The Return of Jews to Israel

[livingepistle]

JESUS OF NAZARETH:

John 16:33
I have overcome the world






It was the Talmud who gave authority to destroy the child in the womb of the mother:

“The chief Talmudic source on abortion is the Mishna, a collection of early religious-legal decisions, in which it is stated:

‘A woman that is having difficulty in giving birth is permitted to cut up the child inside her womb and take it out limb by limb because her life takes precedence.”[vi]

The Jewish Roots, and the Catholic Failure, on Abortion < click



It was the [Jewish Babylonian] Talmud

who gave authority

to destroy the child

in the womb

of the mother

55,772,015 Abortions in America

cut up the child

inside her womb

and take it out

limb by limb



we're not allowed to talk about Jewish Crimes are we Pete.
crimes against Christians....and how The Bible said they please not God and are contrary to ALL MEN.

because the Jews were persecuted and six million were killed, gassed to death in the Holocaust, right?

so shut up and talk about Islam...right?



WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT OTHER BIG LIE TOO.

Excellent points to address Zone; this opened my understanding in an area of scripture that I always pondered; "abortion". Thank you for sharing this knowledge. I performed a simple search on Judaism and abortion and found the following of interest:

Abortion in Jewish Thought

"The Jewish position on abortion occupies a middle ground, neither condoning it nor categorically prohibiting it.
Indeed, while Judaism disapproves of abortion on demand, in certain cases it not only permits, but requires it.
The Jewish discussion about abortion begins with a biblical text.Exodus 21:22-23 discusses a situation in which two men are fighting. During the fight, one of the men accidentally hits a pregnant woman. The Torah says that if the woman is killed then, “a nefesh shall be given for a nefesh (a life shall be given for a life).” The man who struck her is considered a murderer and is punished accordingly. If, however, the woman miscarries but does not die, the man must pay monetary damages.

He is not liable for murder because the fetus is not considered a nefesh, a human being.
While establishing the status of a fetus, this text tells us nothing about the permissibility of abortion. It is another source—the Mishnah (redacted c. 200 CE), in Tractate Ohalot—that provides us with the underlying principle: “If a woman is undergoing a perilous pregnancy, the fetus may be destroyed since her life takes precedence over its life.” When a woman’s life is in danger, abortion is permitted. However, the range of this permissibility is subject to debate and hinges on a single question: Why does the woman’s life take precedence over the fetus?"

Others may want to read the entire article that is located on the Internet at this site:

Abortion in Jewish Thought - My Jewish Learning

Respectfully submitted
Living Epistle

 

[zone]

Yes, sorry and I couldn't agree more that this is not a simple and straightforward question, but I suspected we could begin on that note of agreement. Here is in part why believe God doesn't punish the ignorant:

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Now what about a Jew that lived in northern Europe in the 2nd century, that never heard the Gospel? Do you believe he might have been saved because of his faith, as well as his ignorance, too?

what about a Muslim that lives in a far away African land and has never heard the Gospel?
do you believe he might have been saved because of his faith in a Creator?
only ignorance kept him from professing Jesus Christ.

which is Pete?

John 5:46
If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

 

[coconut]

Let's put 'SINNER' in place of 'MUSLIM' and see how it reads,

'what about a SINNER that lives in a far away African land and has never heard the Gospel?
do you believe he might have been saved because of his faith in a Creator?
only ignorance kept him from professing Jesus Christ'.

If a sinner that has never heard the name of Jesus Christ but only the name of other gods, yet the Creator has spoken to his heart and this sinner believes the Creator and that he created all things and in his heart worships the Creator who is greater than himself without knowing his name, do you think the Creator, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, is going to forsake him and not impart his life to that sinner? He did not reject Christ, he just did not know his name nor had he been told about the cross. If you don't believe in that kind of justice from God based upon the vicarious atonement of the blood of Christ then what justice do you believe in. Yes, let us pray to the Lord of the harvest to send laborers into the field but if a sinner dies without having heard the gospel yet believes the Creator, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, and what was spoken to his heart, that man is covered by the blood of Christ just as much as you or I. If you don't believe that then you are the one with the problem. Don't twist my words and say something I did not say or mean and don't bring Billy Graham into it, just leave that servant alone because he is God's servant.

