The second coming of Christ

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PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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#1
Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew ,who will be taken away and who will remain?
How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,491
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#2
[pre-tribber here :) ]

This parable's setting [/context] is His Second Coming to the earth time-slot (FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [not our Rapture]).

The tares are said to be gathered FIRST... and gathered OUT (IOW, the "wheat" is not leaving-off the earth), and gathered by angels (who will "REAP"). [this ^ "FIRST" is in the exact OPPOSITE SEQUENCE from that of our Rapture-event, btw]

The wheat (note: I've presented in past posts why I believe the 144,000 [future] are "firstfruit" of the WHEAT harvest) remains on the earth but now entering the earthly MK age (the "My barn" of the passage). The "wheat" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" [farming implement]
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,496
3,674
113
#3
Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew ,who will be taken away and who will remain?
How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?
Good question. How would you reconcile the two? No? Hmm...…..oh, wait, your M.O. is to ask such questions without providing ANY thoughts of your own, huh?
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#4
Good question. How would you reconcile the two? No? Hmm...…..oh, wait, your M.O. is to ask such questions without providing ANY thoughts of your own, huh?
Good question. How would you reconcile the two? No? Hmm...…..oh, wait, your M.O. is to ask such questions without providing ANY thoughts of your own, huh?
Good question. How would you reconcile the two? No? Hmm...…..oh, wait, your M.O. is to ask such questions without providing ANY thoughts of your own, huh?
My MO dear friend is to learn.If you do not ask questions how will you learn. Contrary to what you are thinking I do not possess infinit knowledge. Settle down and less talk. There are things I can learn from you.I just have to dig them out. Everyone has something they can contribute and I want to know. Not long ago while I was watching "Christian ":TV I received information from this "teacher' in a religion I felt to be founded in error. Nevertheless he said something related to a scripture I was studying that opened up a channel
to greatly understand more of what I wanted to know. Now am here among my brothers still seeking ,only to be chastised from those whom I seek to fellowship with.

Believe me you could not know how many times I have been ostracized for my scriptural interpretation. Very few times have I been offered a kind audience . Mostly its always "he does not think the traditional way he must be a false profit. And now heres where you say 'well if the shoe fits' don't bother I have herd the conversation so many times I can talk for both sides. If ever you consider looking some where besides traditional theology there is much you and I can learn. Remember what you interpret from the scriptures was not from what YOU read but you studied from someones interpretation. I have been there I know. I can tell you that you have taken what you have heard and chased it into a dead end and could not go any further . Believe me when I tell you there is always MORE. Don't be caught up in the tradition of your elders. Seek More.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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#5
Since the day of the Lord, or the day of the wrath of God is revealed in the book of Revelation as an outpouring of consecutive judgments that are carried out over a period of 7 years (Daniels 70th week) it would make logical sense that the ones that are taken are the ones that are saved and the ones left are the ones that suffer the consecutive judgments. To suggest that the ones taken are taken in judgment is to suggest that the judgment will be an instantaneous occurrence but that is not what Revelation reveals.
 
Mar 21, 2009
1,240
414
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New York
#6
The opening of the seal answers to the near kinsman redeemer who had the right to open the seal and redeem the purchased possession. The next thing he had the right to do was to dispossess the land of its unlawful inhabitants and give it back to the rightful heirs. Thus the judgments being poured out consecutively some killing one third of men and another killing another third of men is accomplishing the task of dispossessing the earth of the wicked and preparing it to be handed to the meek.
 
Aug 21, 2019
125
9
18
#7
Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew ,who will be taken away and who will remain?
How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?
Most have a mistaken identification of the words "taken" and "left". and of the groups themselves:

Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

"two men" = two types of persons among humanity
"bed" = grave of death - Job 17:13.

"two women" = two types of churches among humanity
"grinding together" = grain, or gospel bread (made of seed, Christ), see Rev 12, and 17 (18:23).

"two men" = two types in the church
"in the field" = world or church (Mat. 13:38)

The word "taken" refers to being destroyed:

Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Isa_40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Hos_1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Hos_5:14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

Joh_11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The word "left" refers to being preserved as a "remnant" at the coming of Jesus, as Noah was "left" alive or only remaining faithful.

