The Purpose of the Gift of Divers Tongues

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,531
113
#61
What you have received as truth is deception Roger.

And wisdom/ knowledge is a gift of Holy Spirit.
Read the bible and know that knowledge comes from the knowledge of the word of God. The Holy Spirit give understanding of the word of God which leads to wisdom. What you claim as experience is far too unreliable to replace what God has given through His word. As long as you reject Gods word your refuse instruction, knowledge and wisdom.

Ps 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#62
and wisdom cries out in the streets

don't burn the oil late

God gives sleep to His beloved
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#63
The scripture I quotes said no man ever was saved because of the sacrifice of animals or any part of the law. Do you agree with this or not?



Notice the words I bolded

Fell on and received

This is NOT baptism..this is ANOINT

Look to the law

What happened to Moses and all the priests

They were washed in the river jordan (represented being baptized by the HS on and after the day of pentecost)
They were anointed with the holy oil being poured on their head (represented the HS who is poured on believers in Christ on and after the day of pentecost)

As I said we are straying off the subject

If you bear with me I will paraphrase the purpose of the law to my understanding of the scriptures
Before Moses there was no written Word of God or any set instructions written down
It was only through Moses revealed His Name- Jehovah
The Israelites had been in 400yrs in Bondage having limited knowledge of the God of their forefathers. They had known the Egyptians gods and their rituals.
After the exodus God designed the laws eg 10 Commandments so on as a means to instruct the Israelites on how He wish's them to serve Him, to live according to His Ways.
Basically God was saying "I am God Almighty there is no other God but me, if you serve Me according to My instructions/laws, I will be your God and you will My people
Now in the Moses generation to the Joshua generation the people were eye witness to the events from Egypt to the exodus, to the Promise land
They had faith in their God they knew the impotence and purpose of the law. They had personally witness the power of God.
In Moses's time straight after the Laws were read and people knew, God was very strict, you broke the law you were dead. It was Godly fear God was instilling into people to serve Him
But God is merciful, He knew man, only a few had the power of God operating in their lives and some did fail
God designed the animal sacrifice as a means of atonement who man when he breaks His Commandments
The scriptures state when God smelt the sweet smelling savour of the sacrifice preformed according His Laws it pleased him, man was forgiven for His sins

But the generations after Moses and Joshua who did not experience the events during their times, they only knew their God through the laws.
After thousands of years the laws became a ritual, faith in the God was no longer expressed, it more faith based rituals on a God (still happening today)
The writer of Hebrews explains how the law became weak but it has its purpose even for today.
God knew this, that why He prophesied the coming of His Son, Jesus, who was the final and only atonement God will accept for sin.
Under the new covenant the laws will be written in our Hearts not on tables of stone
The Holy spirit will convict us of sin and we can ask forgiveness by the Blood of the Lamb
This is the huge difference between one who confess they are Christian and one who is Born Again
Those who confess they are Christians but are not willing to live in obedience to His Word, do not believe Jesus is God (still living in Egypt)
Those who are Born Again have entered the Promise land, they believe in the Promises of God



Yes I know some preachers preach crossing of the Red Sea symbolized the water baptism but others also preach the crossing of the Jericho by Joshua, symbolized the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
For it was the Joshua generation they entered the Promise Land.
As I have stated, you believe what you believe is correct and I'll have what I believe

God Bless
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,489
9,424
113
#64
For over twenty five I have been baptised in the Holy Ghost.
All believers have been baptized WITH the Holy Ghost. That is called "the gift of the Holy Ghost". But tongues are NOT for all believers, and modern tongues are NOT languages. Had the KJV and the Geneva Bible used the word "language" consistently, we would not have any controversies. So here is what Paul was actually saying:

HOLMAN CHRISTIAN STANDARD BIBLE (1 Corinthians 14)
1
Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and above all that you may prophesy.
2 For the person who speaks in [another] language is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.
3 But the person who prophesies speaks to people for edification, encouragement, and consolation.
4 The person who speaks in [another] language builds himself up, but he who prophesies builds up the church.
5 I wish all of you spoke in other languages, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in languages, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up.
6 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in [other] languages, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you with a revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
7 Even inanimate things producing sounds-whether flute or harp-if they don't make a distinction in the notes, how will what is played on the flute or harp be recognized?
8 In fact, if the trumpet makes an unclear sound, who will prepare for battle?
9 In the same way, unless you use your tongue for intelligible speech, how will what is spoken be known? For you will be speaking into the air.
10 There are doubtless many different kinds of languages in the world, and all have meaning.
11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker will be a foreigner to me.
12 So also you-since you are zealous in matters of the spirit, seek to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore the person who speaks in [another] language should pray that he can interpret.
14 For if I pray in [another] language, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with my understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with my understanding.
16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will the uninformed person say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
17 For you may very well be giving thanks, but the other person is not being built up.
18 I thank God that I speak in [other] languages more than all of you;
19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in [another] language.
20 Brothers, don't be childish in your thinking, but be infants in evil and adult in your thinking.
21 It is written in the law: By people of other languages and by the lips of foreigners, I will speak to this people; and even then, they will not listen to Me, says the Lord.
22 It follows that speaking in other languages is intended as a sign, not to believers but to unbelievers. But prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers.
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together, and all are speaking in [other] languages, and people who are uninformed or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
24 But if all are prophesying, and some unbeliever or uninformed person comes in, he is convicted by all and is judged by all.
25 The secrets of his heart will be revealed, and as a result he will fall down on his face and worship God, proclaiming, "God is really among you."
26 How is it then, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, [another] language, or an interpretation. All things must be done for edification.
27 If any person speaks in [another] language, there should be only two, or at the most three, each in turn, and someone must interpret.
28 But if there is no interpreter, that person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God.
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should evaluate.
30 But if something has been revealed to another person sitting there, the first prophet should be silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that everyone may learn and everyone may be encouraged.
32 And the prophets' spirits are under the control of the prophets,
33 since God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
35 And if they want to learn something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church meeting.
36 Did the word of God originate from you, or did it come to you only?
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, he should recognize that what I write to you is the Lord's command.
38 But if anyone ignores this, he will be ignored.
39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in [other] languages.
40 But everything must be done decently and in order.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#65
As I said we are straying off the subject

If you bear with me I will paraphrase the purpose of the law to my understanding of the scriptures
Before Moses there was no written Word of God or any set instructions written down
It was only through Moses revealed His Name- Jehovah
The Israelites had been in 400yrs in Bondage having limited knowledge of the God of their forefathers. They had known the Egyptians gods and their rituals.
After the exodus God designed the laws eg 10 Commandments so on as a means to instruct the Israelites on how He wish's them to serve Him, to live according to His Ways.
Basically God was saying "I am God Almighty there is no other God but me, if you serve Me according to My instructions/laws, I will be your God and you will My people
Now in the Moses generation to the Joshua generation the people were eye witness to the events from Egypt to the exodus, to the Promise land
They had faith in their God they knew the impotence and purpose of the law. They had personally witness the power of God.
In Moses's time straight after the Laws were read and people knew, God was very strict, you broke the law you were dead. It was Godly fear God was instilling into people to serve Him
But God is merciful, He knew man, only a few had the power of God operating in their lives and some did fail
God designed the animal sacrifice as a means of atonement who man when he breaks His Commandments
The scriptures state when God smelt the sweet smelling savour of the sacrifice preformed according His Laws it pleased him, man was forgiven for His sins

But the generations after Moses and Joshua who did not experience the events during their times, they only knew their God through the laws.
After thousands of years the laws became a ritual, faith in the God was no longer expressed, it more faith based rituals on a God (still happening today)
The writer of Hebrews explains how the law became weak but it has its purpose even for today.
God knew this, that why He prophesied the coming of His Son, Jesus, who was the final and only atonement God will accept for sin.
Under the new covenant the laws will be written in our Hearts not on tables of stone
The Holy spirit will convict us of sin and we can ask forgiveness by the Blood of the Lamb
This is the huge difference between one who confess they are Christian and one who is Born Again
Those who confess they are Christians but are not willing to live in obedience to His Word, do not believe Jesus is God (still living in Egypt)
Those who are Born Again have entered the Promise land, they believe in the Promises of God
Thank you. I think I see..

So are you saying in certain times, people were saved by the blood sacrifice of animals? And others were saved by the law?

But before moses, we were saved by belief?

How are we saved today? What purpose or part does the law (any law for that matter) have in our salvation?