 

[zone]

Let's put 'SINNER' in place of 'MUSLIM' and see how it reads,

'what about a SINNER that lives in a far away African land and has never heard the Gospel?
do you believe he might have been saved because of his faith in a Creator?
only ignorance kept him from professing Jesus Christ'.

If a sinner that has never heard the name of Jesus Christ but only the name of other gods, yet the Creator has spoken to his heart and this sinner believes the Creator and that he created all things and in his heart worships the Creator who is greater than himself without knowing his name, do you think the Creator, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, is going to forsake him and not impart his life to that sinner? He did not reject Christ, he just did not know his name nor had he been told about the cross. If you don't believe in that kind of justice from God based upon the vicarious atonement of the blood of Christ then what justice do you believe in. Yes, let us pray to the Lord of the harvest to send laborers into the field but if a sinner dies without having heard the gospel yet believes the Creator, who is the Lord Jesus Christ, and what was spoken to his heart, that man is covered by the blood of Christ just as much as you or I. If you don't believe that then you are the one with the problem. Don't twist my words and say something I did not say or mean and don't bring Billy Graham into it, just leave that servant alone because he is God's servant.

ha? Billy Graham?

no clue what you're on about Red33.
.......

so for you, justice is anyone who believes in a creator god is saved.
because the creator they believe in has spoken to their heart?

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

Acts 4
5On the next day their rulers and elders and scribes gathered together in Jerusalem, 6with Annas the high priest and Caiaphas and John and Alexander, and all who were of the high-priestly family. 7And when they had set them in the midst, they inquired, “By what power or by what name did you do this?” 8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11This Jesusa is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.b 12And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”


ANANASI (Various tribes) The spider. A trickster. A creator god. Something of a scoundrel, but quite well liked. Many amusing and fanciful stories are told of him.

BUKU (Various West African peoples) A sky god sometimes worshipped as a goddess. Buku created everything, even the other gods.

DXUI (Bushman; to the Hottentots, TSUI; to the Xhosa and Ponda, THIXO) A creator god. In the beginning, Dxui took the form of a different flower or plant every day, becoming himself at night, until he had created all the plants and flowers that exist.

'NGAI (Masai) Creator god. At birth, 'Ngai gives each man a guardian spirit to ward off danger and carry him away at the moment of death. The evil are carried off to a desert, while the good go to a land of rich pastures and many cattle.

UNKULUNKULU (Zulu) "Old, Old One." Unkulunkulu was both the first man and the creator, a god of the earth who had no traffic with the heavens. Unkulunkulu showed men how to live together and gave them knowledge of the world in which they lived.

Mbombo of Bakuba mythology, who vomited out the world upon feeling a stomach ache

Vishnu creator

Krishna - Hindu Supreme God, essence of all creation

Ptah Creator-god

Sobek Creator-god

monad - demiurge

Anu - Babylonian creator God

Pangu creator deity

Waheguru The Creator

G.A.O.T.U.

etc.
etc.

If you don't believe that then you are the one with the problem. Don't twist my words and say something I did not say or mean

i don't know what you mean if it isn't what you clearly said.
if it's clearly what you said i guess i am the one with the problem.

Acts 4
11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

seems clear to me.
but maybe that's just cold dead orthodoxy.

 

[coconut]

ANANASI (Various tribes) The spider. A trickster. A creator god. Something of a scoundrel, but quite well liked. Many amusing and fanciful stories are told of him.

BUKU (Various West African peoples) A sky god sometimes worshipped as a goddess. Buku created everything, even the other gods.

DXUI (Bushman; to the Hottentots, TSUI; to the Xhosa and Ponda, THIXO) A creator god. In the beginning, Dxui took the form of a different flower or plant every day, becoming himself at night, until he had created all the plants and flowers that exist.

'NGAI (Masai) Creator god. At birth, 'Ngai gives each man a guardian spirit to ward off danger and carry him away at the moment of death. The evil are carried off to a desert, while the good go to a land of rich pastures and many cattle.

UNKULUNKULU (Zulu) "Old, Old One." Unkulunkulu was both the first man and the creator, a god of the earth who had no traffic with the heavens. Unkulunkulu showed men how to live together and gave them knowledge of the world in which they lived.

