if God wants to make me a God then i am a God, if God wants to make you a God then you are a God. but that does not mean that you, or me is the father. the son of david that loved God; God has made him higher than the angels,he has made him God,but that does not mean that Jesus is the father. we are told to worship Jesus so Jesus is God but not the father.
the second adam.
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journey41;427386
[B said:
Its funny isn't it. The passage you quoted said "HIS NAME IS THE WORD OF GOD" How can his NAME be something if he is not a seperate identity. How cna he be sitting next to the Father now if he is not seperate. How could he be with the father before he came to earth, and have names, unless he was a seperate entity?[/B]
(How would one actually be in a specific proximity of location to omnipresent Spirit? The Father doesn't have a separate incarnate/glorified form.)
[/SIZE]
Do what? I have never heard this before. Jesus became God? can you explain. Is he or is he not God?
I have never claimed he was the Father. nor do I know anyone else but maybe pneuma who thinks he is even part of the father, and not his own being. so I am not sure what your getting at here.
Do what? I have never heard this before. Jesus became God? can you explain. Is he or is he not God?
I have never claimed he was the Father. nor do I know anyone else but maybe pneuma who thinks he is even part of the father, and not his own being. so I am not sure what your getting at here.
And... Double Whooooaaahhh... I have clearly affirmed repeatedly that the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit.
It's a very common error to interchangeably refer to God as the Father. God is F-S-HS. None are God alone. They're just not three "persons".
And remember EG, you're Triadist/Tritheist rather than Trinitarian. (And I'm in no way being adversarial.)
Jesus is fully God and fully man.
It is the man Christ Jesus that is the second Adam,that said to Mary I ascend to My God and Father,that is the mediator between God and men,that prayed to the Father,that died on the cross.
There has to be a sinless man to reconcile sinful mankind back to a holy God.
No man is sinless,so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.
Since Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,He is the personal human body of God the Father,and makes His deity God the Father,which the Bible says the Son,who is flesh,the man Christ Jesus,shall be called The everlasting Father.
That means it was God that became the second Adam according to His humanity.It was God that became the mediator between God and men by His humanity,which the Bible says to wit,God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.It was God who died on the cross according to His humanity,which the Bible says God laid down His life to take away the sins of the world,and God purchased the Church with His own blood.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5).
Our savior is the man Christ Jesus,for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.
No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus to be that sinless man.
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation(2 Corinthians 5:18-19).
God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,fully God and fully man in harmony.
The saints are the same as Jesus,but Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,while the saints have partial attributes,and will all have glorified bodies and Jesus will be on the throne in heaven,which the man Christ Jesus prayed to the Father,for the saints to be where He is at and behold His glory.
Jesus will be the way the invisible God the Father will have a visible relationship with His people,as the throne in heaven is the throne of both God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
It is the man Christ Jesus that is the second Adam,that said to Mary I ascend to My God and Father,that is the mediator between God and men,that prayed to the Father,that died on the cross.
There has to be a sinless man to reconcile sinful mankind back to a holy God.
No man is sinless,so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.
Since Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,He is the personal human body of God the Father,and makes His deity God the Father,which the Bible says the Son,who is flesh,the man Christ Jesus,shall be called The everlasting Father.
That means it was God that became the second Adam according to His humanity.It was God that became the mediator between God and men by His humanity,which the Bible says to wit,God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.It was God who died on the cross according to His humanity,which the Bible says God laid down His life to take away the sins of the world,and God purchased the Church with His own blood.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5).
Our savior is the man Christ Jesus,for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.
No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus to be that sinless man.
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation(2 Corinthians 5:18-19).
God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,fully God and fully man in harmony.
The saints are the same as Jesus,but Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,while the saints have partial attributes,and will all have glorified bodies and Jesus will be on the throne in heaven,which the man Christ Jesus prayed to the Father,for the saints to be where He is at and behold His glory.
Jesus will be the way the invisible God the Father will have a visible relationship with His people,as the throne in heaven is the throne of both God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is fully God and fully man.
It is the man Christ Jesus that is the second Adam,that said to Mary I ascend to My God and Father,that is the mediator between God and men,that prayed to the Father,that died on the cross.
There has to be a sinless man to reconcile sinful mankind back to a holy God.
No man is sinless,so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.
Since Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,He is the personal human body of God the Father,and makes His deity God the Father,which the Bible says the Son,who is flesh,the man Christ Jesus,shall be called The everlasting Father.
That means it was God that became the second Adam according to His humanity.It was God that became the mediator between God and men by His humanity,which the Bible says to wit,God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.It was God who died on the cross according to His humanity,which the Bible says God laid down His life to take away the sins of the world,and God purchased the Church with His own blood.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5).