1Ki_19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

Jer_15:15 O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.

Notice the concluding thought when the disciples asked:

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Where will they be taken Lord? in destruction to come ...

They shall be taken unawares.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

2Pe_2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2Th_2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Luk_19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

Dan_7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,251
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#8
The opening of the seal answers to the near kinsman redeemer who had the right to open the seal and redeem the purchased possession. The next thing he had the right to do was to dispossess the land of its unlawful inhabitants and give it back to the rightful heirs. Thus the judgments being poured out consecutively some killing one third of men and another killing another third of men is accomplishing the task of dispossessing the earth of the wicked and preparing it to be handed to the meek.
Yes the kinsman redeemer.
Awesome
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
4,491
922
113
#9
The word "taken" refers to being destroyed:
Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[…]
The word "left" refers to being preserved as a "remnant" at the coming of Jesus, as Noah was "left" alive or only remaining faithful.
[…]
Agreed.

Notice the concluding thought when the disciples asked:
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Agreed.

[I don't agree that 2Th2:7 is speaking of the same event/context (re: the "taken")... Here, I believe it says (instead), "the one restraining at present, will restrain, until out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed"... I believe this is referring to the event taking place 7-yrs BEFORE the other context above (when, in the case of 2Th2:7, the 7-yr trib will thereafter unfold upon the earth [with its "man of sin" and all he will DO in those 7 yrs])]
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,134
2,686
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#10
Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew ,who will be taken away and who will remain?
How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?
I believe the parable is about the Day of the last Judgement, which comes 1000 years after the return of our LORD Jesus Christ.. All the tares are burnt in the parable.. All those destined to the eternal lake of fire will be cast into it on the day of the last judgement..

Matthew 13: KJV

24 "¶ Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: {25} But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. {26} But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. {27} So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? {28} He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? {29} But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. {30} Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,534
993
113
#11
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

We learn two things from verse 37,
1) Those that were taken, were taken to the place WHERE THE DEAD BODY WAS.
2) Those that we’re taken are called eagles.

And, if the dead body is Christ, which I’m almost 100% sure that it is, then they were taken sometime during the three days Christ’s dead body was in the tomb.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
13,858
1,626
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65
#12
Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew ,who will be taken away and who will remain?
How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?
My understanding is the wheat is gathered and the tares are burned. So with the text you gave 1 Th 4:17 the ones caught up and taken would be considered the wheat.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,457
1,542
113
#13
Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew 13,who will be taken away and who will remain?

How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?
Hello Perfection,

First of all, the parable of the wheat and the weeds has nothing to do with the gathering of the church, but is speaking about when the Lord returns to the earth to the end of the age, which is also described in Matt.24:30-31.

Below is the parable:


=========================================================
The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ” - Matt.13:29-30

The scripture above is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31, 38-41

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

(Note: The angels will be gathering the wicked and righteous who survive the tribulation, from every corner of the earth)

"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
===========================================================

All of the scriptures above, are in reference to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. That said, I'd like to direct your attention to the parable of the wheat and the weeds in Matt.13:30 which says, "first collect the weeds." Keep this in mind as we go on.

Next we have the "one taken, one left" scripture in Matt.24:38-41. In the scripture, "the one taken" group are being compared to those who were taken away in the flood. Therefore, the comparison must be wicked to wicked. I say this because many have tried to make the "one taken" as referring to the rapture, which it is not. As I said, the "one taken" group is being compared to those taken away in the flood. Therefore the "one taken" is referring to the wicked.

In Luke's version, when the Lord says "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples ask "Where, Lord?" That is, where are they going to be taken? Jesus then responds with "Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather." In order to understand Jesus' response, we must go to Rev.19:17 which is an event which takes place as Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age.

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Now, let's put of this scriptural information together.

As Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age, according to Matt.13:30 and 24:31, He will send out His angels/harvesters to first collect the weeds (wicked), which represents the "one taken" group.