Mbombo of Bakuba mythology, who vomited out the world upon feeling a stomach ache

Vishnu creator

Krishna - Hindu Supreme God, essence of all creation

Ptah Creator-god

Sobek Creator-god

monad - demiurge

Anu - Babylonian creator God

Pangu creator deity

Waheguru The Creator

G.A.O.T.U.

There are many false gods that man has given many attributes unto, but there is only one Creator that is the judge of the whole earth, who possesses uncreated life and can speak to the heart of man and draw him to himself.

Psalm 19:1-5 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

Psalm 50:1-6 The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

Psalm 97:1-9 The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Is 40:25,26 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

Col 1:16,17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The same one that created the sun the moon and the stars of heaven is the same one who came from heaven to earth as a man to declare the Father and shed his blood for all sinful man. To deny the power and ability of the Creator is to deny Christ and all that the heavens have declared and the speech they have uttered from the beginning. The heavens declare his righteousness and show forth his knowledge day and night. There is no speech or language, where their voice is not heard. It is quite a wonderous thing that God has done through his throne of heaven to make all men aware of his righteousness and to see the throne of his glory.

 

[coconut]

There are many false gods that man has given many attributes unto, but there is only one Creator that is the judge of the whole earth, who possesses uncreated life and can speak to the heart of man and draw him to himself.

Psalm 19:1-5 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.[SUP]2 [/SUP]Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

Psalm 50:1-6 The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

Psalm 97:1-9 The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Is 40:25,26 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

Col 1:16,17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The same one that created the sun the moon and the stars of heaven is the same one who came from heaven to earth as a man to declare the Father and shed his blood for all sinful man. To deny the power and ability of the Creator is to deny Christ and all that the heavens have declared and the speech they have uttered from the beginning. The heavens declare his righteousness and show forth his knowledge day and night. There is no speech or language, where their voice is not heard. It is quite a wonderous thing that God has done through his throne of heaven to make all men aware of his righteousness and to see the throne of his glory.

What inspiration and truth do these verses speak to concerning man. If one from Israel believed the words of the Creator and rejected Christ as Messiah, then they are in unbelief. If one from Israel accepted Christ as Messiah than they would know he is the Creator and their Messiah who had come. God will have mercy on Israel for they shall see him as he is when he comes a second time and shall be delivered because they will believe and many will mourn over the one who they had pierced (Rev 1:7, Zech 12). He will be the hope of Israel once again because he promised to never forsake them and that he would keep his promise to them. For those who believe that Israel has been forsaken, the promise was not made void through their unbelief. They will be made heirs, not by the law, but by faith in the promise of his coming and they will see his pierced side and the nail scars in his hands and feet and will realize that he had come for them the first time but they had rejected him according to the law in unbelief. This will be the basis of their great mourning as one who mourneth for his only son in Zechariah 12:10-14.

 

[zone]

What inspiration and truth do these verses speak to concerning man. If one from Israel believed the words of the Creator and rejected Christ as Messiah, then they are in unbelief. If one from Israel accepted Christ as Messiah than they would know he is the Creator and their Messiah who had come. God will have mercy on Israel for they shall see him as he is when he comes a second time and shall be delivered because they will believe and many will mourn over the one who they had pierced (Rev 1:7, Zech 12). He will be the hope of Israel once again because he promised to never forsake them and that he would keep his promise to them. For those who believe that Israel has been forsaken, the promise was not made void through their unbelief. They will be made heirs, not by the law, but by faith in the promise of his coming and they will see his pierced side and the nail scars in his hands and feet and will realize that he had come for them the first time but they had rejected him according to the law in unbelief. This will be the basis of their great mourning as one who mourneth for his only son in Zechariah 12:10-14.

Dispensational fantasy.
they get saved one-by-one...if they forsake their idolatry and unbelief...they`re gentiles anyway so ought to be grateful for that.

all that stuff you posted was fulfilled already.

course you believe the church will be gone in the sky somewhere when God turns back to Plan A national Israel.