Our savior is the man Christ Jesus,for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.
It is the man Christ Jesus that is the second Adam,that said to Mary I ascend to My God and Father,that is the mediator between God and men,that prayed to the Father,that died on the cross.
There has to be a sinless man to reconcile sinful mankind back to a holy God.
No man is sinless,so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.
Since Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,He is the personal human body of God the Father,and makes His deity God the Father,which the Bible says the Son,who is flesh,the man Christ Jesus,shall be called The everlasting Father.
That means it was God that became the second Adam according to His humanity.It was God that became the mediator between God and men by His humanity,which the Bible says to wit,God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.It was God who died on the cross according to His humanity,which the Bible says God laid down His life to take away the sins of the world,and God purchased the Church with His own blood.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5).
Our savior is the man Christ Jesus,for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.
The only plurality in the Godhead is the distinction of the Incarnate flesh in a distinctly separate created temporal realm. God is Spirit that took on flesh by embodying His OWN Divine substance spoken forth by His OWN Word.
Now that the threeness of Trinity is out of the box, there's just no getting them past it and getting back to any sense of oneness. Three "persons" is too discrete to represent Singularity, even with all the various layers (like perichoresis) to attempt to justify the explanations.
No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus to be that sinless man.
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation(2 Corinthians 5:18-19).
God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,fully God and fully man in harmony.
The saints are the same as Jesus,but Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,while the saints have partial attributes,and will all have glorified bodies and Jesus will be on the throne in heaven,which the man Christ Jesus prayed to the Father,for the saints to be where He is at and behold His glory.
Jesus will be the way the invisible God the Father will have a visible relationship with His people,as the throne in heaven is the throne of both God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation(2 Corinthians 5:18-19).
God reconciled sinful mankind back to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,fully God and fully man in harmony.
The saints are the same as Jesus,but Jesus has the fulness of God's attributes,while the saints have partial attributes,and will all have glorified bodies and Jesus will be on the throne in heaven,which the man Christ Jesus prayed to the Father,for the saints to be where He is at and behold His glory.
Jesus will be the way the invisible God the Father will have a visible relationship with His people,as the throne in heaven is the throne of both God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
if God wants to make me a God then i am a God, if God wants to make you a God then you are a God. but that does not mean that you, or me is the father. the son of david that loved God; God has made him higher than the angels,he has made him God,but that does not mean that Jesus is the father. we are told to worship Jesus so Jesus is God but not the father.
People to whom the message came were refered to as gods
John 10:35
But Paul put things in their correct way
For even if there are so called gods whether in Heaven or on earth(as indeed there are many gods and many lords)
yet for us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHOM all things came and FOR WHOM we live, and ONE LORD JUESUS CHRIST THROUGH WHOM all things came and THROUGH WHOM we live
1 Cor 8:5&6
There is only one TRUE God
if God wants to make me a God then i am a God, if God wants to make you a God then you are a God. but that does not mean that you, or me is the father. the son of david that loved God; God has made him higher than the angels,he has made him God,but that does not mean that Jesus is the father. we are told to worship Jesus so Jesus is God but not the father.
This is the single most inane statement I've heard from anyone drawing breath on this planet. I will actually loan... no, wait... GIVE you money to buy a clue.
This did it for me. You have no credibility. You've repeatedly said Jesus is not God. Now you've started saying Jesus became God and was made God. You're completely inconsistent with your own self. Senility perhaps?
And NOBODY is saying the Son is the Father. NOBODY. Learn... that God and Father are not interchangeable terms.
I just don't get how people sit here and reject Jesus as God, just because they don't understand the trinity concept. And Jesus did claim to be God and even if he didn't say it, he claimed to be the Messiah which if you know anything about OT prophecy that equates to the same thing.
Luke 22:70 (New King James Version)
70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?”
So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”
Luke 22:70 (New King James Version)
70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?”
So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”
Actually it is more confusing to believe Jesus is not God. How can jesus be above the angles? For only God can be this. How can Jesus be their before creation and help create all things if he is not God. How can jesus forgive sin, for even as he states only God can forgive sin (he tried to get the jews to see this, but only a few saw it) Jesus is Gods son, He was Gods son before time, Would not Gods son also be God?
he is the word of God that is inside God, he comes out as God speaks,everytime God says something he acts and do the work. Gods word is living it is a being,god comunicates with him ,but he is inside God, because it is his own word.
His word was sent by God to earth; remember his WORD was sent.
