The Tares

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Definition_Christ

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#21
I don't see the difference at all, you are either for God or against God there is no in between. If you are for God you aren't Satan's agent as you say. If you are for God you are a new creation in Christ Jesus. You are born again.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#22
The whole purpose of Jesus coming was to save that which was lost. He didn't come to save those who were already saved.
He also said those who aren't sick don't need a doctor. Jesus's mission was universal in dying for the sins of mankind, but specific in saving those who needed saving and who want to be saved. Enemies of satan are not lost in the sense of ignorant sheep having gone astray, they are lost in the sense of being wolves and never sheep to begin with. I didn't say they were already saved. What I did say is that some people may be on God's side to start with.

Tares are wolves in sheeps clothing. Wheat is sheep. Some sheep may be sick, maimed, or go astray. That doesn't mean they are wolves.


I don't see your point here. Are you trying to say that people can't change? What is the point of 2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Is that just there because it looks cool? Or does it really have meaning behind it?
You're only thinking about after salvation. What I'm talking about is what causes a person to become saved or not saved. Every persons heart is like soil. A certain type of seed is sown on that soil. Depending on how much the seed is watered will determine how much it grows. If bad seed is watered and kept well it will grow into a nice tare. Same with wheat and good seed. Yes, there's a point of no return I think. Not that a person can't, and all things are possible with God, - but that a person won't. Why don't some people get saved? - there's your answer. Jesus never said that the tares became wheat or anything - he said that at the harvest they get gathered and burnt. So until the harvest those tares aren't changing into wheat, once they're tares they're tares. That's why Jesus said "be careful how you listen", and make sure the soil you have is good soil.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#23
I don't see the difference at all, you are either for God or against God there is no in between. If you are for God you aren't Satan's agent as you say. If you are for God you are a new creation in Christ Jesus. You are born again.
That would be a very simplistic black and white assessment of what Jesus taught. Scripture teaches that there's different types of soil, there's different types of seed, there's different ways in which the seed grows up into either a tare or a wheat, and there's a harvest where tares get burnt and wheat gets saved.
That's why Paul didn't say to Elymas "repent and believe in Jesus and you will be saved", he said "you child of the devil,, will you not cease, to pervert the ways of the Lord?". Paul's aim was not to convert Elymas, but to stop him preventing others from being saved. Why? Because Elymas was a child of the devil and his fate was pretty much already sealed. Jesus came to save the lost, in the sense of lost sheep, not in the sense of wolves or goats.
 
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Definition_Christ

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#24
Right you are MahogonySnail :).. God bless ya.I see what you mean now, it makes sense.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#25
Glad you understand where I'm coming from now thanks for listening. I just want to say I dont' think this view is Calvinistic because a person has plenty of opportunity to decide whether they want to be a tare or a wheat it all happens when they're still empty soil and no seed has been planted yet (good or bad). Then there is always opportunity for soil to be dug up again and re-planted with good soil if the tare is still young. But I consider tares as scripture uses to be those too far gone to be saved, Jesus always said that tares are burnt, and never gave any indication they had a chance to repent. But I could be wrong I just can't find any scripture that clearly shows tares converting to wheat. The problem is tares can look like wheat and vice versa - I have read that a tare is a cheap imititation of wheat that can only be distinguished from a tare when it is fully grown. When it's fully grown it's probably too late to be re-grown as a wheat. The first instinctive reaction of the servants working in the field is to pluck up the tares. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit and vice versa, saying the same thing really. Sheep versus wolves/goats, bad trees versus good trees, tares versus wheat, it's all the same I think.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#26
Tares are not wheat that is weak or sunburnt or doesn't grow or flourish until later. Tares are children of the wicked one:
We were all children of the wicked one before we got saved. The difference between most sinners and tares are the tares look like wheat but produce no fruit. I am with D_C, Tares can be changed, if they repent and begin to produce good fruit.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#27
We were all children of the wicked one before we got saved. The difference between most sinners and tares are the tares look like wheat but produce no fruit. I am with D_C, Tares can be changed, if they repent and begin to produce good fruit.
Not strictly correct I don't think. Being under the power of the devil by virtue of human nature or the kingdom of this world doesn't mean you are the devil's child. Being a child of God implies committment to God, so being a child of the devil also implies committment to the devil. There's a third category who are people who are unsaved and haven't made any committment yet. They may simply be lost or sick sheep yet to be found. Tares really can't repent unless the devil's seed is dug up and soil dug up and replanted with God's seed. Scripture only ever says that tares get burnt, that's all they're good for.
But it's all a matter of interpretation and isn't that important really what you believe about this.
 
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Jul 6, 2009
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#28
Perhaps we're stretching the metaphor too thin here. The point of the parable is that the righteous and the wicked will 'grow together'--have to put up with each other--in the world until the end of time. That we can't separate good guys and bad guys this side of Judgment Day when the machines from Skynet invade.

The framework of the parable doesn't try answer whether bad guys can become good guys and vice versa.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#29
There are many in the church that have no idea that they are unsaved, and many others in the pulpit that unknowingly teach satanic lies to their parishaners. These are the tares, not only people knowingly and purposely committed to Satan
 
Jul 6, 2009
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#30
Right, because anyone who is mistaken is automatically of Satan.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#31
Right, because anyone who is mistaken is automatically of Satan.
Anyone who is not saved is part of the kingdom of darkness. Scripture tells us this much.

