, their grandma and their aunt. I will not allow my child to go to scout camp, overnite school trips... stuff like that without myself or my husband being chaperone. Call it overprotective, I sure wish my parents would have been more so.

 

[miktre]

Those poor beautiful precious innocent children (including the ones who grew up to be abusers). The Lord gave me the eyes to see my abuser as a young child being abused. In having the ability to see this I was able to truly forgive as I had such compassion for the little boy who he once was. The Catholic Church needs to stop ignoring this and take a stand. When you condone this behavior or hide this behavior you support this behavior, like it or not. This is not just an attack on the Catholic church, this is an attack on our Christian faith. Satan is setting it up quite nicely and knows right where to hit perception of Christs churches. We need to do some serious intercessory prayer against these attacks upon our church's.

Also, with respect to leaving my kids with priest... my husband grew up an alter boy & he would not allow it. I have had 4 babysitters in 9 years, the kids godmother, their grampa, their grandma and their aunt. I will not allow my child to go to scout camp, overnite school trips... stuff like that without myself or my husband being chaperone. Call it overprotective, I sure wish my parents would have been more so.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being overprotective when you love your kids.
Theres so much at stake and we as parents owe it to our kids to do our best to protect them.

 

[Consumed]

I don't think there is anything wrong with being overprotective when you love your kids.
Theres so much at stake and we as parents owe it to our kids to do our best to protect them.

children are a gift from God, like all His gifts we are accountable for being good stewards, i asked a (close)friend to watch my three old as she was swimming, i turned around, poured a drink, turned back, gone, asked him "where is emmagrace", he replied "o behind the jetty" got to her just in time, half drowned, verge of unconciousness.. true testimony. Watch over to me means I watch over them, no one cares as a parent does.

 

[imoss]

alexsandor... wow! Praise the Lord for emmagrace! When a close call like that happens you go through all the feelings of loss in a split second, its truly traumatic and stays with you for life. On a side note, My husband shares your name... he is hungarian, I call him ShawnDor

 

[Consumed]

alexsandor... wow! Praise the Lord for emmagrace! When a close call like that happens you go through all the feelings of loss in a split second, its truly traumatic and stays with you for life. On a side note, My husband shares your name... he is hungarian, I call him ShawnDor

i get teary when ever i think how close it was to loosing her, havent told my wife even til this day, that troubles me in itself, yet i only want to guard her heart (and my life lol cause i was still responsible regardless) watch over them with the eye of an eagle,

 

[Co_IsaaC]

well said brother!! the best quote ever! praise the lord for ppl that read the bible!!

1 timothy 4:1-3
"now the holy spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe; they will follow lying spirits and teachings that come from DEMONS. these teachers are hypocrites and liars. they pretend to be religious, but their consciences are dead. they will said it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods...Since anything that God created, is good we shount reject any of it"

Genesis 2:18

"and the LORD GOD said, it is not good for the man to be alone; i will make him a helper comparable to him"

Matthew 19:4
"Havent you read the scriptures???? Jesus replied ""they record that from the beginning "God made them male and female.5 and he said "this explains why a man leaves his father and his mother and is joined to his wife and the two are united into one".

man jesus is so clearly they have not read the scriptures!

if that is not clear enough nothing will be for those supporting catholic celibacy idk what would be, Just the holy spirit tru the scripture, but they dont read it.

also paul, probably a widower why??
because he was in the army with a high rank. ppl needed to be married for that rank. theologians agree that he h=was a widower, and he decided to stay like that!
u dont like that investigate rankings in paul times for the army and u will find out is in history not just the bible.
also for those, posting links supporting catholic celibacy and stuff! hope they would become Real christians, and be convicted, or... just find a CATHOLIC CHAT.

it is funny how there was that one post last time, from a catholic guy, saying that catholics were christians and rite here we see catholics saying the contrary....

 

[Consumed]

well said brother!! the best quote ever! praise the lord for ppl that read the bible!!

1 timothy 4:1-3
"now the holy spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from what we believe; they will follow lying spirits and teachings that come from DEMONS. these teachers are hypocrites and liars. they pretend to be religious, but their consciences are dead. they will said it is wrong to be married and wrong to eat certain foods...Since anything that God created, is good we shount reject any of it"

Genesis 2:18

"and the LORD GOD said, it is not good for the man to be alone; i will make him a helper comparable to him"

Matthew 19:4
"Havent you read the scriptures???? Jesus replied ""they record that from the beginning "God made them male and female.5 and he said "this explains why a man leaves his father and his mother and is joined to his wife and the two are united into one".

man jesus is so clearly they have not read the scriptures!

if that is not clear enough nothing will be for those supporting catholic celibacy idk what would be, Just the holy spirit tru the scripture, but they dont read it.