Yes I know some preachers preach crossing of the Red Sea symbolized the water baptism but others also preach the crossing of the Jericho by Joshua, symbolized the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
For it was the Joshua generation they entered the Promise Land.
As I have stated, you believe what you believe is correct and I'll have what I believe

God Bless
The bible says we are priests of God

What I showed is what had to happen for a priest be become a oriest

Neither of the crossings had anything to do with anyone becoming a priest, so they would not fit
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,531
113
#66
and wisdom cries out in the streets

don't burn the oil late

God gives sleep to His beloved
Pr 14:6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#67
Thank you. I think I see..

So are you saying in certain times, people were saved by the blood sacrifice of animals? And others were saved by the law?

But before moses, we were saved by belief?

How are we saved today? What purpose or part does the law (any law for that matter) have in our salvation?





The bible says we are priests of God

What I showed is what had to happen for a priest be become a oriest

Neither of the crossings had anything to do with anyone becoming a priest, so they would not fit
No I was showing my understanding of the scriptures purpose of the law and the purpose of the animal sacrifice,
If the Israelites abide in the commandments they would be saved.
As for the times before Moses, which book did Noah, Enoch, Abraham and so on read to believe God.
They believed God because God had personally revealed Himself to them.
In Moses time God not revealed Himself not only through signs and wonders but through the law. The spoken Word for that period, they were His law

If one thinks the law has no significance for today, go and break every law of the 10 commandments, tell the wives to commit adultery, our kids to steal kill, murder and lie.
But as I said we straying the topic.
We are are arguing using scriptures which is wrong
You have your faith I have mine. Lets keep that way and move on

God Bless
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#69
No I was showing my understanding of the scriptures purpose of the law and the purpose of the animal sacrifice,
If the Israelites abide in the commandments they would be saved.
As for the times before Moses, which book did Noah, Enoch, Abraham and so on read to believe God.
They believed God because God had personally revealed Himself to them.
In Moses time God not revealed Himself not only through signs and wonders but through the law. The spoken Word for that period, they were His law

If one thinks the law has no significance for today, go and break every law of the 10 commandments, tell the wives to commit adultery, our kids to steal kill, murder and lie.
But as I said we straying the topic.
We are are arguing using scriptures which is wrong
You have your faith I have mine. Lets keep that way and move on

God Bless
You do realise that Moses was given the requirement of what it would take for you to be made righteous by the law do you not? And anyone who did not do this would be cursed?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#70
Pr 14:6 A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes, sadly though, "It is easier to fool a person than get them to believe they have been fooled."
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#71
Scripture never teaches us to seek experiences but to trust in the word of God. The heart of man is desperately wicked and who can know it? If you are going to argue from experiences apart from Gods word we have nothing to discuss.

You cannot refute the truth that you have not rightly divided the scriptures in Isaiah 28 and consequently your suppositions regarding 1 Corinthians is flawed from the start.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
To gain experience is to be a doer of the Word,
Bro you are talking with someone who been praying in the spirit for 25yrs with 7 versions
If you have a problem with that, take it with God, He gave the gifts.
The problem is you don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit
Ask God if there such thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit with a truthful heart because your mind is already set

Beware: 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,014
707
113
#72
To gain experience is to be a doer of the Word,
Bro you are talking with someone who been praying in the spirit for 25yrs with 7 versions
If you have a problem with that, take it with God, He gave the gifts.
The problem is you don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit
Ask God if there such thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit with a truthful heart because your mind is already set

Beware: 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The problem i see is in the fact that that what you are talking about, is not more then 119 years old. And a doctrine which not was taught in the bible.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#73
To gain experience is to be a doer of the Word,
Bro you are talking with someone who been praying in the spirit for 25yrs with 7 versions
If you have a problem with that, take it with God, He gave the gifts.
The problem is you don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit
Ask God if there such thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit with a truthful heart because your mind is already set

Beware: 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
This is a futile argument. And it does not support your case. In fact, it hurts your case..

1 question. Do you understand what you pray when you pray in the spirit? Do you hear the words with knowledge of what is said?
 

mystic7

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2013
289
64
28
#74
This is a futile argument. And it does not support your case. In fact, it hurts your case..

