The role of experience

RickyZ · Jan 28, 2013

A plane flies over a jungle, and out of an open door the manual falls. The natives, who have never seen a plane before, scoop up the manual and mine it for all it's worth. Thru the written words of the manual they come to an "understanding" of what the plane is and how it works.

One day an aircraft mechanic/pilot comes into the jungle and meets these natives. After hearing all their understandings about aircraft, he finds that thru lack of actual experience with the real thing they have formed some misconceptions and errors. He tries to correct them based upon his experience with actual aircraft. Some welcome the new ideas while others stick doggedly to their views.

The tie-in: How much should/does experiencial learning weigh in on Bible interpretation?

kenisyes · Jan 28, 2013

You hit on something. We learn to write after we learn to speak. We learn the words for foods after we taste them, and for everything in our environment after we try it. I think I was 30 before I realized calliope was the musical instrument; at age 8, I saw the word in a comic book, and pronounced it Cally-yope. I'm still not sure I understand a few common words about emotions the same way other people do, because I was kept indoors as a child. Yet we try to use Scripture the opposite way, trying to understand the written text first.

A more theological answer: Reality and Scripture prove each other, because one God made both.

mark54 · Jan 28, 2013

Experiance can often show us if our understanding of scripture was correct on issues(or the understanding taught us by a particular church)

Malcyboy · Jan 28, 2013

its a really interesting concept, which looks at the practicality of study, faith and works.... We study the word, we have the faith to implent the word, the resulting produce is our works, now this is similar to the secular theory David Kolb presents, in which, we have an experience, we reflect on the experience, we then come up with improvements and then re-experience...

this CAN be a similar case in the word... we have a challenge, we compare the word to our challenge, the word suggests how to correctly respond to the challenge, and then we re-experience the challenge through our adapted response via the word...

So as you said, living out the word is a very vital part of our walk with Christ...A soldier may be trained at using a sword in combat, and may be an expert in his knowledge, but if he never goes out to battle his knowledge is wasted....which is same with us... we may know our sword (word of God) to a master level, however what use is that if we do not go conquer our enemies? and when we act upon the word, we are gaining a visual, testimonial example of the word in action.. i hope this answers your question

Tommy4Christ · Jan 28, 2013

You obey the word from a heart made pure through repentance and a working faith in love, the word of God is alive and power over sin, temptation and the devil, and to experience its power comes with a high price, few are willing to pay!

Does God do it all?

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also thatye receive not the grace of God in vain.
The majority of pastors today are telling the gullible masses,that there is no preparation on our part to receive Jesus, and get saved, theyteach Jesus did it all, ANY works done prior to conversion is taboo, andunmerited, because if we even try to do anything on our part, we are trying toearn our salvation which makes us into self-righteous hypocrites!
They proclaim we were born poor helpless sinners, totallydepraved, with absolutely no ability to do the first works of repentance andfaith. Any works is out of the question, as God is in control, we are helplessunable to contribute.
But the gospel according to godliness tells us a different story,where we are coworkers with God, in a synergistic way, contributing to oursalvation, though an obedient faith motivated by love and obedience.
1Co 3:9 For we are laborers together with God: ye are God'shusbandry, ye are God's building.
God does require something from us, it isn't a done deal, when youbow your head, say a little prayer, then presto you are in the kingdom. God isasking us to first repent, 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slackconcerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering tous-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come torepentance.
How do we become coworkers with God? First we repent, forsakingour vile sins, through a season of Godly sorrow first, then we return to theLord, cleansed and purged of our sins against Him, 2 Corinthians 7-10-11, andprove that this repentance is from the heart, and complete, with no regrets,and no retuning to your vomit! Pro 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit,so a fool returns to his folly!
So working together with God totally eliminates we have nothing todo in our preparation and obedient walk with God, We go through repentance andfaith proven by deeds first, then join God as a fellow worker in righteousness,purity, obedience, and walking in newness of life, as a new creation, zealousfor good works. Walking in His strength and power, to remain pure and undefiledfrom the corrupting influence of sin and worldliness! Eph 6:10 Finally, mybrothers, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God so that you may be able to stand againstthe wiles of the devil.
Yes God is all sovereign , God is in control, God knows the past,present and future, but has also given us a free will choice and ability to work together with Him in ourredemption and sanctification, by crucifying our flesh with His son JesusChrist, Galations 2:20, who came as a spotless sin offering for sin, Heb 9:14 how much moreshall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himselfwithout spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the livingGod? Thus setting us free from the power ofsatan to the power of God, by destroying the works of the devil in our life. Act 26:18 in order toopen their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from thepower of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission(forgiveness) of sinsand an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith(obedience) in Me.
Working with God in our redemption and relationship is then a joyand pleasure, because of what He has granted us through repentance and faith,producing good fruit, and enjoying our freedom to walk in obedience and love,which is a works of love, fear, and devotion.
Working together with God is then a privilege, not to be taken forgranted, or to be used as
an excuse to brag about what we have done or earn anything fromGod, no it's a requirement and honor which comes from the truly convertedheart, made pure by repentance and faith, proven by deeds!
Tommy

mark54 · Jan 28, 2013

Tommy4Christ said:

You obey the word from a heart made pure through repentance and a working faith in love, the word of God is alive and power over sin, temptation and the devil, and to experience its power comes with a high price, few are willing to pay!

