The Rapture
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(NIV) But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
(ESV) But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
(NKJV) But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
(NRSV) But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died.
(ASV) But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep.
(YLT) And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
(AMP) But the fact is that Christ (the Messiah) has been raised from the dead, and He became the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.
(ESV) But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
(NKJV) But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
(NRSV) But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died.
(ASV) But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep.
(YLT) And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead the first-fruits of those sleeping he became,
(AMP) But the fact is that Christ (the Messiah) has been raised from the dead, and He became the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.
The temple of Ez 40-48 is not a prophesy of a future temple to be built. It was a vision of a temple that the people could of had after Babylon captivity if they would become shamed of their iniquities (i.e. repent). The key portion is here:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple and its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, its entire design and all its ordinances, all its forms and all its laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them.
Since the people did not repent, they did not get this beautiful grand temple. Instead they got the much smaller temple. Therefore we have no future passage of a third temple and no passage of re instituting animal sacrifices.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple and its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, its entire design and all its ordinances, all its forms and all its laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them.
Since the people did not repent, they did not get this beautiful grand temple. Instead they got the much smaller temple. Therefore we have no future passage of a third temple and no passage of re instituting animal sacrifices.
Okay, so all those who died before Christ who heard His voice were resurrected with Him then there will be no more resurrected until the very end of earth??? So, what about the wicked? Did any of them get resurrected with Christ are do all need to wait until the very end and final judgment?
Also, what then happens to the believe who died after Christ until now? I assume you think their spirit and soul go to heaven but their body remains in the ground.
Also, what then happens to the believe who died after Christ until now? I assume you think their spirit and soul go to heaven but their body remains in the ground.
I am in the process of reading from these three very early Christians. They are the earliest Christians I could find after the apostles. So far I don't see any mention of a future great tribulation or a rapture.
Clement, the Bishop of Rome (100 A.D.), wrote a letter to the church of Corinth, which was preserved and can be seen today.
Ignatius, the Bishop of Antioch (67-110 A.D.), was the pupil and friend of the Apostle John.
Polycarp, the Bishop of Smyrna (69-156 A.D.), like Ignatius, was the pupil and friend of the Apostle John.
Polycarp says the below:
I exhort you all, therefore, to yield obedience to the word of righteousness, and to exercise all patience, such as you have seen [set] before your eyes, not only in the case of the blessed Ignatius, and Zosimus, and Rufus, but also in others among yourselves, and in Paul himself, and the rest of the apostles. [This do] in the assurance that all these have not run Philippians 2:16; Galatians 2:2 in vain, but in faith and righteousness, and that they are [now] in their due place in the presence of the Lord, with whom also they suffered. For they loved not this present world, but Him who died for us, and for our sakes was raised again by God from the dead.
Polycarp seems to indicate that Paul and the other apostles were now with Christ by the time he wrote this. He is quoting Phil 2:16: "holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." This would seem to indicate that the day of Christ happened meaning Paul would have been resurrected. Polycarp was brutally martyred at 86 years old for refusing to acknowledge that the Roman Emperor was God and to make a small offering to him.
In reading Ignatius, he talks extensively about his future death which he knew by divine providence that he would be killed in Rome by wild beasts in the Colosseum. He in no way expects a "rapture" to spare him this horrible death. He did in fact die this way. He does discuss there being a resurrection but doesn't say when he expects it, just that he expects to be with God immediately. He states:
May nothing seen or unseen begrudge me making my way to Jesus Christ. Come fire, cross, battling with wild beasts, wrenching of bones, mangling of limbs, crushing of my whole body, cruel tortures of the devil — only let me get to Jesus Christ!
In his letter to the Romans, he also says this:
Grant me no more than to be a sacrifice for God while there is an altar at hand. Then you can form yourselves into a choir and sing praises to the Father in Jesus Christ that God gave the bishop of Syria the privilege of reaching the sun’s setting when he summoned him from its rising. It is a grand thing for my life to set on the world, and for me to be on my way to God, so that I may rise in his presence.
Again, nothing concrete as to timing of the resurrection but absolutely no mention of a return of Christ or a rapture, snatching up. Both speak only of a resurrection and judgment to come so far and I'm about half way done reading.
Clement, the Bishop of Rome (100 A.D.), wrote a letter to the church of Corinth, which was preserved and can be seen today.
Ignatius, the Bishop of Antioch (67-110 A.D.), was the pupil and friend of the Apostle John.
Polycarp, the Bishop of Smyrna (69-156 A.D.), like Ignatius, was the pupil and friend of the Apostle John.
Polycarp says the below:
I exhort you all, therefore, to yield obedience to the word of righteousness, and to exercise all patience, such as you have seen [set] before your eyes, not only in the case of the blessed Ignatius, and Zosimus, and Rufus, but also in others among yourselves, and in Paul himself, and the rest of the apostles. [This do] in the assurance that all these have not run Philippians 2:16; Galatians 2:2 in vain, but in faith and righteousness, and that they are [now] in their due place in the presence of the Lord, with whom also they suffered. For they loved not this present world, but Him who died for us, and for our sakes was raised again by God from the dead.
Polycarp seems to indicate that Paul and the other apostles were now with Christ by the time he wrote this. He is quoting Phil 2:16: "holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." This would seem to indicate that the day of Christ happened meaning Paul would have been resurrected. Polycarp was brutally martyred at 86 years old for refusing to acknowledge that the Roman Emperor was God and to make a small offering to him.