Where they will be taken to will be to the area where Jesus will be descending to at the battle of Har-Mageddon. The beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20). Then Jesus will kill all of those kings, generals, the mighty, horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small with that double-edged sword which proceeds from His mouth, which is figurative of the word of God. At that same time, that angel of Rev.19:17 will have been calling all of the birds/vultures to gather for the great supper of God, who will gorge themselves on all of those killed by the double-edged sword, including the "one taken" group which the angels will have collected and brought there.

After that, the angels will gather the wheat which will be those great tribulation saints who will have made it through the entire tribulation period alive. They will enter into the millennial kingdom still in their mortal bodies and along with the remnant of Israel, they will repopulate the earth.

I hope this is beneficial
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,251
1,300
113
#14
Hello Perfection,

First of all, the parable of the wheat and the weeds has nothing to do with the gathering of the church, but is speaking about when the Lord returns to the earth to the end of the age, which is also described in Matt.24:30-31.

Below is the parable:


=========================================================
The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ” - Matt.13:29-30

The scripture above is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31, 38-41

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

(Note: The angels will be gathering the wicked and righteous who survive the tribulation, from every corner of the earth)

"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
===========================================================

All of the scriptures above, are in reference to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. That said, I'd like to direct your attention to the parable of the wheat and the weeds in Matt.13:30 which says, "first collect the weeds." Keep this in mind as we go on.

Next we have the "one taken, one left" scripture in Matt.24:38-41. In the scripture, "the one taken" group are being compared to those who were taken away in the flood. Therefore, the comparison must be wicked to wicked. I say this because many have tried to make the "one taken" as referring to the rapture, which it is not. As I said, the "one taken" group is being compared to those taken away in the flood. Therefore the "one taken" is referring to the wicked.

In Luke's version, when the Lord says "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples ask "Where, Lord?" That is, where are they going to be taken? Jesus then responds with "Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather." In order to understand Jesus' response, we must go to Rev.19:17 which is an event which takes place as Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age.

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Now, let's put of this scriptural information together.

As Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age, according to Matt.13:30 and 24:31, He will send out His angels/harvesters to first collect the weeds (wicked), which represents the "one taken" group.

Where they will be taken to will be to the area where Jesus will be descending to at the battle of Har-Mageddon. The beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20). Then Jesus will kill all of those kings, generals, the mighty, horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small with that double-edged sword which proceeds from His mouth, which is figurative of the word of God. At that same time, that angel of Rev.19:17 will have been calling all of the birds/vultures to gather for the great supper of God, who will gorge themselves on all of those killed by the double-edged sword, including the "one taken" group which the angels will have collected and brought there.

After that, the angels will gather the wheat which will be those great tribulation saints who will have made it through the entire tribulation period alive. They will enter into the millennial kingdom still in their mortal bodies and along with the remnant of Israel, they will repopulate the earth.

I hope this is beneficial
Ok this needs addressing.
1 the tares are immediately burned.
This points to the question at the BEGINNING of mat 24. "When is the end of the world"
It is the end (lof) not the second coming
2) the vultures feed on the dead killed in battle,not someone raptured off a roof top or asleep in bed.
3) the ones taken are all in a peacetime normal everyday setting.
The rapture is such a setting.
4 Jesus frames the "one taken" with the rapture.

When the theory you presented is testfitted,it does not work.

The one taken only fits the rapture. Once that dynamic is off the table,we end up in a quandry.

BTW, in mat 3 the wheat is gathered first,The culls burned afterwards.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,475
3,997
113
#15
Jesus, Yeshua, will send His angels to first gather those who sleep in the hope of His coming and second those who are yet alive in the flesh in His hope. I suppose all that remains will be gone with that loud noise that accompanies the elemnts being dissolved by flame.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#16
Hello Perfection,

First of all, the parable of the wheat and the weeds has nothing to do with the gathering of the church, but is speaking about when the Lord returns to the earth to the end of the age, which is also described in Matt.24:30-31.

