The Surest Signs of...

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#2
Would you care to comment on this quotation and back it up with Scripture? Is this really the surest sign, or are there other surer signs according to the New Testament?
 
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Depleted

Guest
#3
Would you care to comment on this quotation and back it up with Scripture? Is this really the surest sign, or are there other surer signs according to the New Testament?
Eventually. I'm hoping you will consider it and tell me what you think.
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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#4
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#5
Eventually. I'm hoping you will consider it and tell me what you think.
Well this is what Jonathan Edwards said: The surest signs of true regeneration [are] when we love those attributes of God that are most reprehensible to the natural man".

On the surface this appears to be sound, but let's analyze it? What is most reprehensible to the natural man? God's holiness, righteousness, justice, and hatred and wrath against sin. So what Edwards is saying that if we love these attributes that is the surest sign of having been born again or regenerated. But is that what the Bible actually teaches?

The first epistle of John is probably one of the best writings to give us the SUREST signs of regeneration, and they are not really corresponding to Edwards criteria. So here is a list from this epistle:

1. Walking in the light ( 1 Jn 1:7) -- meaning walking in the Spirit and according to the Light of the written Word

2. Refusing to say that we have no sin (1 Jn: 1:8-10) -- examining ourselves daily, confessing daily, repenting daily

3. Obeying Christ's commandments (1 Jn 2:3-6) -- walking as Christ walked

These are just a few of the surest signs of regeneration. But each one reading this thread should go through the entire epistle and discover that there are at least another dozen signs which the Holy Spirit has revealed through John. Which means that Jonathan Edwards aphorism should be set aside for actual Scripture.
 
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#6
Well this is what Jonathan Edwards said: The surest signs of true regeneration [are] when we love those attributes of God that are most reprehensible to the natural man".

On the surface this appears to be sound, but let's analyze it? What is most reprehensible to the natural man? God's holiness, righteousness, justice, and hatred and wrath against sin. So what Edwards is saying that if we love these attributes that is the surest sign of having been born again or regenerated. But is that what the Bible actually teaches?

The first epistle of John is probably one of the best writings to give us the SUREST signs of regeneration, and they are not really corresponding to Edwards criteria. So here is a list from this epistle:

1. Walking in the light ( 1 Jn 1:7) -- meaning walking in the Spirit and according to the Light of the written Word

2. Refusing to say that we have no sin (1 Jn: 1:8-10) -- examining ourselves daily, confessing daily, repenting daily

3. Obeying Christ's commandments (1 Jn 2:3-6) -- walking as Christ walked

These are just a few of the surest signs of regeneration. But each one reading this thread should go through the entire epistle and discover that there are at least another dozen signs which the Holy Spirit has revealed through John. Which means that Jonathan Edwards aphorism should be set aside for actual Scripture.
Really? So you think unregenerated man hates holiness, righteousness, justice, or even thinks about sin? I remember before regeneration. I liked holiness, righteousness, and justice.
 
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#7
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
... which means to you? Huh? Sorry. Not getting what you mean.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#8
Really? So you think unregenerated man hates holiness, righteousness, justice, or even thinks about sin? I remember before regeneration. I liked holiness, righteousness, and justice.
Yes, but did you really want to face the wrath of God and eternal Hell? Holiness, righteousness, and justice are the attributes of God which cause Him to hate iniquity, and caused Him to prepare Hell for the Devil and his angels. No sinner wants to seriously consider the consequences of sin, just as no criminal wants to seriously consider the consequences of crime. And all evidoers plead "Not guilty" before human judges, but will not be able to do the same before God the Judge of All.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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#9
Really? So you think unregenerated man hates holiness, righteousness, justice, or even thinks about sin? I remember before regeneration. I liked holiness, righteousness, and justice.
I tell you what is from God that is most vehemently opposed---it's HIS HOLY SABBATH !
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
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#10
Would you care to comment on this quotation and back it up with Scripture? Is this really the surest sign, or are there other surer signs according to the New Testament?
Dude was this comment really necessary? If you want to nit pick maybe do it on something more reasonable, I mean this post by Lynn was very encouraging and it wasn't like she was saying it's the one and only sure sign I mean many say love is the one sure sign or that faith or holiness is the one sure sign that a person is a true Christian but it is not anyone one of them by themselves because the fruits are connected and yet we can say one of them is the true sign with knowing that the other fruits are directly connected to it right?

Personally this thread is encouraging and that is something the church needs and that is enough for this to be a valid and Godly post is it not?
 
