The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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should be Isaiah 44:6 (I was looking at the yarn,lol)...
So how are yus applying this to Jesus bro?

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
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“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:10

"But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled" 1 Peter 3:14

"Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. " John 15:20

You can try to pretend that God will not allow His children to suffer, but that means you do not know God...and if you do not know who God is, how is it that you can claim to serve Him?
No, you're pretending I meant something I didn't. Do you think I'm somewhere cut-off from the world news? Tell me something,,,do you know the diff between suffering/persecution and God's punishment? The 'they/them' ref to in the Scriptures is not GOD. Idt you know what being a father is, let along our Heavenly Father.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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So how are yus applying this to Jesus bro?

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Who's Yahwey and is there another God beside him?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Again I say yes believers can suffer persecution from the world but not suffering His wrath during the GT. You lost me with your Saint references. Finally, I said this before I think, those who believe they are going through the GT--go ahead and those who think we'll be rescued out of the GT --do so.
The problem is with equating going through the Tribulation with going through God's wrath. Wrath is anger. Do you really get the impression that God is angry with the tribulational saints when reading about them in the book of Revelation? I get the impression that they are commendable before God. They overcome Satan. In the opening of the book in the letters to the churches, overcoming sure looks like a good thing.

The idea of saints not being appointed unto wrath comes from a verse that says ye are not appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So are the saints during the tribulation appointed unto wrath, or are they appointed unto salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ? How can anyone read the book of Revelation and come to the conclusion that the saints during that time are appointed unto wrath instead of receiving salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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The h is a little to the right and just below the y on the keyboard but I'm and old man and my fingers wont mind sometimes.
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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The problem is with equating going through the Tribulation with going through God's wrath. Wrath is anger. Do you really get the impression that God is atribulational saints when reading about them in the book of Revelation? I get the impression that they are commendable before God. They overcome Satan. In the opening of the book in the letters to the churches, overcoming sure looks like a good thing.

The idea of saints not being appointed unto wrath comes from a verse that says ye are not appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So are the saints during the tribulation appointed unto wrath, or are they appointed unto salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ? How can anyone read the book of Revelation and come to the conclusion that the saints during that time are appointed unto wrath instead of receiving salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
Easy peasy. Those are the ones who come to believe in Jesus after the Rapture. They will see the light when loved ones and others vanish. If you want, look up 'who are 'the Saints' during the great tribulation.
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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The h is a little to the right and just below the y on the keyboard but I'm and old man and my fingers wont mind sometimes.
If you don't mind, what do you call old....or should I ask?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Then post tribulation pre wrath?
I believe Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" just before He opens the "First Seal" (Rev5; Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4 [v.3 similar to 2Th2:7b-8a]; etc...)



[so... this is just one small part of why I see our Rapture as "pre-trib" before the START of the 7-yrs that lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth; I also see "wrath" words in Ezek38:18 and ...]
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^ EDIT: ...and v.19 (considering also what Ezek39:7 states, along with what I've already pointed out re: Rom9:26/Hos1:10 re: Israel [vs.Rom9:25/Hos2:23b re: the Gentiles], coupled with other passages regarding Israel, like Daniel 12:1-4,10 (mid-trib to end), etc...


[I see Gen45:1b is a TYPE of that future Ezek39:7 ^, and I see that as occurring fairly early in the trib, just like this with Joseph took place in the 2nd year of his seven-year famine... So, in the "2nd SEAL Wars" as part... ]
 

TabinRivCA

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Oct 23, 2018
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Thanks but my avatar is Harpo Marx...
I didn't recognize him w/o the wig. Gotta love the Marx Bros. I didn't know the Three Stooges were all Jewish or Columbo. Just came to my mind because my bro-in-law is always asking me who is Jewish. Oh and of course Capt Kirk and Spock. Ok, I'll quit on that now.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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I believe Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" just before He opens the "First Seal" (Rev5; Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4 [v.3 similar to 2Th2:7b-8a]; etc...)

[so... this is just one small part of why I see our Rapture as "pre-trib" before the START of the 7-yrs that lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth]

Then when the 5 virgins go to the wedding and say to 5 foolish to buy oil from those who sell, and Babylon who sells the oil (Rev.18:13) is there for them to buy it from,,, was what the 5 wise virgins saying just stuffing yarn in their heads? The 5 wise virgins pointing out that the one who sells the oil is present tense in the world at that time(when they go to the wedding) should show the Harlot is present tense when they go to the wedding.
 

lukeabers

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Dec 6, 2018
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No, you're pretending I meant something I didn't. Do you think I'm somewhere cut-off from the world news? Tell me something,,,do you know the diff between suffering/persecution and God's punishment? The 'they/them' ref to in the Scriptures is not GOD. Idt you know what being a father is, let along our Heavenly Father.
You do realize that God is in control of everything, right? You do realize that God states we will be persecuted for His sake. Do you understand that? Good, then you know that pre-trib is total nonsense and God is not going to let Christians off the hook.