Does God do it all?

2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also thatye receive not the grace of God in vain.
The majority of pastors today are telling the gullible masses,that there is no preparation on our part to receive Jesus, and get saved, theyteach Jesus did it all, ANY works done prior to conversion is taboo, andunmerited, because if we even try to do anything on our part, we are trying toearn our salvation which makes us into self-righteous hypocrites!
They proclaim we were born poor helpless sinners, totallydepraved, with absolutely no ability to do the first works of repentance andfaith. Any works is out of the question, as God is in control, we are helplessunable to contribute.
But the gospel according to godliness tells us a different story,where we are coworkers with God, in a synergistic way, contributing to oursalvation, though an obedient faith motivated by love and obedience.
1Co 3:9 For we are laborers together with God: ye are God'shusbandry, ye are God's building.
God does require something from us, it isn't a done deal, when youbow your head, say a little prayer, then presto you are in the kingdom. God isasking us to first repent, 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slackconcerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering tous-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come torepentance.
How do we become coworkers with God? First we repent, forsakingour vile sins, through a season of Godly sorrow first, then we return to theLord, cleansed and purged of our sins against Him, 2 Corinthians 7-10-11, andprove that this repentance is from the heart, and complete, with no regrets,and no retuning to your vomit! Pro 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit,so a fool returns to his folly!
So working together with God totally eliminates we have nothing todo in our preparation and obedient walk with God, We go through repentance andfaith proven by deeds first, then join God as a fellow worker in righteousness,purity, obedience, and walking in newness of life, as a new creation, zealousfor good works. Walking in His strength and power, to remain pure and undefiledfrom the corrupting influence of sin and worldliness! Eph 6:10 Finally, mybrothers, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God so that you may be able to stand againstthe wiles of the devil.
Yes God is all sovereign , God is in control, God knows the past,present and future, but has also given us a free will choice and ability to work together with Him in ourredemption and sanctification, by crucifying our flesh with His son JesusChrist, Galations 2:20, who came as a spotless sin offering for sin, Heb 9:14 how much moreshall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himselfwithout spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the livingGod? Thus setting us free from the power ofsatan to the power of God, by destroying the works of the devil in our life. Act 26:18 in order toopen their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from thepower of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission(forgiveness) of sinsand an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith(obedience) in Me.
Working with God in our redemption and relationship is then a joyand pleasure, because of what He has granted us through repentance and faith,producing good fruit, and enjoying our freedom to walk in obedience and love,which is a works of love, fear, and devotion.
Working together with God is then a privilege, not to be taken forgranted, or to be used as
an excuse to brag about what we have done or earn anything fromGod, no it's a requirement and honor which comes from the truly convertedheart, made pure by repentance and faith, proven by deeds!
Tommy

Working together with God?
Sounds like its all what WE do.
But being umble, we wouldn't want to take any of the credit for what WE did would we?

Trax · Jan 28, 2013

RickyZ said:

It depends on if the person is saved. I'm seeing well known "TV Christians" (I use that word lightly here)
drift into the apostasy. Experienced - Yes, Christian - dunno now. God gave the KJV to the English
speaking people. The further one removes himself from it, the greater the chance to get interpretation
wrong. Those "TV Christians" I mentioned, quote from The Message. (WOW!) This is being very
far removed. The problem today, with the "falling away" going on, is knowing who to trust. There have been
so much nonsense written, over the past 200 years, one needs to lay hold to something before that time.
This is where the KJV Bible comes in. In that 200 years, RC has gone further into paganism, Mormonism
and JW sprang up. All three claim to hold the patent on truth. To the individual, that is just playing religion,
there is the casual regard to chosing a doctrine (sounds good, feels good, that's for me), but a high degree
placed on being "RIGHT" with the doctrine chosen. To the individual who is truly following the Lord Jesus,
there "should" be a high degree placed on being faithful to what is written. If that person isn't faithful to the written
word, then he/she isn't going to be faithful to the Living Word.

zone · Jan 28, 2013

Originally Posted by Tommy4Christ
You obey the word from a heart made pure through repentance and a working faith in love, the word of God is alive and power over sin, temptation and the devil, and to experience its power comes with a high price, few are willing to pay!

Does God do it all?

