The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ this SEQUENCE is repeated 3x in this passage (2Th2), as well as being the SAME SEQUENCE as found in 1Th4 and 5
 

holdup

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Dec 3, 2018
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Wow! I provide over 100 verses in that link from my website and your so fearful of truth you do not even open the link but go right to posting an "opinion" because your too fearful to actually open the link because it might contradict your "safe space" :eek:(

Revelation 21:7-8 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

I will not respond to you again until you actually open the link. Then copy and past out of that link a contextual proof for the title of this post and then provide the contextual proof for your silly "thesis" for a pretrib rapture that totally refutes the contextual part of my link you think it actually refutes!!!!
I think it is that if you really has something to offer you would not be so condescending. Is arrogance a normative in here?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I think it is that if you really has something to offer you would not be so condescending. Is arrogance a normative in here?
It seems to be certain groups. Or people from certain groups. (Not everyone from these groups are this way, There are some very humble believers in there) but yeah.
 

holdup

New member
Dec 3, 2018
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Please carefully study every passage in this link as a "sum" from "here a little there a little":

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

The bible does not contradict itself so please obey Father's command on how to be weaned off the breast before posting some "opinion" based on a couple of verses:

Isaiah 28:7-13 And even these reel with wine, and stagger with strong drink; the priest and the prophet reel with strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they stagger with strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. (8) For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. (9) Whom will he teach knowledge? and whom will he make to understand the message? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts? (10) For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little. (11) Nay, but by men of strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people; (12) to whom he said, This is the rest, give ye rest to him that is weary; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. (13) Therefore shall the word of Jehovah be unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little; that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
the web page has no sources, credits, name etc… it’s a opinion blog lol. For all we know it could be a cult or jw’s or something.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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"here's who", who says this about the trinity:

"So the trinity doctrine as it is worded above is false doctrine. A true description of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is:


“Our Father is the Most High God who has a Holy Spirit. He brought forth His Word as the beginning of His creation and declared Him our God under His authority. He then had His Word become flesh as Jesus the Lamb of God who was conceived of Father’s Holy Spirit”

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/02/17/trinity-true-or-false/
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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"here's who", who says this about the trinity:

"So the trinity doctrine as it is worded above is false doctrine. A true description of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is:


“Our Father is the Most High God who has a Holy Spirit. He brought forth His Word as the beginning of His creation and declared Him our God under His authority. He then had His Word become flesh as Jesus the Lamb of God who was conceived of Father’s Holy Spirit”

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/02/17/trinity-true-or-false/

Yep JW thinking...
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Pre-tribbers (such as myself) do not believe the Holy Spirit will not be involved in the tribulation or be present on the earth [but that His role will have changed] any more than we believe that He wasn't present and involved on the earth before Christ was glorified [ not!], according to this verse:

"39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" John 7:39

...instead [of us believing what you've suggested we believe], it is that we believe His role will have changed, for "the Church which is His body" is "SEALED unto the day of redemption"... "until the redemption of 'the purchased possession'..." [that's us], ... that is, "the Church which is His body" is indwelt with His Spirit (and once we are raptured, His role then changes on the earth and His involvement there...)


I do believe it is the Church indwelt/sealed with His Spirit that is referred to where it says (2Th2),

"...until out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." (and his "be revealed" is at the START of the 7-yr trib, according to the other things I've already mentioned in this track... No time now to cover that in any detail...)

Whatever you personally believe about the Holy Spirit there are many in the Pre Trib Camp who have preached and written over the past decades that the Holy Spirit leaves with the church at the rapture its not just what I'm suggesting . I didn't get the idea out of thin air. I am an ex pre tribber and that popular idea was one of many reasons I became one.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
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Whatever you personally believe about the Holy Spirit there are many in the Pre Trib Camp who have preached and written over the past decades that the Holy Spirit leaves with the church at the rapture its not just what I'm suggesting . I didn't get the idea out of thin air. I am an ex pre tribber and that popular idea was one of many reasons I became one.[/QUOTE
The Holy Spirit will come to those who convert after the Rapture and then sadly they will b the ones persecuted by the ac.
 
Nov 22, 2018
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I think it is that if you really has something to offer you would not be so condescending. Is arrogance a normative in here?
What is so condescending about telling a guy to get out of his safe space because he refuses to open a link about the rapture that requires us search the matter through many precepts upon precepts here a little there a little as these scriptures clearly prove:

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Isaiah 28:9-10 Whom will he teach knowledge? and whom will he make to understand the message? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts? (10) For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little.
 

lukeabers

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Dec 6, 2018
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Clearly, the rapture occurs after the tribulation, as is made clear in Daniel 12.

Of course, you have to read Daniel 12 as it is written, without heavy confirmation bias. Naturally...
 
