The Trinity Discussion

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bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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No they were separate persona in one Being.
No valiant, that's not "technically" correct either. They are two "distinct" persons in one being. There is a difference between the definition of the words "distinct" and separate. Now I know that some here are going to say, "What's the big deal?" So let me illustrate with the following example.

Picture a tricycle. The wheels on this tricycle are "distinct" from one another, but are still "TIED" to one another. The wheels are not "separate" from one another or the bike would not be able to move. The same idea can be explained another way found in a housing complex whee the apartments are all connected by the outside walls. They are certainly distince from one another, but they are NOT separate houses.

You see, wording is very important because the separate idea implies tritheism; three gods, and that undermines the credibility of Trinitarian theology. Now, I leaned this back in 2013 and believe it or not the guy who said all of this concluded by saying, and I quote, "Trinitarianism is a doctrine of the antichrist." He was a non-Trinitarian actually helping us out. Go figure! :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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Dagallen

Guest
you have a strange view of the Triune God
I did not say he was talking to himself but base on how some on here present their point of view, he was talking to a part of himself, which is foolish. The words and ways of the only true God was manifested through the Savor who was sent, by His Holy Spirit, one God, in addiction to one God, one Savior, I do believe that makes two not three., so simple that even a child can understand it, so why can't adults understand it because the whole world shall be deceived. 1. Again one true God who's words and ways was manifested by his Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ, that's two not three.
 
Jul 26, 2017
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We are on a Christian forum and you came with a heretic teaching here, saying that Jesus is not God, which contradicts not only the teaching of the Church for 2000 years, but also the Bible as proved to you many times.

And you say I am the one trying to destroy something here... ok, makes sense.

Maybe you can leave and get to your own people of the similar opinion as you have so that you will not be so "destroyed" by our arguments anymore.
That Church you speak of invented the trinity theory to suit Constantine, that part is history. History shows that Rome was a pagan Empire and Constantine was the leader of that Empire at the time, so there is little argument in your comment that the Bible, the Christian Bible, that is, confirms the pagan trinity.

That same Church with its trinity theory and its belief that tradition is above scripture, pushed the religious world into the "Dark Ages" and came out this end with hundreds of thousands suffering sexually molested people in its wake.

This is one Church that people have a right to condemn in the enlightened world we live in now.

There is no more torture racks, no burning at the stake, no inquisitions that sent the population to the torture chambers of the Church and this brings no more suffering from those that wish to seek the truth.

I am sorry, but it is true.
 
Jul 26, 2017
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No valiant, that's not "technically" correct either. They are two "distinct" persons in one being. There is a difference between the definition of the words "distinct" and separate. Now I know that some here are going to say, "What's the big deal?" So let me illustrate with the following example.

Picture a tricycle. The wheels on this tricycle are "distinct" from one another, but are still "TIED" to one another. The wheels are not "separate" from one another or the bike would not be able to move. The same idea can be explained another way found in a housing complex whee the apartments are all connected by the outside walls. They are certainly distince from one another, but they are NOT separate houses.

You see, wording is very important because the separate idea implies tritheism; three gods, and that undermines the credibility of Trinitarian theology. Now, I leaned this back in 2013 and believe it or not the guy who said all of this concluded by saying, and I quote, "Trinitarianism is a doctrine of the antichrist." He was a non-Trinitarian actually helping us out. Go figure! :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Please explain why your tricicle story again, I got a bit of a giggle going on that one. Why can't the three wheeler work if the wheels are separate form each other, which they are of course,

Town houses share connecting walls but are separate town houses.......You see, wording is very important when you are trying to invent some ridiculous statement.

Did God die? If God died what happened to the Triad? If God didn't die, was he fooling the world? There is record of what Jesus looked like, and he looked different in different circumstances. He had a different appearance after his death when he appeared to the disciples and he had another appearance when he ascended to the Heavenly Realm, given that he was created in the image of the invisible God, what does the Invisible God look like?

Bluto, the inventors of the trinity have spent almost 2000 years trying to explain the trinity, and can't, so what gives you the ego to try what they can't achieve, just admit it is a lie and move on, Old Mate.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
113
I did not say he was talking to himself but base on how some on here present their point of view, he was talking to a part of himself, which is foolish. The words and ways of the only true God was manifested through the Savor who was sent, by His Holy Spirit, one God, in addiction to one God, one Savior, I do believe that makes two not three., so simple that even a child can understand it, so why can't adults understand it because the whole world shall be deceived. 1. Again one true God who's words and ways was manifested by his Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ, that's two not three.
Well dagallen I consider myself an adult and I'm sure you do as well so maybe you can explain the following Scriptures? Isaiah 43:11, "I, even, I, am the Lord, And there IS NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME." Then you have at Luke 2:11, "for today in the city of David there has been born for you A SAVIOR, WHO IS CHRIST THE LORD."

