The Rapture Is here:]
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A
"Saves us from tribulation"? Horrible things? Blain was the scripture written to the early church? Yes!
Even to the all those killed, fed to lions and human candles? Death is not the end Blain. Tell me how that
sounds just for millions of believers to suffer death since Pentecost, then God sends Jesus back
early so future western wimps wont suffer tribulation. Jesus promised us persecution, and said some will
ditch Him to avoid persecution. So its time to change up your view of the rapture/second coming at least
in its reason, huh?
Even to the all those killed, fed to lions and human candles? Death is not the end Blain. Tell me how that
sounds just for millions of believers to suffer death since Pentecost, then God sends Jesus back
early so future western wimps wont suffer tribulation. Jesus promised us persecution, and said some will
ditch Him to avoid persecution. So its time to change up your view of the rapture/second coming at least
in its reason, huh?
That's not what the NT states:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him (rapture). . .that day will not come until the rebellion (apostasy) occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed." (2Th 2:1, 3)
The church is raptured after the man of lawlessness is revealed.
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him (rapture). . .that day will not come until the rebellion (apostasy) occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed." (2Th 2:1, 3)
The church is raptured after the man of lawlessness is revealed.
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Question to those that believe Christ will return BEFORE the tribulation period.....
Do you believe the following (2) events are one in the same?
2 Thes.2
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
1 Cor.15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Do you believe the gathering mentioned above in 2 Thes.2 is when the change will happen at the twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor.15?
.
Do you believe the following (2) events are one in the same?
2 Thes.2
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
1 Cor.15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Do you believe the gathering mentioned above in 2 Thes.2 is when the change will happen at the twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor.15?
.
W
You dont want to ask questions like this Aristocat
. Pre tribs heads will explode things not making sense to them is the very evidence that they think there right. The Lord is coming and gpoing and coming and going and coming and going I think HE is going to be tired. Or maybe HE only comes TWICE you know THE LAMB then THE LION THE SERVANT then THE KING. I will just take GOD at HIS word TWICE.
. Pre tribs heads will explode things not making sense to them is the very evidence that they think there right. The Lord is coming and gpoing and coming and going and coming and going I think HE is going to be tired. Or maybe HE only comes TWICE you know THE LAMB then THE LION THE SERVANT then THE KING. I will just take GOD at HIS word TWICE.
A
Read the parable of the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins many will be foolish hard hearted like the parable of the hearts of the sower into the different conditions of the soil ( soil conditions are a reflection of our hearts) hardened, rocky, weeds and tares,shallowness and good ground all conditions within us. Wisdom is to ask humbly that the Lord will remove these rocks, hardness, weeds, shallowness and tares from our hearts to be wise and receptive to what we are unaware of blinded to or do not know from ignorance or hard heartedness or from not being completed or mature in Him. So that we will be wise virgins entering into the wedding feast of His love, presenting to Him the fruits of His labor in and through us to full delicious (welcome my good faithful, pleasing to God servant enter into His Kingdom) mature fruits of the Holy Spirit.
So who is the bride? Blain you seem to claim your part of the bride. Are you ACCORDING to scripture?
JEREMIAH 2 [31] O generation, see ye the word of the Lord. Have I been A WILDERNESS UNTO ISRAEL? a land of darkness? wherefore say my people, We are lords; we will come no more unto thee? [32] Can a maid forget her ornaments, OR A BRIDE HER ATTIRE? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.
JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
REVELATION 21 {9} And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE. {10} And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, {11} Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; {12} And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of THE TWELVE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL:
Well Blain.....which tribe are you from?
JEREMIAH 2 [31] O generation, see ye the word of the Lord. Have I been A WILDERNESS UNTO ISRAEL? a land of darkness? wherefore say my people, We are lords; we will come no more unto thee? [32] Can a maid forget her ornaments, OR A BRIDE HER ATTIRE? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.
JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
REVELATION 21 {9} And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE. {10} And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, {11} Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; {12} And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of THE TWELVE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL:
Well Blain.....which tribe are you from?
Scripture below will happen in the twinkling of an eye
ISAIAH 27 {12} And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. {13} And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.
Last trumpet-the gathering-off to the 1000yr period of rest
ISAIAH 27 {12} And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. {13} And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.
Last trumpet-the gathering-off to the 1000yr period of rest
Hey Elin, no rapture found here
2 THES. 2 [1]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; [4] WHO OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2THES.2 {a falling away} {bad guy exalts himself above all that is called God}
DANIEL 11 {many shall fall} {bad guy exalts himself above every God}
DANIEL 11 [32] And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. [33] And THEY THAT UNDERSTAND AMONG THE PEOPLE SHALL INSTRUCT MANY: YET THEY SHALL FALL by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. [34] Now WHEN THEY SHALL FALL, THEY SHALL BE HOLPEN WITH A LITTLE HELP: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. [35] And SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [36] And the king shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY GOD, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
So you see the falling away { 2Thes.2} in Daniel. In Daniel do you see ANYTHING that depicts a rapture? NOPE! We know these scriptures are speaking of the same event as bad guy exalts himself above all Gods in both scriptures and this will happen only once. As you can plainly see its a falling away from the truth. It is not a rapture as you claim
HOSEA 4 [3] Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. [4] Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. [5] Therefore shalt thou FALL IN THE DAY, and the prophet also shall FALL WITH THEE IN THE NIGHT, and I will destroy thy mother. [6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: SEEING THOU HAST FORGOTTEN THE LAW OF THY GOD, I WILL ALSO FORGET THY CHILDREN.
Hosea 4 points out why they are falling way. They have forgotten Gods law. Thats already happened
2 THES. 2 [1]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; [4] WHO OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2THES.2 {a falling away} {bad guy exalts himself above all that is called God}
DANIEL 11 {many shall fall} {bad guy exalts himself above every God}
DANIEL 11 [32] And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. [33] And THEY THAT UNDERSTAND AMONG THE PEOPLE SHALL INSTRUCT MANY: YET THEY SHALL FALL by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. [34] Now WHEN THEY SHALL FALL, THEY SHALL BE HOLPEN WITH A LITTLE HELP: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. [35] And SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [36] And the king shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY GOD, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
So you see the falling away { 2Thes.2} in Daniel. In Daniel do you see ANYTHING that depicts a rapture? NOPE! We know these scriptures are speaking of the same event as bad guy exalts himself above all Gods in both scriptures and this will happen only once. As you can plainly see its a falling away from the truth. It is not a rapture as you claim
HOSEA 4 [3] Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. [4] Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. [5] Therefore shalt thou FALL IN THE DAY, and the prophet also shall FALL WITH THEE IN THE NIGHT, and I will destroy thy mother. [6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: SEEING THOU HAST FORGOTTEN THE LAW OF THY GOD, I WILL ALSO FORGET THY CHILDREN.
Hosea 4 points out why they are falling way. They have forgotten Gods law. Thats already happened
Well, when I search the Scriptures, this is what I find:
1) There is not one verse in all of Scripure that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
However, there are several that specifically locate it after the tribulation.
2 The NT locates the rapture with the final coming of Jesus in judgment at the end of time (2Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8).
3) The NT states there will be no appearance of Jesus until his coming in judgment (Ac 3:21; Heb 9:28).
4) The NT states that our coming salvation (of Ro 8:18-23 and 1Co 15:52-58) will be given to us when Jesus is revealed (1Pe 1:5, 13), which is the rapture at the judgment (Lk 17:24-37; 2Th 1:7-10, 2:1, 3, 8).
5) The NT reveals that Jesus must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything (Ac 3:21)), which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:10-13), where there is no death (Rev 21;1-4).
6) The NT reveals that Jesus comes only twice, once to atone and once to judge, and not in between (Heb 9:27-28).