also paul, probably a widower why??
because he was in the army with a high rank. ppl needed to be married for that rank. theologians agree that he h=was a widower, and he decided to stay like that!
u dont like that investigate rankings in paul times for the army and u will find out is in history not just the bible.
also for those, posting links supporting catholic celibacy and stuff! hope they would become Real christians, and be convicted, or... just find a CATHOLIC CHAT.

it is funny how there was that one post last time, from a catholic guy, saying that catholics were christians and rite here we see catholics saying the contrary....

people who dont read the scriptures are like the ones who said " you go up the mountain, whatever He says we will do", no different. blind leading blind then takes hold for one teaches the other, i love when Jesus says, "you have heard it spoken in you ear" but when the whole time IT IS WRITTEN is the foundation of our faith, and that only comes by reading what actually is written, not what someone says is, thats why churches encourage their congregations to turn to the verse they preach on, black and white that it actually says what it says

 

[dscherck]

If they ever bothered to read the Bible they would know that to forbid marriage is a demonic doctrine. (1 Tim. 4:1ff).

Actually, Catholics don't forbid marriage. It's not like we hold people's families hostage and say, "You're going to be a priest and not get married or else!" People CHOOSE to become members of religious orders. As Our Lord Himself said, "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it" (Matt. 19:11-12) Emphasis mine

Paul, while writing to the Corinthians actually argues that being unmarried is a good thing!
Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (1 Cor. 7:27-34). Emphasis mine

And these are just two instances from Scripture. There's plenty more. So it's ridiculous to think that celibacy is non-scriptural. In fact, we can see in Paul's 1st letter to Timothy the beginnings of women religious, AKA nuns. Look at 1st Timothy chapter 5 where he talks about widows. "The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help." This is an example of the first contemplative nuns. You'll see later that Paul warns not to add younger widows to this list for fear of them breaking their vows by wanting to remarry. This of course implies that there is a list of widows who have pledged not to remarry and instead prays day and night.

 

[dscherck]

Hi Dscherck,

I have long been an admirer of your posts and of your occasional visits to the main chat room - although I haven't seen you there in quite some time. On those occasions when you were there, I've always felt empowered by listening to whatever you had to say. Thank you for contributing to my thread.

You abridged my quote by leaving out the word "sisterly" which preceded the word "concern". My sentence reads, in full: "I submit these comments motivated by Christian love and sisterly concern for my many Catholic friends and relatives whose fellowship continues to enrich my life."

For you to categorize my intentions as Church-bashing - and to attribute my motivation to pretense - is unwarranted and grieves me no end. It may well be that we will forever be at odds with regard to the hierarchical role in the pedophile scandal cover-up. I readily concede that my feelings in this matter derive from being a woman; I regard positions contrary to mine as being beyond the pale. That you would have contrary views is no reason for either of us to impute improper, false, or misleading motives to the other.

So let us continue - harboring no ill will - with the discussion at hand.
Peace be with you, Dscherck, my brother; I look forward to meeting again with you someday, when I shall greet and salute you with the sisterly affection, admiration, and respect to which you are entitled.

KayCee

My dear sister in Christ.

May the blessings of the Lord shine upon you and your loved ones this day and every day. I apologize if my words seemed harsh. I fear that at times, my desire to defend those unjustly slandered clashes with my need to remain charitable in my words. I am sure that your words come from a desire to serve the Catholic community. And your obvious zeal for the Lord is something that all Christians should aspire to. That said, I do feel that in this instance, Pope Benedict has been unjustly accused.

I was fortunate to see Pope Benedict when he visited the USA and attended the Mass he celebrated in Washington DC. He addressed the sexual abuse scandal there frankly and it was quite clear from the emotion in his voice when speaking of these horrifying cases that he was troubled by them. Later it came out that he personally met with some of the victims in private to listen to their stories and pray with them. Indeed, under his guidance the Church has worked incredibly hard to root out these miscreants who would abuse the trust of Christian families and to comfort the victims. If you read the articles and links I have supplied, you'll find that contrary to the NYT article, there is substantial evidence that the Church has taken these abuse claims seriously and is working very hard to effect justice.

Child sexual abuse is a horrific thing. I've been blessed because none of my family has been directly touched by it, but I have close friends who were plagued by this evil so I too am aware of it's devastating effects. And while there were obvious mistakes made in certain cases, these do not reflect badly on Pope Benedict in my mind. When he was made aware of these cases he always took prompt and proper action. In fact, while the NYT article by Ms. Dowd tries hard to make the claim Pope Benedict ignored the issue, the very documents they publish and cite instead show the opposite. Take a look at the link from the NC Register I posted on the first page of this thread and you'll see a much clearer picture of what transpired in the incidents regarding Fr. Murphy.