Below is the parable:


=========================================================
The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ” - Matt.13:29-30

The scripture above is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31, 38-41

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

(Note: The angels will be gathering the wicked and righteous who survive the tribulation, from every corner of the earth)

"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."
===========================================================

All of the scriptures above, are in reference to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. That said, I'd like to direct your attention to the parable of the wheat and the weeds in Matt.13:30 which says, "first collect the weeds." Keep this in mind as we go on.

Next we have the "one taken, one left" scripture in Matt.24:38-41. In the scripture, "the one taken" group are being compared to those who were taken away in the flood. Therefore, the comparison must be wicked to wicked. I say this because many have tried to make the "one taken" as referring to the rapture, which it is not. As I said, the "one taken" group is being compared to those taken away in the flood. Therefore the "one taken" is referring to the wicked.

In Luke's version, when the Lord says "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples ask "Where, Lord?" That is, where are they going to be taken? Jesus then responds with "Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather." In order to understand Jesus' response, we must go to Rev.19:17 which is an event which takes place as Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age.

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Now, let's put of this scriptural information together.

As Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age, according to Matt.13:30 and 24:31, He will send out His angels/harvesters to first collect the weeds (wicked), which represents the "one taken" group.

Where they will be taken to will be to the area where Jesus will be descending to at the battle of Har-Mageddon. The beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20). Then Jesus will kill all of those kings, generals, the mighty, horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small with that double-edged sword which proceeds from His mouth, which is figurative of the word of God. At that same time, that angel of Rev.19:17 will have been calling all of the birds/vultures to gather for the great supper of God, who will gorge themselves on all of those killed by the double-edged sword, including the "one taken" group which the angels will have collected and brought there.

After that, the angels will gather the wheat which will be those great tribulation saints who will have made it through the entire tribulation period alive. They will enter into the millennial kingdom still in their mortal bodies and along with the remnant of Israel, they will repopulate the earth.

I hope this is beneficial
Yes it is beneficial .
Let me ask you this. Do you believe those Christians who have died have the ability to improve themselves in the eyes of God?
Also if it is possible (not saying that it is not) that I as Christian will be subjected to 7 years tribulation, how is that(for lack of a better word) fair ? Those who have died get to lay back in whatever state they exist while I am subjected to 7 years( if I am a pretribulationest)
of trial. Why do I have to suffer this event? This question is perpetual . Pre, mid, or post. Why me, why my children,why, my grandchildren?
I do know that when young Christians, hear preachers, expounding on the book of Revelations from the pulpit they become afraid. All of these interactions leave them confused as just where they exist in the midst of all these events. Yes I know they should not but they do.
I cannot begin to tell you about how many of these precious souls have came to me wanting some answers that would give them assurance as to where they stood in the midst of all these things. Once they have heard these Revelation professes its hard to get their minds back to the safety of Gods grace.

Please do not misunderstand I love Revelation, but I have worn out many bibles and still most of the book of Revelation remains a mystery yet to be reveled to me. I still read Revelations praying each time Lord please show me more.

Love you brother.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
12,534
993
113
#17
Yes it is beneficial .
Let me ask you this. Do you believe those Christians who have died have the ability to improve themselves in the eyes of God?
Also if it is possible (not saying that it is not) that I as Christian will be subjected to 7 years tribulation, how is that(for lack of a better word) fair ? Those who have died get to lay back in whatever state they exist while I am subjected to 7 years( if I am a pretribulationest)
of trial. Why do I have to suffer this event? This question is perpetual . Pre, mid, or post. Why me, why my children,why, my grandchildren?
I do know that when young Christians, hear preachers, expounding on the book of Revelations from the pulpit they become afraid. All of these interactions leave them confused as just where they exist in the midst of all these events. Yes I know they should not but they do.
I cannot begin to tell you about how many of these precious souls have came to me wanting some answers that would give them assurance as to where they stood in the midst of all these things. Once they have heard these Revelation professes its hard to get their minds back to the safety of Gods grace.

Please do not misunderstand I love Revelation, but I have worn out many bibles and still most of the book of Revelation remains a mystery yet to be reveled to me. I still read Revelations praying each time Lord please show me more.