 

[PeteWaldo]

What inspiration and truth do these verses speak to concerning man. If one from Israel believed the words of the Creator and rejected Christ as Messiah, then they are in unbelief. If one from Israel accepted Christ as Messiah than they would know he is the Creator and their Messiah who had come. God will have mercy on Israel for they shall see him as he is when he comes a second time and shall be delivered because they will believe and many will mourn over the one who they had pierced (Rev 1:7, Zech 12). He will be the hope of Israel once again because he promised to never forsake them and that he would keep his promise to them. For those who believe that Israel has been forsaken, the promise was not made void through their unbelief. They will be made heirs, not by the law, but by faith in the promise of his coming and they will see his pierced side and the nail scars in his hands and feet and will realize that he had come for them the first time but they had rejected him according to the law in unbelief. This will be the basis of their great mourning as one who mourneth for his only son in Zechariah 12:10-14.

Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."

Isaac Newton: “…the final return of the Jews captivity and their conquering the nations of the four Monarchies and setting up a (peaceable) righteous and flourishing kingdom at the day of judgment is this mystery.”

“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”

Thomas Brightman (1562-1607): "The restoring of the Jewes and their callinge to the faith of Christ after the utter overthrow of their three enemies is set forth in livelie colours." "Shall they return to Jerusalem again?" "There is nothing more certain: the prophets do everywhere confirm it and beat upon it."

John Owen 1616-1683: "The Jews shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered, and brought home into their homeland."

In 1641 Oliver Cromwell stated, "And it may be, as some think, God will bring the Jews home to their station, 'from all the isles of the sea,' and answer their expectations 'as from the depths of the sea.'

 

[coconut]

Dispensational fantasy.
they get saved one-by-one...if they forsake their idolatry and unbelief...they`re gentiles anyway so ought to be grateful for that.

all that stuff you posted was fulfilled already.

course you believe the church will be gone in the sky somewhere when God turns back to Plan A national Israel.

What happened at Pentecost in Acts 2 and later in Acts 3 & 4 with thousands of Jews believing and being saved at one time should have spoken to you that God's great salvation is for the masses of Jews and Gentiles as well as for those who would come to him one by one. Yes, the church and body of Christ will be taken up to meet the Lord in the air and then God will deal with his elect people Israel during the time of the tribulation and then he will come back a second time and they shall see and look upon the one they have pierced. Masses of Jews who see him shall believe at that very moment when they lay their eyes upon him. No this has not been fulfilled but it will come to past and when it does many shall believe because they shall see him as he is. That is God being faithful to his promise despite those who live in disbelief or contrary to the scriptures through unbelief in their own heart. God will restore the people of Israel and you and I, who are part of the church and body of Christ, will not be a part of that. That should be understandable and those who have the Spirit should witness within the truth of it. So be it.

 

[SarahM777]

LOLOLOLOL

you mean i get to take over the WORLD?

wow.

DRETT! this is our chance!

i'll make you Prime Minister or summink

Pete, i'd feel safer smack dab in middle of 500 muslims than 50 xtian zionists.
you don't teach anything remotely resembling christianity.

Why would you want the headaches of trying to run the world?

 

[SarahM777]

Sis are you picking on the zionist lovers again? Dont you know those zionists are barely making it you know they only own Fed
Hollywood, Media, Puppet Governments including the US I mean come on Zone there barely making it. Dont worry about the millions they are starving in east Africa and out and out stealing everything they can. They have got to make a living to.
Those bail outs they promised they would never do that again and they said we will pay it back. All I can say is I believe them how about you.

Do you buy used bridges too? (I have some you know) jk

 

[coconut]

“It is possible to know all about doctrine and yet not know Jesus. The soul is in danger when knowledge of doctrine out steps intimate touch with Jesus. ....Have I a personal history with Jesus Christ? The one sign of discipleship is intimate connection with Him, a knowledge of Jesus Christ nothing can shake.”

Oswald Chambers

Intimacy with Jesus is receiving from him an abundance of grace and knowing how he thinks through an abundance of truth that comes from the Spirit through the word and doctrine that we are taught. Our personal history with Christ comes from knowing him in the details of life and having his word and doctrine revealed to us to quicken us with his life through the Spirit. The kingdom of God for the believer is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit within that makes his word and promises come alive that we have hid in our heart which will never pass away.