Whaaaaat?!?!?!?!
This is the single most inane statement I've heard from anyone drawing breath on this planet. I will actually loan... no, wait... GIVE you money to buy a clue.
This did it for me. You have no credibility. You've repeatedly said Jesus is not God. Now you've started saying Jesus became God and was made God. You're completely inconsistent with your own self. Senility perhaps?
And NOBODY is saying the Son is the Father. NOBODY. Learn... that God and Father are not interchangeable terms.
This is the single most inane statement I've heard from anyone drawing breath on this planet. I will actually loan... no, wait... GIVE you money to buy a clue.
This did it for me. You have no credibility. You've repeatedly said Jesus is not God. Now you've started saying Jesus became God and was made God. You're completely inconsistent with your own self. Senility perhaps?
And NOBODY is saying the Son is the Father. NOBODY. Learn... that God and Father are not interchangeable terms.
Jesus called his Father God. God called Jesus God
"For therefore God, your God has annointed you"
So why does God call Jesus God if he is not God the Father? Because God told us and all the angels to worship Jesus. This makes Jesus a God now. Because he is worshiped. We have to look at the meaning of the word God.
If you worship money, money becomes your God. People dont pray to money, but its the closest to their heart, and they serve it. Put it first place. Do anything for it. If you worship worship Buda, then buda becomes your God etc. Whatever you serve is your God. God told us that Satan was the God of this world. The world serve him, so he is their God. But just because we worship someone or something does not make it the true God, for God said beside me there is no other God. If God told us to worship Jesus, then it is because Jesus obeys God to the full,is the express image and has the fullness of God in him. He is the word of God and came out from God. We are not serving a false God. So obeying God the Father when he commands us to worship Jesus is truly worshiping God the Father, because we are listening to his instructions. We cant have one without the other now.
Jesus has the authority now to forgive sins, but before that he was just the Word of God and we went straight to God. Now he is the mediator, the doorway and all power has been given to him. Men used to pray straight to God before, but now when we pray, we pray through the Lord Jesus' name for we cannot go straight to God anymore but have to go through that door now. His son.
I hope this explaination makes sense.
Look PPS. You might of read my Babylon post, we have to be separate from them. We cannot act like them. The world talk down to people. The world mocks. God resists the proud but gives mercy to the humble. As christians we have to be humble. The judge stands at the door. We are not the judge. We can only guide in love to correct our brothers and sisters. If we disagree, we can discuss. We must be careful not to fall into condemnation. It's not worth it. Let your speech be seasoned with salt. Harsh words like you spoke is not tasteful for a man in God to speak.
[/QUOTE]Thats a bit harsh! I understood perfectly what he was saying. If you stop and think about it for a moment you would understand.
Jesus called his Father God. God called Jesus God
"For therefore God, your God has annointed you"
So why does God call Jesus God if he is not God the Father? Because God told us and all the angels to worship Jesus. This makes Jesus a God now. Because he is worshiped. We have to look at the meaning of the word God.
If you worship money, money becomes your God. People dont pray to money, but its the closest to their heart, and they serve it. Put it first place. Do anything for it. If you worship worship Buda, then buda becomes your God etc. Whatever you serve is your God. God told us that Satan was the God of this world. The world serve him, so he is their God. But just because we worship someone or something does not make it the true God, for God said beside me there is no other God. If God told us to worship Jesus, then it is because Jesus obeys God to the full,is the express image and has the fullness of God in him. He is the word of God and came out from God. We are not serving a false God. So obeying God the Father when he commands us to worship Jesus is truly worshiping God the Father, because we are listening to his instructions. We cant have one without the other now.
Jesus has the authority now to forgive sins, but before that he was just the Word of God and we went straight to God. Now he is the mediator, the doorway and all power has been given to him. Men used to pray straight to God before, but now when we pray, we pray through the Lord Jesus' name for we cannot go straight to God anymore but have to go through that door now. His son.
I hope this explaination makes sense.
Jesus called his Father God. God called Jesus God
"For therefore God, your God has annointed you"
So why does God call Jesus God if he is not God the Father? Because God told us and all the angels to worship Jesus. This makes Jesus a God now. Because he is worshiped. We have to look at the meaning of the word God.
If you worship money, money becomes your God. People dont pray to money, but its the closest to their heart, and they serve it. Put it first place. Do anything for it. If you worship worship Buda, then buda becomes your God etc. Whatever you serve is your God. God told us that Satan was the God of this world. The world serve him, so he is their God. But just because we worship someone or something does not make it the true God, for God said beside me there is no other God. If God told us to worship Jesus, then it is because Jesus obeys God to the full,is the express image and has the fullness of God in him. He is the word of God and came out from God. We are not serving a false God. So obeying God the Father when he commands us to worship Jesus is truly worshiping God the Father, because we are listening to his instructions. We cant have one without the other now.