Then there is Isaiah 44:6, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of host; I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." So let's compare this to what Jesus Christ said at Revelation 1:17, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last." At Revelation 1:8 a few verses above Jesus says the following, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come the Almighty."

How about one more starting with Isaiah 42:8, "I am the Lord, that is My name, I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY TO ANOTHER, Nor My praise to graven images." And again what Jesus said at John 17:5, "And now glorify Thou Me TOGETHER with Thyself, Father, with the glory I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS."

So dagallen, since were all adults around here and even a child can understand (according to you), and the God alone specifically says He alone is the Savior, He alone is the first and last and He alone will not share His glory with another, then who is Jesus Christ? Please explain that to me like I'm a ten year old? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
That Church you speak of invented the trinity theory to suit Constantine, that part is history. History shows that Rome was a pagan Empire and Constantine was the leader of that Empire at the time, so there is little argument in your comment that the Bible, the Christian Bible, that is, confirms the pagan trinity.

That same Church with its trinity theory and its belief that tradition is above scripture, pushed the religious world into the "Dark Ages" and came out this end with hundreds of thousands suffering sexually molested people in its wake.

This is one Church that people have a right to condemn in the enlightened world we live in now.

There is no more torture racks, no burning at the stake, no inquisitions that sent the population to the torture chambers of the Church and this brings no more suffering from those that wish to seek the truth.

I am sorry, but it is true.
History is very interesting, your post is very revealing and to the point of the intent of the trinity concept, I might add, the intent of the Constantine, was to conquer the Roman Empire, in order to do so, he had to conquer the people within the Empire by bringing the people under a belief system, that he might conquer the people, as he did conquer the Roman Empire, as the belief system has now gone world wide and is very popular in the world today, the trinity concept. Anyone who spoke against the belief system within Rome, were tortured to bring them into submission, that they might obey the will of the Constantine, the rule of Rome.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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That Church you speak of invented the trinity theory to suit Constantine, that part is history. History shows that Rome was a pagan Empire and Constantine was the leader of that Empire at the time, so there is little argument in your comment that the Bible, the Christian Bible, that is, confirms the pagan trinity.
This is a lie. The triune God was described in Scripture, and was taught by the early church long before Constantine. Even the term Trinitas was taught by Tertullian (c.200 ad),
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
History is very interesting, your post is very revealing and to the point of the intent of the trinity concept, I might add, the intent of the Constantine, was to conquer the Roman Empire, in order to do so, he had to conquer the people within the Empire by bringing the people under a belief system, that he might conquer the people, as he did conquer the Roman Empire, as the belief system has now gone world wide and is very popular in the world today, the trinity concept. Anyone who spoke against the belief system within Rome, were tortured to bring them into submission, that they might obey the will of the Constantine, the rule of Rome.
it is revealing. It shows that neither he nor you know church history. For example Tertullian described the Trinitas in 200 AD. And he got the idea from the Scriptures,
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
505
113
Please explain why your tricicle story again, I got a bit of a giggle going on that one. Why can't the three wheeler work if the wheels are separate form each other, which they are of course,

Town houses share connecting walls but are separate town houses.......You see, wording is very important when you are trying to invent some ridiculous statement.

Did God die? If God died what happened to the Triad? If God didn't die, was he fooling the world? There is record of what Jesus looked like, and he looked different in different circumstances. He had a different appearance after his death when he appeared to the disciples and he had another appearance when he ascended to the Heavenly Realm, given that he was created in the image of the invisible God, what does the Invisible God look like?

Bluto, the inventors of the trinity have spent almost 2000 years trying to explain the trinity, and can't, so what gives you the ego to try what they can't achieve, just admit it is a lie and move on, Old Mate.
I already explained it bronson, but here's what I'll do for you? I will give you the definition of the word separate. "forming or viewed as a unit APART OR BY ITSELF." If the tricycle's three wheels are by themselves the bike won't work. Distinct as an adjective: Means distinguished AS NOT BEING THE SAME. So as it realtes to the Trinity the three persons of the Godhead are not the same persons. What they have in common that is the same is their nature or essence.