So I find no specific Biblical basis for a rapture prior to the tribulation, and much specific Biblical basis for a rapture after the tribulation.
And for those who are concerned about believers experiencing wrath, let me remind you that in all of God's judgments on the world and in its tribulations, God has never removed his people from the sphere of danger, but has protected them in (kept them from) the danger that was occurring in their sphere.
1) Noah in the flood (Ge 7:7),
2) Lot in the plain which was destroyed (Ge 19:17-18, 21, 25) not in the safe mountains,
3) Israel in the plagues (Ex 8:22, 9:4, 26, 10:22-23, 11:7, 12:13),
4) Elijah in the famine (1Kgs 17:1-7),
5) youths in the fiery furnace (Da 3),
6) Daniel in the lions' den (Da 6),
7) woman on the earth (Rev 12:14-16), who is a symbol of God's people in Christ (the male child is the seed of the woman--Ge 3:15, which is the body of Christ).
Their is no specific Biblical basis for removing God's people from the sphere of danger, but much specific Biblical basis for God protecting them in the sphere of danger.
I find no specific Biblical basis for a rapture before the tribulation, nor the removal of God's people from the spheres of danger.
But I do find much specific Biblical basis for a rapture after the tribulation, and God's protection of his people in the spheres of danger.
And that is what my belief is based on.
1) There is not one verse in all of Scripure that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation.
However, there are several that specifically locate it after the tribulation.
2 The NT locates the rapture with the final coming of Jesus in judgment at the end of time (2Th 1:6-10, 2:1-8).
3) The NT states there will be no appearance of Jesus until his coming in judgment (Ac 3:21; Heb 9:28).
4) The NT states that our coming salvation (of Ro 8:18-23 and 1Co 15:52-58) will be given to us when Jesus is revealed (1Pe 1:5, 13), which is the rapture at the judgment (Lk 17:24-37; 2Th 1:7-10, 2:1, 3, 8).
5) The NT reveals that Jesus must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything (Ac 3:21)), which is the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:10-13), where there is no death (Rev 21;1-4).
6) The NT reveals that Jesus comes only twice, once to atone and once to judge, and not in between (Heb 9:27-28).
So I find no specific Biblical basis for a rapture prior to the tribulation, and much specific Biblical basis for a rapture after the tribulation.
And for those who are concerned about believers experiencing wrath, let me remind you that in all of God's judgments on the world and in its tribulations, God has never removed his people from the sphere of danger, but has protected them in (kept them from) the danger that was occurring in their sphere.
1) Noah in the flood (Ge 7:7),
2) Lot in the plain which was destroyed (Ge 19:17-18, 21, 25) not in the safe mountains,
3) Israel in the plagues (Ex 8:22, 9:4, 26, 10:22-23, 11:7, 12:13),
4) Elijah in the famine (1Kgs 17:1-7),
5) youths in the fiery furnace (Da 3),
6) Daniel in the lions' den (Da 6),
7) woman on the earth (Rev 12:14-16), who is a symbol of God's people in Christ (the male child is the seed of the woman--Ge 3:15, which is the body of Christ).
Their is no specific Biblical basis for removing God's people from the sphere of danger, but much specific Biblical basis for God protecting them in the sphere of danger.
I find no specific Biblical basis for a rapture before the tribulation, nor the removal of God's people from the spheres of danger.
But I do find much specific Biblical basis for a rapture after the tribulation, and God's protection of his people in the spheres of danger.
And that is what my belief is based on.
E
Question to those that believe Christ will return BEFORE the tribulation period.....
Do you believe the following (2) events are one in the same?
2 Thes.2
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
1 Cor.15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Do you believe the gathering mentioned above in 2 Thes.2 is when the change will happen at the twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor.15?
.
Do you believe the following (2) events are one in the same?
2 Thes.2
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
1 Cor.15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Do you believe the gathering mentioned above in 2 Thes.2 is when the change will happen at the twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor.15?
.