Aug 11, 2017
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#11
Scripture tells us what divine things are rejected by natural man. The cross as a means of power (1 Corinthians 1:23), death of the flesh (Romans 8), and Jesus as Christ in the flesh (Matt 16:17). There are probably more, but these come to mind.

Few unbelievers are in rebellion to God because they want to be bad people. Most believe in virtue and think they are good people. The issue is whether we believe our flesh is really capable of good.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#12
Dude was this comment really necessary? If you want to nit pick maybe do it on something more reasonable...
There was absolutely no nit picking. A quote from a bygone preacher was presented. It appeared to be biblical but it really was not. So the bottom line is what does the Bible say about proofs of regeneration? Why don't you tell us rather that try to find fault with another's post?
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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549
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#13
Scripture tells us what divine things are rejected by natural man. The cross as a means of power (1 Corinthians 1:23), death of the flesh (Romans 8), and Jesus as Christ in the flesh (Matt 16:17). There are probably more, but these come to mind.

Few unbelievers are in rebellion to God because they want to be bad people. Most believe in virtue and think they are good people. The issue is whether we believe our flesh is really capable of good.
Fair enough. But what are the proofs of regeneration? We need to stay on this topic.
 
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#14
Yes, but did you really want to face the wrath of God and eternal Hell? Holiness, righteousness, and justice are the attributes of God which cause Him to hate iniquity, and caused Him to prepare Hell for the Devil and his angels. No sinner wants to seriously consider the consequences of sin, just as no criminal wants to seriously consider the consequences of crime. And all evidoers plead "Not guilty" before human judges, but will not be able to do the same before God the Judge of All.
Ah, so you at least recognize God has at least one attribute Unregenerateds don't like. How about you? Have you yet come to this point?

 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
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#15
There was absolutely no nit picking. A quote from a bygone preacher was presented. It appeared to be biblical but it really was not. So the bottom line is what does the Bible say about proofs of regeneration? Why don't you tell us rather that try to find fault with another's post?
For starters Isaiah 55: 8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
This scripture indicates that things that the natural man hates about God is because his ways are not our ways nor are his thoughts our thoughts, There was nothing un scriptural about that quote it is a fact. I mean before you knew him how different were you from who you are now? The reason such a change happens is because to our natural flesh and thinking most things about him contradict it
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#16
Ah, so you at least recognize God has at least one attribute Unregenerateds don't like. How about you? Have you yet come to this point?
Well, how about you Lynn? Is this thread merely to stir the pot (as usual) or get down to some serious Bible discussion? How come you have not posted ONE SINGLE biblical sign of regeneration as yet? That is what this thread is supposed to be about, not unregenerates.
 
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#17
I tell you what is from God that is most vehemently opposed---it's HIS HOLY SABBATH !
Really? I would think that sovereignty attribute is hard to swallow. To think, we aren't in control of anything. Our say doesn't matter. We are not the rulers of the universe, the world, our country, our town, our family or even ourselves. That to me was tough.

And God's wrath? He killed thousands at a time. He told Israel to wipe out entire nations. He killed two people for not sharing their money with the community completely, when they sold the land. It wasn't like it wasn't their money, and yet God was very wrathful.

Sabbath Day? Not getting it.
 
Aug 11, 2017
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#18
At the moment, based on my research I'd tend to agree with Nehemiah6 that the OP is a nonsequitor. There are qualities of God that the carnal mind rejects, and then there is evidence of regeneration, and these two concepts seem to be unrelated. Acceptance of what the carnal mind rejects (Jesus as savior, the cross as our victory) is step 1 of receiving salvation, but the demonstrable proof of regeneration is something else.

Of course, I'm interested in hearing what Lynn has to offer in defense of the OP.
 
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Guest
#19
Well, how about you Lynn? Is this thread merely to stir the pot (as usual) or get down to some serious Bible discussion? How come you have not posted ONE SINGLE biblical sign of regeneration as yet? That is what this thread is supposed to be about, not unregenerates.
You really found the perfect site for you, haven't you? Skip anything about God, just as long as you can join in or start another fight.

I've told you already, I'm not a teacher. I'm here to talk about God, learn about God, and encourage the Lord's peeps. You haven't even figured out what this meme is about yet, and still you're just itching to argue.

That's not my problem. That's your problem.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,798
549
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#20
...There was nothing un scriptural about that quote it is a fact. I mean before you knew him how different were you from who you are now? The reason such a change happens is because to our natural flesh and thinking most things about him contradict it
Yes the natural man is not the regenerated man. That is a given. But once again, the surest signs of regeneration are not what natural men hate but what saints do, starting with repentance. So genuine repentance is one of the surest signs of regeneration. What natural men love or hate is not the key issue.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).