Nov 22, 2018
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the web page has no sources, credits, name etc… it’s a opinion blog lol. For all we know it could be a cult or jw’s or something.
Oh so now we have to have "sources" other than the Word of God:

John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

I highly doubt it's an "opinion" blog when every link contains at least 80% scripture and at most 20% of my words. No sorry I am not a Jehovah witness just because I use the ASV. Funny how you accuse me of being condenscending and then spin right around in your next post and lable my website a "cult". Is that not the definition of hypocrisy!
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Uh, those are pretrib verses
You made a case for a pretrib rapture.
That's pretty silly, especially consider one of the verses I quoted says that the gathering of the saints happens 'after the tribulation of those days' in a passage about the great tribulation.
We agree he returns postrib.
You defy rev 19.....he returns WITH his saints..... No rapture postrib
You defy rev 14
You defy mat 25
You defy the last supper dialog
You defy the 2 escape verses.
I am not defying any of that. Honestly, you come off as rather obnoxious with your declarations and accusations. And you know who the accuser of the brethren is, don't you. Why don't you be a bit more humble and personable about just having a Bible discussion where we can learn. It makes me wonder if the reason you resort to this kind of rhetoric could be insecurity because you do not feel that confident in your position.

If you can spin some verses to fit into the pre-trib scenario, that does not mean that they are actually pretrib. My approach is to show passages of scripture that associate the rapture/gathering with a certain point in time. That then serves as a basis for how we interpret other verses. Pre-tribbers typically filter passages through a pre-trib lens-- thinking of how they work through their pretrib theory, without considering other alternatives.

I am not defying passages in Revelation. If you want to be persuasive, you should at least quote the verses you think are pre-trib, and explain how you fit that into the pre-trib theory. Then we can talk about how that is legit.

Your argument that Jesus returning with His saints disproves prosttrib seems particularly foolish since post-trib since you are arguing the idea that the saints are raptured, meet the Lord with the air, and then return with him.

Is there even a church in Sardis/ Sart now? I mean a congregation, not ruins.
You think those and our others are to be swept off the table to be rejected in favor of your single verse in mat that MUST BE REFITTED to promote a belief that is simply pulled from thin air.
Oh, come on. Pre-trib was developed in the 1800's. The only shred of evidence that someone might have been pre-trib was that Ephraim guy in the 300's who might have just gotten a bit confused about the order of events in the Bible. Darby read an end-times book from a Jesuit priest-- who wasn't pre-trib, and developed the system. There is no evidence the apostles or early church believed in pre-trib.

Pre-tribbers are 'refitting'. And there is no passage that puts a rapture in the sequence of events before the tribulation. I showed you scripture for the gathering after the rapture. You didn't comment on the issue in that last post. Instead, you made accusations.

There were premil believers in the early church like Papias and Justin and early Christians. There was also historic pre-mil, which I understand is quite similar to post-trib aside from post-tribbers believing in or emphasizing an actual rapture.
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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Clearly, the rapture occurs after the tribulation, as is made clear in Daniel 12.

Of course, you have to read Daniel 12 as it is written, without heavy confirmation bias. Naturally...
Question for you. Since God saved Noah from the world wide flood, and Lot and his family from His wrath on S&G, and etc....why would our Heavenly Father who is perfect, punish His faithful children along with degenerate sinners during the GT?
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
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That's pretty silly, especially consider one of the verses I quoted says that the gathering of the saints happens 'after the tribulation of those days' in a passage about the great tribulation.


I am not defying any of that. Honestly, you come off as rather obnoxious with your declarations and accusations. And you know who the accuser of the brethren is, don't you. Why don't you be a bit more humble and personable about just having a Bible discussion where we can learn. It makes me wonder if the reason you resort to this kind of rhetoric could be insecurity because you do not feel that confident in your position.

If you can spin some verses to fit into the pre-trib scenario, that does not mean that they are actually pretrib. My approach is to show passages of scripture that associate the rapture/gathering with a certain point in time. That then serves as a basis for how we interpret other verses. Pre-tribbers typically filter passages through a pre-trib lens-- thinking of how they work through their pretrib theory, without considering other alternatives.

I am not defying passages in Revelation. If you want to be persuasive, you should at least quote the verses you think are pre-trib, and explain how you fit that into the pre-trib theory. Then we can talk about how that is legit.

Your argument that Jesus returning with His saints disproves prosttrib seems particularly foolish since post-trib since you are arguing the idea that the saints are raptured, meet the Lord with the air, and then return with him.

Is there even a church in Sardis/ Sart now? I mean a congregation, not ruins.

You think those and our others are to be swept off the table to be rejected in favor of your single verse in mat that MUST BE REFITTED to promote a belief that is simply pulled from thin air.

You can NOT possibly read all my verses and conclude what you do.
It is erroneous,impossible,and is PROVEN HANDS DOWN to be false

That is WHY the postrib doctrine NEVER,EVER incorporates the heart of heaven......THE BRIDE /GROOM component.

That is WHY postrib rapture doctrine is 90% anti pretrib,the rest is a lifelong 1000 page OT scrambled non issue thesis,or mat 24 rearranged belief system.

Rev 14 read it and ask why you defy 1 thes 4
[/QUOTE]

My, you do spend a lot of time pretending as though this board is full of people of a like mind...

This place is haunted by demons. I'm only here because maybe, just maybe, some Christians would like to get organized instead of fighting solo against the walking dead...
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
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Question for you. Since God saved Noah from the world wide flood, and Lot and his family from His wrath on S&G, and etc....why would our Heavenly Father who is perfect, punish His faithful children along with degenerate sinners during the GT?
Noah survived the flood, he did not escape it. Do you think it was easy living on the ark? Read Revelations concerning the 5th seal and tell me God's opinion on the death of the saints.