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Re: The role of experience

John 17:17
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth

SarahM777 · Jan 28, 2013

zone said:

Just a couple of additions

1 Thessalonians 5

[SUP]23 [/SUP]May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]24 [/SUP]The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

2 Thessalonians 2

[SUP]3 [/SUP]But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits[SUP][b][/SUP] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. [SUP]14 [/SUP]He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God

SarahM777 · Jan 28, 2013

Let's try this again

1 Peter 1

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus,Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, [SUP]2 [/SUP]who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

1Corinthians 1

[SUP]26 [/SUP]Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.[SUP]27 [/SUP]But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.[SUP]28 [/SUP]God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, [SUP]29 [/SUP]so that no one may boast before him. [SUP]30 [/SUP]It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus,who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[SUP][d][/SUP]

tribesman · Jan 28, 2013

We need only one experience: that we are indeed great sinners worthy of God's indignation, wrath and condemnation. Utterly helpless and powerless to save ourselves or to contribute to same in any way, shape or form, however so microscopically tiny. But that God indeed has mercy on such wrecked souls.

Abiding · Jan 28, 2013

Trax said:

you reminded me of this:

John 7:14-19

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now about the middle of the feast Jesus went up into the temple and taught. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Jesus[SUP][a][/SUP] answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. [SUP]18 [/SUP]He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?”

side note: having never studied didnt mean Jesus didnt study because we know He did from a
child luke 2:40-49. Just not the usual system of their day.

crossnote · Jan 28, 2013

God gave the Israelites in Egypt many experiences and miracles in the desert, Jesus showed Himself as the Messiah through many miracles including His resurrection and it goes on in Acts. But the purpose of these experiences and those that happen to us are to point to the truthfulness of His messenger who points to His Word. God as He dealt with these cases and us does not want us to 'dwell' there or keep expecting the 'experiences' but rather He wants to wean us off them and on to His Word so that we walk by faith and not by sight.

Grandpa · Jan 28, 2013

RickyZ said:

Experiential learning should weigh in quite heavily on bible interpretation. But that experiential learning should not cause any part of the bible to become meaningless or contradictory. It should cause a light bulb to come on and you to say " Ohhhh... now I get it..."

RickyZ · Jan 29, 2013

tribesman said:

I don't agree. Having had the experience of Gods overwhelming grace for one so sinful and useless as I, I am then called upon to have the experience of sharing such Grace with others. Like Tommy said, Gods word is life and living. But how does that play out? Via experiencing it.

So, somebody makes an argument that there is no such blessing as a personal tongue, another argues against the ability to cast out demons in this day and age. And they make compelling arguments out of scripture that yeah sure sounds convincing. But then I'm walkin' up the Venice boardwalk, come across a large and growing group of krishnas, singing and chanting and beating the drum and showing every sign of just getting started. My 'spidey senses' go on alert, so I step back, and quietly in my personal prayer language, in the Authority and Name of my Lord Jesus, I bound, silenced, and commanded dispersal of the group and it's demons (actually I was speaking to them first and then the humans). Returning 5 minutes later, there was no sign of them.

Point is, God bless those of you who can spout scripture all day long, beat me up with it if you wish, but at the end of the day as you walked down the sidewalk, did you really experience it?

crossnote said:

I was with you up until the weaning process. The experiences are evidence of the walk by faith. And while yes we do need to keep the experience in it's place, I think God would like us to have a little more of them.

RickyZ · Jan 29, 2013

Grandpa said:

Amen!

And Amen again to get my 20 character minimum!

crossnote · Jan 29, 2013

RickyZ said:

I don't agree. Having had the experience of Gods overwhelming grace for one so sinful and useless as I, I am then called upon to have the experience of sharing such Grace with others. Like Tommy said, Gods word is life and living. But how does that play out? Via experiencing it.

So, somebody makes an argument that there is no such blessing as a personal tongue, another argues against the ability to cast out demons in this day and age. And they make compelling arguments out of scripture that yeah sure sounds convincing. But then I'm walkin' up the Venice boardwalk, come across a large and growing group of krishnas, singing and chanting and beating the drum and showing every sign of just getting started. My 'spidey senses' go on alert, so I step back, and quietly in my personal prayer language, in the Authority and Name of my Lord Jesus, I bound, silenced, and commanded dispersal of the group and it's demons (actually I was speaking to them first and then the humans). Returning 5 minutes later, there was no sign of them.

Point is, God bless those of you who can spout scripture all day long, beat me up with it if you wish, but at the end of the day as you walked down the sidewalk, did you really experience it?

I was with you up until the weaning process. The experiences are evidence of the walk by faith. And while yes we do need to keep the experience in it's place, I think God would like us to have a little more of them.

as we mature we learn to follow His Word not expect experiences.

pickles · Jan 29, 2013

Scripture says, do not rely on your own understanding.
One can speak of an experience, but it should always be such that is based in scripture, or points to scripture giving all glory to God.
For all should give glory to God!

God bless
pickles

psychomom · Jan 29, 2013

Experience 'weighing in on Bible interpretation'?

I would say Sola Sctiptura...the Word of God interpreting experience.
Since all our experiences differ, we need (and have) a standard--the Bible
to tell us what our experiences mean.

Otherwise, isn't it all a bit subjective?

loveme1 · Jan 29, 2013

Something i came across and thought of this thread.

Romans 5

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

The role of experience

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