Colossians 1
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
 
Mar 11, 2009
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#32
I think the Church has forgotten that the tares are growing with us inside of the church. Many think we are just to accept everyone's confession of faith as if they are genuine. The fact is most of those inside of our churches who proclaim Christ are tares and not wheat and will be burned in the end with the unbelievers.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.



38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.







I say to the tares within the church, repent now for judgment is coming.
Peace be to you
Amen
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#33
Tares are not wheat that is weak or sunburnt or doesn't grow or flourish until later. Tares are children of the wicked one:




Judas Iscariot is one prime example of a tare. As compared to Peter, who despite Peter denying Christ three times, was still wheat. There was no hope for Judas, he would not and could not have ever became a wheat like the other disciples, although he appeared to be and was treated as such for a time.

Can you give any scripture that shows a tare converting to a wheat before being gathered and burnt?
Ac 16:27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.Ac 16:28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.Ac 16:29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,Ac 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?Ac 16:31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.Ac 16:32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.Ac 16:33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.


Mt 19:26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is imPOSSIBLE; but with God all things are POSSIBLE.
God can change a tare into wheat it did it for me
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#34
Watchman, I think you have missed the contents of these scriptures for this parable is speaking of a field that represents the world and not the Church and the harvest of this field, is the separation of good and evil, which to come. for this verse which I will give you, tells us to separate ourselves, so how does wheat separate itself from the tares you are reading too much into the parable, which can be just as bad as not seeing or hearing the point of a parable. it is simply telling us that God Is all powerful , but He has allowed some evil to remain with us that as in the world that evil will always be until the end times when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats

and to MahogonySnail, the calvinist, this verse will also add some light to the confusion that you preach,for why would God tell us the tares to become wheat. or even the wheat to separate itself from the evil if it were not possible. you are reading into this parable, your intrepetation of salvation. for if it is not possible for tares (evil) to be changed into wheat (good) why did Christ die on the Cross? there is none good no not one .
Mt 7:11If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
we are all tares until Christ takes over for us, this is the verse I hope will light the way of this parable for both you guys .

2co 6:17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye SEPARATE, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
come out from being evil and change, the Church is called out from the tares even though we are all in one field and the called out ones are to be the Church of the Living God. this parable is to warn the Church that there will always be evil and this is the way our Sovereign Jehova God would have it to be, until He Decides it is time to separate the two that the tares will no longer take away from the Good things that were intended fro the Wheat and that there are better days ahead for the wheat to fulfill it purpose
 
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C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#35
Oh we are almost into the 'dual seedline' theory now, is there a devil's seed that cannot be saved and they are the tares? Jesus says to the Pharisees that their father is the devil and the lusts of their father they will do, so I say yes, there is a devil's seed and they are not His sheep and they are not from God and they are still with us today.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#36
There are many in the church that have no idea that they are unsaved, and many others in the pulpit that unknowingly teach satanic lies to their parishaners. These are the tares, not only people knowingly and purposely committed to Satan
There are innocents who are under the power of darkness but not of their own fault. These Jesus came to bring into the light. There are also wilfull agents of satan who are deliberately working for the devil and are the devil's children. Find one verse where Jesus called someone not yet saved, but not exactly opposed to him either, a "devil's child".
 
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Jan 8, 2009
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#37
and to MahogonySnail, the calvinist, this verse will also add some light to the confusion that you preach,for why would God tell us the tares to become wheat. or even the wheat to separate itself from the evil if it were not possible. you are reading into this parable, your intrepetation of salvation. for if it is not possible for tares (evil) to be changed into wheat (good) why did Christ die on the Cross? there is none good no not one .
Mt 7:11If ye then, BEING EVIL, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
we are all tares until Christ takes over for us, this is the verse I hope will light the way of this parable for both you guys .

2co 6:17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye SEPARATE, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
come out from being evil and change, the Church is called out from the tares even though we are all in one field and the called out ones are to be the Church of the Living God. this parable is to warn the Church that there will always be evil and this is the way our Sovereign Jehova God would have it to be, until He Decides it is time to separate the two that the tares will no longer take away from the Good things that were intended fro the Wheat and that there are better days ahead for the wheat to fulfill it purpose

I don't see the words tares and wheat there, why add something into the bible that it doesn't say? What you said contradicts what Jesus said about leaving the tares and wheat grow together. Clearly, wheat is not to separate from tares.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#38
God can change a tare into wheat it did it for me
If you were converted you weren't a tare in the first place you were an unsaved ignorant person and lost sheep who God saved. If you were a tare you are basically saying your end is to be burnt. That's all tares are good for they're like weeds and weeds can't be turned into wheat.
 
M

motojojo

Guest
#39
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Just a ? what about all the people that say they are going up first, are they the tares?
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#40
I don't see the words tares and wheat there, why add something into the bible that it doesn't say? What you said contradicts what Jesus said about leaving the tares and wheat grow together. Clearly, wheat is not to separate from tares.
the save are to sperate themselves from evil as far as being in the same field ( world) no we are together ,
You are the one that is adding to the parable itself it is nothing about a salvation it it is about the saved ones having to live with the evil ones til harvest time. and this is a parable, a parable is an earthly thing descibing a spiritual thing. I said you were putting too much in it to start with by adding the calvinist veiw, there is nothing here about how they became wheat or how they became tares it is as I have stated before a simple fact that the good and the bad live together until God separates us at the end times
 
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