You are on a very thin line with the claims you are making. You should step away from the edge, if you know what is good for you.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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There's a 'TBN Classic' show where Jan & Paul Crouch are hosting a debate on the trib. Hal Lindsey took the pre-trib, Stuart McBirney took mid-trib and Doug Clark was left with the post-trib. Even these three learned guys got into a heated dispute and Hal Lindsey almost lost it. It was quite something After taking part in this thread I think I'm going back to the 80's to relive this program to hear their points. I'm going with just 'Be Ready' everyday! Amen.
I just watched this on youtube as I did not know this took place until you mentioned it. It is in two parts and I have to admit it was really good. I thought each guy stated his position very cogently. Sad to hear of the demise of Dr. Clark later on in his life. :(
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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"Persecutions" and "tribulations" have been taking place toward "the Church which is His body" since its beginning in the first century, even the Thessalonians were ongoingly experiencing it. We should expect that ourselves, at any given season.

Then when the 5 virgins go to the wedding and say to 5 foolish to buy oil from those who sell, and Babylon who sells the oil (Rev.18:13) is there for them to buy it from,,, was what the 5 wise virgins saying just stuffing yarn in their heads? The 5 wise virgins pointing out that the one who sells the oil is present tense in the world at that time(when they go to the wedding) should show the Harlot is present tense when they go to the wedding.
I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at, but I will share my understanding of "the 10 Virgins parable" (briefly, and merely listing my points for now, as I'm pressed for time):

--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (at least, its inauguration), commencing at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (at which point He is "RETURN[-ing]" as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom [WITH (G4862--UNION[-ed] with) His ALREADY-WED "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"--He is not MARRYING the "ten [or even five] virgins [PLURAL]"... this is "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," not the MARRIAGE itself, in Matthew 25:1-13,v.10 esp [Rev19:9 distinguished from Rev19:7])

--"the ten virgins" are in the tribulation period awaiting His Second Coming to the earth (the earthly MK), they are not "the Church which is His body" (already raptured before that time period)

--the "MARRIAGE" itself involves the Bridegroom & Bride/Wife [singular] solely; "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [i.e. earthly MK]" involves "the guests [plural]," "the 10 [or 5] virgins [plural]," and the "servants [plural]" of that future time period (the 144,000 "servants of our God" being some of those, specifically, Rev7:3/1:1); Our Rapture pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods (not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints)

...more at a later time... :)
 

lukeabers

Active member
Dec 6, 2018
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"Persecutions" and "tribulations" have been taking place toward "the Church which is His body" since its beginning in the first century, even the Thessalonians were ongoingly experiencing it. We should expect that ourselves, at any given season.



I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at, but I will share my understanding of "the 10 Virgins parable" (briefly, and merely listing my points for now, as I'm pressed for time):

--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (at least, its inauguration), commencing at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (at which point He is "RETURN[-ing]" as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom [WITH (G4862--UNION[-ed] with) His ALREADY-WED "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"--He is not MARRYING the "ten [or even five] virgins [PLURAL]"... this is "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," not the MARRIAGE itself, in Matthew 25:1-13,v.10 esp [Rev19:9 distinguished from Rev19:7])

--"the ten virgins" are in the tribulation period awaiting His Second Coming to the earth (the earthly MK), they are not "the Church which is His body" (already raptured before that time period)

--the "MARRIAGE" itself involves the Bridegroom & Bride/Wife [singular] solely; "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [i.e. earthly MK]" involves "the guests [plural]," "the 10 [or 5] virgins [plural]," and the "servants [plural]" of that future time period (the 144,000 "servants of our God" being some of those, specifically, Rev7:3/1:1); Our Rapture pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods (not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints)

...more at a later time... :)
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:1-2

Pretrib teaching is false and therefore satanic. The tribulation began some time in the middle of the 20th century, the Beginning of Sorrows spoken about by Christ in Matthew 24 began with 'earthquakes in diverse places'. The Church is asleep and infected with poisonous teachings...meanwhile Christians are being slaughtered en masse throughout the world while the West continues to claim that no harm will come to the Christians...