 

[Consumed]

was just thinking on the this thread and come to me that we should be edifying His church, many members to the body, Jesus made clear that when told of someone casting out demons in His name that didnt follow them that as long as they called on His name they were for Him not against, i dont agree with Catholic doctrine, yet they still call on the name of Jesus. Pope John Paul2nd said on being made pope, walked out onto the balcony and declared in his croaky sweet voice, "its all about Jesus".......... Billy Graham was there was quoted as saying "he is an evangelist" 80million converts to catholism during his tenure as Pope is accredited to his leadership over the 20yrs give or take a yr

What man does cant be held accountable to the whole church as per say. we are responsible for our own actions. Catholic church has had a chequered past thruout history im sure we all can agree on yet it still stands, they still call on the name of Jesus, sent missionaries all over the world over the centuries and im sure do alot of good that they dont broadcast for vain glory sake.

im convicted, thank you Jesus

 

[superdave5221]

There's a very strong scriptural argument supporting celibacy for people who dedicate their lives to serving the church. Our Lord Himself tells us that there will be people who will forsake marriage for the kingdom of heaven. And indeed we see the Apostle Paul telling us, "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (1 Cor 7:27-34).

For a more in depth look into the Catholic understanding of celibacy and priesthood I would recommend this link: http://www.catholic.com/library/Celibacy_and_the_Priesthood.asp It explains the Catholic teaching and is filled with Scriptural references.

If you look a little earlier in that passage, you will see that Paul clearly states that it is for the present time, (his or Apostolic time) only.

1 Cor. 7: 25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. 26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be . 27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed . Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. 28 But and if thou marry , thou hast not sinned ; and if a virgin marry , she hath not sinned

1 Cor. 7: 8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain , let them marry : for it is better to marry than to burn (with lust), parantheses added

 

[MahogonySnail]

there's no connection between celibacy and pedopihilia that is rubbish, otherwise the rate of pedophilia would be much higher.

 

[superdave5221]

there's no connection between celibacy and pedopihilia that is rubbish, otherwise the rate of pedophilia would be much higher.

You may be right, although I know of no scientific or medical evidence in support of, or against it.

I think the problem in the Catholic church is more one of organization. Just as governments become more corrupt with size, so does any organization. If one looks at the structure of the Christian church in Apostolic times, there was no centralized organization of the church. Each Christian church was autonomous, being ruled by the elders. Even in cases where the Apostles were called to a "laying on of hands" of local elders, it was only to impart spiritual gifts. The elders themselves were selected locally, and not by the Apostles. There is no indication anywhere in the pattern of the early church of a centralized heirarchy. This was a man made corruption begining in the second century.

It would be much more difficult in churches with local autonomy for such abuses to develop and perpetuate themselves over long periods of time, as has been seen in the centralized Catholic church.

 

[Matthew]

there's no connection between celibacy and pedopihilia that is rubbish, otherwise the rate of pedophilia would be much higher.

What is your basis for that exactly?

No countries government has accurate statistics on the levels of sexual abuse of minors because so much is never reported and some isn't reported until the victim is in later life, so the known levels are probably less than what is actually occuring.
Also, is there any recording of the levels of those living a celibate lifestyle?, without accurate knowledge I fail to see how that is anything but a baseless asumption.

Please correct me as I'm curious to know.

 

[Jordan9]

"Hey guys, I'm off to have premarital sex. Don't worry, it's ok. If I remained celibate any longer, I would have hurt a child."

Do you not see how counter-Christian and ridiculous that statement is, Matthew et al.?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Since Catholic is the largest institution the rate of abuses can be expected to be higher. Catholic institutions do not necessarily employ the most pious , anyone with an education degree can teach in a catholic school for example.

I doubt that any priest becomes a pedophile due to their priesthood environment. It is more likely they were pedophilic or had these tendencies before signing up to the priesthood. Pedophiles would probably deliberately become a priest to be around young children.

 

[MahogonySnail]

What is your basis for that exactly?

No countries government has accurate statistics on the levels of sexual abuse of minors because so much is never reported and some isn't reported until the victim is in later life, so the known levels are probably less than what is actually occuring.
Also, is there any recording of the levels of those living a celibate lifestyle?, without accurate knowledge I fail to see how that is anything but a baseless asumption.

Like Jordan said, it is rediculous to suggest that remaining celibate would lead to someone seeking out young children to molest. It's like saying that a husband and wife sleeping together only once every two months causes a husband to turn gay. I think like rape, pedophilia is more about desire to control and exert power than fulfillment of sexual urges. There has to be something messed up in their heads for them to do this, before they become priests, I doubt being celibate causes it.

 

[superdave5221]

"Hey guys, I'm off to have premarital sex. Don't worry, it's ok. If I remained celibate any longer, I would have hurt a child."

Do you not see how counter-Christian and ridiculous that statement is, Matthew et al.?

I agree with you and Mahogany that there is no connection between celibacy and pedophilia. But your simple argument is just as ridiculous. Matthew is speaking of tendencies, not something that is all inclusive. In other words, drinking alcohol can lead to alcoholism, however not everyone who drinks will become an alcoholic.