In reading Ignatius, he talks extensively about his future death which he knew by divine providence that he would be killed in Rome by wild beasts in the Colosseum. He in no way expects a "rapture" to spare him this horrible death. He did in fact die this way. He does discuss there being a resurrection but doesn't say when he expects it, just that he expects to be with God immediately. He states:
May nothing seen or unseen begrudge me making my way to Jesus Christ. Come fire, cross, battling with wild beasts, wrenching of bones, mangling of limbs, crushing of my whole body, cruel tortures of the devil — only let me get to Jesus Christ!
In his letter to the Romans, he also says this:
Grant me no more than to be a sacrifice for God while there is an altar at hand. Then you can form yourselves into a choir and sing praises to the Father in Jesus Christ that God gave the bishop of Syria the privilege of reaching the sun’s setting when he summoned him from its rising. It is a grand thing for my life to set on the world, and for me to be on my way to God, so that I may rise in his presence.
Again, nothing concrete as to timing of the resurrection but absolutely no mention of a return of Christ or a rapture, snatching up. Both speak only of a resurrection and judgment to come so far and I'm about half way done reading.
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Daniel 12:1-2 KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
At the time of Jacob's trouble Daniel 12:1-2 happened. MOST of them, with the exception of Enoch and Elijah as far as I can tell, were raised. The saints to everlasting life but the wicked to everlasting contempt.
The foreshadow of that event was Joseph in prison (hell). The butler and the baker are the righteous and the wicked.
Don't forget, we KNOW that Jesus is coming back with TEN THOUSANDS of his saints... that's how we KNOW that he left with TEN THOUSANDS of his saints. Not to mention the fact that TEN in the bible represents old testament... the law - TEN commandments.
2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
We are confident, I say , and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
To be absent from the body is to be present to the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:42 KJV
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Our current bodies, sown in corruption will be RAISED in incorruption when Jesus returns.
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
At the time of Jacob's trouble Daniel 12:1-2 happened. MOST of them, with the exception of Enoch and Elijah as far as I can tell, were raised. The saints to everlasting life but the wicked to everlasting contempt.
The foreshadow of that event was Joseph in prison (hell). The butler and the baker are the righteous and the wicked.
Don't forget, we KNOW that Jesus is coming back with TEN THOUSANDS of his saints... that's how we KNOW that he left with TEN THOUSANDS of his saints. Not to mention the fact that TEN in the bible represents old testament... the law - TEN commandments.
2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
We are confident, I say , and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
To be absent from the body is to be present to the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:42 KJV
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
Our current bodies, sown in corruption will be RAISED in incorruption when Jesus returns.
Why? If you've been to any church you know this is taught by everyone from catholics to protestants, the passage is Revelation 20 where the resurrection occurs and it has not happened yet since we are still here.
A straightforward passage of this would be Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
The body is in the grave until the resurrection. Soul is in heaven.
At the resurrection the soul and glorified body are connected.
A straightforward passage of this would be Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."
The body is in the grave until the resurrection. Soul is in heaven.
At the resurrection the soul and glorified body are connected.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I think this is confirmation that the old testament saints were raised. We that are a live and remain WILL NOT prevent those who have died before us. Yes this is talking about the dead in Christ now BUT it's also talking about the old testament saints.
The reapers only go into the field when it's TIME. The firstfruits of the resurrection was when Christ resurrected, the NEXT harvest wont be UNTIL the full harvest is ready at the second coming.
The old testament (law) age ended and Christ gathered his fruit. When the Gentile age is over, he will gather that fruit both dead and alive..... funny that earthly firstfruits are small in comparison to the full harvest... Just like a FEW were saved in old testament times but MANY will be saved in the new testament times.
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I think this is confirmation that the old testament saints were raised. We that are a live and remain WILL NOT prevent those who have died before us. Yes this is talking about the dead in Christ now BUT it's also talking about the old testament saints.
The reapers only go into the field when it's TIME. The firstfruits of the resurrection was when Christ resurrected, the NEXT harvest wont be UNTIL the full harvest is ready at the second coming.
The old testament (law) age ended and Christ gathered his fruit. When the Gentile age is over, he will gather that fruit both dead and alive..... funny that earthly firstfruits are small in comparison to the full harvest... Just like a FEW were saved in old testament times but MANY will be saved in the new testament times.
This all appears to make sense, except that according to my Jewish best man (and many other sources) the Jews are ready and chomping at the bit to build a new temple and resume animal sacrifices. He even hints that when they do he will return to Israel. So while you may make a case against the building of a new temple, how do you account for the millions of Jews and Israelis who are prepared and chomping at the bit to do just that?
Ezekiel 40 2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
Hebrews 9 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Is Ezekiel 40 the heavenly temple?
Hebrews 9 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Is Ezekiel 40 the heavenly temple?
The Temple for the 70th Week of Daniel, will be defiled with abominations and therefore it is NOT the Millennial Temple. Why do you have a problem with the size of the Millennial Temple? It Says the whole world will be expected to come to Jerusalem for the Festival of Booths every year, and there will be PLENTY OF ROOM FOR THE EXPANSION OF JERUSALEM.
Zechariah 14:9-10 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft on its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
Geba is northeast of Jerusalem a few miles, but Rimmon is not included in this map, but from other maps it was between Nebo and Mareshah west of the narrow point in the Dead Sea.