Jesus has the authority now to forgive sins, but before that he was just the Word of God and we went straight to God. Now he is the mediator, the doorway and all power has been given to him. Men used to pray straight to God before, but now when we pray, we pray through the Lord Jesus' name for we cannot go straight to God anymore but have to go through that door now. His son.
I hope this explaination makes sense.
Look PPS. You might of read my Babylon post, we have to be separate from them. We cannot act like them. The world talk down to people. The world mocks. God resists the proud but gives mercy to the humble. As christians we have to be humble. The judge stands at the door. We are not the judge. We can only guide in love to correct our brothers and sisters. If we disagree, we can discuss. We must be careful not to fall into condemnation. It's not worth it. Let your speech be seasoned with salt. Harsh words like you spoke is not tasteful for a man in God to speak.
Clearly... in English, not Greek... Scripture says "In the beginning... the Word was God.". God didn't "make" Him God; the Word inherently was God.
I'll revert to leaving you guys alone. I realize now you are much further from the truth than I initially thought and hoped you were. My harshness came from a bit of surprise and disappointment.
E
he is the word of God that is inside God, he comes out as God speaks,everytime God says something he acts and do the work. Gods word is living it is a being,god comunicates with him ,but he is inside God, because it is his own word.
His word was sent by God to earth; remember his WORD was sent.
His word was sent by God to earth; remember his WORD was sent.
reread what you posted. it makes no sense.
You lose me there because if Jesus was just man he would be a sinner like us and unable to pay for our sins.
I am with you there.
John 1 clearly states that the "Word WAS God", and then goes on to say that "In him was life, and that light was the light of men. The light that shines in the darkness" and the goes on to say that John the Baptist came to testify concerning that light (the Word of God who WAS God) and then John the baptist adds that this light though coming after him surpassed him because he(the light) was before him. The in chapter 2 he says "This is the one I meant when I said "A man who come after me has surpassed me because he was before me"(speaking about Jesus). Now if you know you laws of mathematics, if two things are equal to the same thing they are equal to each other. the light = Jesus AND the light = the Word, thus Jesus = the Word. PLUS Jesus = the Word AND the Word = God, thus JESUS = GOD. Those are rules written into the very fabric of Science and Mathematics called the transitive property.
I don't claim to know all the answers but if you do your research you will find that Jesus not only IS God, but has to be God or all hope is lost.
See that is taking things out of context. Take the whole passage now and lets see what we have..
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
We are to believe in Jesus the only begotten Son of God. . .why? because he came into the world not to condemn the world but to save it. If we believe that Jesus is the Son of our holy and perfect God, then we must believe in his purpose here on earth. . .to be the Saviour of the world, our Saviour.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
Good verse but again taken out of context, this tells us that we are meant love, testify and confess. The Old Testament is clear enough in its prophecies that Jesus will be God with us, not like God to us, or a good Godly man, but GOD WITH US!
I am with you there.
John 1 clearly states that the "Word WAS God", and then goes on to say that "In him was life, and that light was the light of men. The light that shines in the darkness" and the goes on to say that John the Baptist came to testify concerning that light (the Word of God who WAS God) and then John the baptist adds that this light though coming after him surpassed him because he(the light) was before him. The in chapter 2 he says "This is the one I meant when I said "A man who come after me has surpassed me because he was before me"(speaking about Jesus). Now if you know you laws of mathematics, if two things are equal to the same thing they are equal to each other. the light = Jesus AND the light = the Word, thus Jesus = the Word. PLUS Jesus = the Word AND the Word = God, thus JESUS = GOD. Those are rules written into the very fabric of Science and Mathematics called the transitive property.
I don't claim to know all the answers but if you do your research you will find that Jesus not only IS God, but has to be God or all hope is lost.
See that is taking things out of context. Take the whole passage now and lets see what we have..
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.[a] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but[b] have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
We are to believe in Jesus the only begotten Son of God. . .why? because he came into the world not to condemn the world but to save it. If we believe that Jesus is the Son of our holy and perfect God, then we must believe in his purpose here on earth. . .to be the Saviour of the world, our Saviour.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.
Good verse but again taken out of context, this tells us that we are meant love, testify and confess. The Old Testament is clear enough in its prophecies that Jesus will be God with us, not like God to us, or a good Godly man, but GOD WITH US!