Love you brother.
My advise is to come to the book of Revelation looking for Christ or something he does on every page. Also look for a second witness in the old testament. :)
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,650
113
#19
Most have a mistaken identification of the words "taken" and "left". and of the groups themselves:

Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

"two men" = two types of persons among humanity
"bed" = grave of death - Job 17:13.

"two women" = two types of churches among humanity
"grinding together" = grain, or gospel bread (made of seed, Christ), see Rev 12, and 17 (18:23).

"two men" = two types in the church
"in the field" = world or church (Mat. 13:38)

The word "taken" refers to being destroyed:

Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Isa_40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

Hos_1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

Hos_5:14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.

Joh_11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

Rev_22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The word "left" refers to being preserved as a "remnant" at the coming of Jesus, as Noah was "left" alive or only remaining faithful.

1Ki_19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

Jer_15:15 O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.

Notice the concluding thought when the disciples asked:

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Where will they be taken Lord? in destruction to come ...

They shall be taken unawares.

Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

2Pe_2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2Th_2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Luk_19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

Dan_7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Your focus is on just being taken away for destruction, there are other verses about being taken up on eagles wings placed in his barn, there’s a couple of people mentioned in the Bible about being taken up either to see something or we don’t know quite what happened to them and what the Lord purpose of that.

Your post is compelling but it appears to be focused on just being taken to destruction.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#20
Ok this needs addressing.
1 the tares are immediately burned.
The burning of the weeds is in reference to what happens to them after they are killed, where their spirits are cast into the furnace, i.e. Hades. It does not negate the fact that their bodies are killed by the Lord by that double-edged sword. Both scriptures need to be taken into consideration. When the angels first collect the weeds, they take them to the area where all of those kings, generals and all their armies will be amassed and then the following happens to them:

"And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. "

Once their bodies are killed with that double-edged sword, then their spirits are thrown into the furnace.

2) the vultures feed on the dead killed in battle,not someone raptured off a roof top or asleep in bed.
This is what the scripture says:

"so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.

The first part of the verse is referring to those kings and their armies and the last part of the verse is including all men, which would include those who will have been taken there by the angels.

The scriptures that I provided regarding the parable of the "one taken," and "the wheat and the weeds" are all referring to the end of the age. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. So all of these scriptures are speaking about the same event.

The fact is that at the end of the age, the angels will be sent out and will first collect the weeds/wicked, where after their bodies have been killed, then their spirits will be thrown into the furnace (Hades). But first their bodies will be killed by that double-edged sword.

3) the ones taken are all in a peacetime normal everyday setting. The rapture is such a setting.
No, it is not a peacetime setting. As I made clear in my post, the "one taken" group is being compared to those who were taken in the flood, which would mean that the comparison is wicked to wicked.

Also, based on the level of sin and evil in the world today, do you really think that 50% of the world is going to be raptured? The reference to two men being in the field and one being taken and the other left, would infer that 50% would be caught up.

This scripture of "one taken" has been misinterpreted by many. I told you what Jesus meant when He said, "Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather," which is referring to the gathering of those birds as Jesus is descending to the earth to end the age, who eat the flesh of those who will have been killed by that double-edged.

One taken = the wicked, those will have worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark and who, at the end of the age, will be taken by the angels to be killed by the double-edged sword which proceeds from the Lord's mouth. Then their spirits are cast into the furnace (Hades).

One Left = The great tribulation saints who will make it alive through the entire tribulation period and who will enter into the millennial kingdom to repopulate the earth, along with Israel

4 Jesus frames the "one taken" with the rapture.

When the theory you presented is test-fitted, it does not work.

The one taken only fits the rapture. Once that dynamic is off the table,we end up in a quandry.

BTW, in mat 3 the wheat is gathered first,The culls burned afterwards.
That wheat is being gathered first in Matt.3:11 is not true. Below is the scripture:

"His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

So the order is 1). clear His threshing floor which is referring to the wicked and then 2). gather His wheat into the barn. It's the same order as the parable in the parable in Matt.13 where the harvesters/angels FIRST gather the weeds and then gather the wheat into the barn.

There is no way that the "one taken" is referring to the rapture of the church.

However, you are of course free to believe that if you desire.