1 question. Do you understand what you pray when you pray in the spirit? Do you hear the words with knowledge of what is said?
Obviously you never read my post
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,014
707
113
#75
To gain experience is to be a doer of the Word,
Bro you are talking with someone who been praying in the spirit for 25yrs with 7 versions
If you have a problem with that, take it with God, He gave the gifts.
The problem is you don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit
Ask God if there such thing as the baptism of the Holy Spirit with a truthful heart because your mind is already set

Beware: 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Some following their expieriences their whole life long. Is this an guarantie that they are right?
As I said your are following a doctrine which was foundet in 1900 ad plus-minus.
The montanism was an doctrine which was foundet in 160 ad and least till the 6th century. Their followors followed their life long a false doctrine and thought their are right.
So expieriences can lead you also in a wrong direction.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
20,961
11,467
113
#79
All believers have been baptized WITH the Holy Ghost. That is called "the gift of the Holy Ghost". But tongues are NOT for all believers, and modern tongues are NOT languages. Had the KJV and the Geneva Bible used the word "language" consistently, we would not have any controversies. So here is what Paul was actually saying:

HOLMAN CHRISTIAN STANDARD BIBLE (1 Corinthians 14)
1
Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts, and above all that you may prophesy.
2 For the person who speaks in [another] language is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.
3 But the person who prophesies speaks to people for edification, encouragement, and consolation.
4 The person who speaks in [another] language builds himself up, but he who prophesies builds up the church.
5 I wish all of you spoke in other languages, but even more that you prophesied. The person who prophesies is greater than the person who speaks in languages, unless he interprets so that the church may be built up.
6 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in [other] languages, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you with a revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
7 Even inanimate things producing sounds-whether flute or harp-if they don't make a distinction in the notes, how will what is played on the flute or harp be recognized?
8 In fact, if the trumpet makes an unclear sound, who will prepare for battle?
9 In the same way, unless you use your tongue for intelligible speech, how will what is spoken be known? For you will be speaking into the air.
10 There are doubtless many different kinds of languages in the world, and all have meaning.
11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker will be a foreigner to me.
12 So also you-since you are zealous in matters of the spirit, seek to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore the person who speaks in [another] language should pray that he can interpret.
14 For if I pray in [another] language, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with my understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with my understanding.
16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will the uninformed person say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
17 For you may very well be giving thanks, but the other person is not being built up.
18 I thank God that I speak in [other] languages more than all of you;
19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, in order to teach others also, than 10,000 words in [another] language.
20 Brothers, don't be childish in your thinking, but be infants in evil and adult in your thinking.
21 It is written in the law: By people of other languages and by the lips of foreigners, I will speak to this people; and even then, they will not listen to Me, says the Lord.
22 It follows that speaking in other languages is intended as a sign, not to believers but to unbelievers. But prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers.
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together, and all are speaking in [other] languages, and people who are uninformed or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
24 But if all are prophesying, and some unbeliever or uninformed person comes in, he is convicted by all and is judged by all.
25 The secrets of his heart will be revealed, and as a result he will fall down on his face and worship God, proclaiming, "God is really among you."
26 How is it then, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, [another] language, or an interpretation. All things must be done for edification.
27 If any person speaks in [another] language, there should be only two, or at the most three, each in turn, and someone must interpret.
28 But if there is no interpreter, that person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God.
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should evaluate.
30 But if something has been revealed to another person sitting there, the first prophet should be silent.
31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that everyone may learn and everyone may be encouraged.
32 And the prophets' spirits are under the control of the prophets,
33 since God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.
35 And if they want to learn something, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church meeting.
36 Did the word of God originate from you, or did it come to you only?
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, he should recognize that what I write to you is the Lord's command.
38 But if anyone ignores this, he will be ignored.
39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in [other] languages.
40 But everything must be done decently and in order.
Speaking in a language that happens to be foreign to the people in your congregation is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. Even unbelievers can do that.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#80
Speaking in a language that happens to be foreign to the people in your congregation is not a gift of the Holy Spirit. Even unbelievers can do that.
Yup, but it is still a natural gift and ability, this is what Paul is addressing, like steermanship.

The gifts of "steersmanship" and "helps," these were essential to the upbuilding of the Corinthian church and were not miraculous abilities.

This relates to your question concerning 1 Cor 12 on another thread somewhere????