You distinct from your mother and father as a person but what you have in common with them is your nature or essence which would be "human." You nature is what separates you from all that is not human. Finally, and again your showing your Biblical ignorance with the same old dumb question I've heard for over 54 years now. "Did God die, and if He's God how can God die?" :rolleys:

What does Acts 20:28 say? "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood or AT THE COST OF HIS OWN LIFE." And no, God cannot die but God becoming a man can die and He did in the person of Jesus Christ. Just read Philippians 2:3-11. And as a side not bronson, what would you say if I can prove the Trintiy is a Biblical teaching? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
This is a lie. The triune God was described in Scripture, and was taught by the early church long before Constantine. Even the term Trinitas was taught by Tertullian (c.200 ad),
And here comes Tertullian who was the first to use the word trinity, in which Tertullian was a Pagan follower but of course I had already brought up Tertullian, thanks for confirming my studies on Tertullian and his Pagan belief, in which he called the trinity.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,023
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And here comes Tertullian who was the first to use the word trinity, in which Tertullian was a Pagan follower but of course I had already brought up Tertullian, thanks for confirming my studies on Tertullian and his Pagan belief, in which he called the trinity.
Well dagallen, where is your proof that Tertullian was a Pagan? Give your source to prove your assertion? I'll give you source that says your wrong. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/tertullian/ and here's another one for your reading pleasure. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/see-how-these-christians-love/

You know, anybody can make a claim, but if you do you have to prove your claim. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
Well dagallen, where is your proof that Tertullian was a Pagan? Give your source to prove your assertion? I'll give you source that says your wrong. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/tertullian/ and here's another one for your reading pleasure. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/see-how-these-christians-love/

You know, anybody can make a claim, but if you do you have to prove your claim. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Tertullian was pagan who at some point stood up for Christians, as it was believed, at some point he was converted to Christianity, as he believed that making a choice to except Christianity was not a crime worthy of death, however while a pagan, the pagans have always had a trinity belief, as he clearly had a belief in the trinity concept as a pagan, if he was converted to Christianity, he still held his trinity belief. What happen, his pagan belief in the trinity concept and some of the Christian beliefs became one belief system of Rome, as the two belief systems intertwined with one another and became one. What you posted is nothing new for me.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
Well dagallen, where is your proof that Tertullian was a Pagan? Give your source to prove your assertion? I'll give you source that says your wrong. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/study/module/tertullian/ and here's another one for your reading pleasure. https://www.christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/see-how-these-christians-love/

You know, anybody can make a claim, but if you do you have to prove your claim. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Tertullian was pagan who at some point stood up for Christians, as it was believed, at some point he was converted to Christianity, as he believed that making a choice to except Christianity was not a crime worthy of death, however while a pagan, the pagans have always had a trinity belief, as he clearly had a belief in the trinity concept as a pagan, if he was converted to Christianity, he still held his trinity belief. What happen, his pagan belief in the trinity concept and some of the Christian beliefs became one belief system of Rome, as the two belief systems intertwined with one another and became one. What you posted is nothing new for me.
 
Jul 26, 2017
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it is revealing. It shows that neither he nor you know church history. For example Tertullian described the Trinitas in 200 AD. And he got the idea from the Scriptures,
According to The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, "Tertullian's trinity [is] not a triune God, but rather a triad or group of three, with God as the founding member"
 
Jul 26, 2017
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He was evidently by profession an advocate in the law-courts, and he shows a close acquaintance with the procedure and terms of Roman law, though it is doubtful whether he is to be identified with a jurist Tertullian who is cited in the Pandects. He knew Greek as well as Latin, and wrote works in Greek which have not come down to us. A pagan until middle life, he had shared the pagan prejudices against Christianity, and had indulged like others in shameful pleasures


Yes, a definitely good candidate for the Catholic Church of pagan Rome.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
According to The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, "Tertullian's trinity [is] not a triune God, but rather a triad or group of three, with God as the founding member"
Yes Tertullian trinity and the trinity of today are not the same, as Tertullian trinity did not come from scriptures.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
Nor does the trinity of today's churches.
I agree, the trinity concept is a man made concept, it is for some a way of explaining the Father, Son, Holy Spirit but the concept it's self does not come from scriptures and that's why the word trinity is not found in scriptures, it is also why it is not a required belief for salvation, according to scriptures, Christ did not teach of a trinity. If people want to use the trinity concept, so be it but no one should teach that it is in scriptures, that would be a false teaching. As different people explain God, Son, Holy Spirit in many different ways.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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That Church you speak of invented the trinity theory to suit Constantine, that part is history. History shows that Rome was a pagan Empire and Constantine was the leader of that Empire at the time, so there is little argument in your comment that the Bible, the Christian Bible, that is, confirms the pagan trinity.

That same Church with its trinity theory and its belief that tradition is above scripture, pushed the religious world into the "Dark Ages" and came out this end with hundreds of thousands suffering sexually molested people in its wake.

This is one Church that people have a right to condemn in the enlightened world we live in now.

There is no more torture racks, no burning at the stake, no inquisitions that sent the population to the torture chambers of the Church and this brings no more suffering from those that wish to seek the truth.

I am sorry, but it is true.
If it is in the Bible, it was not invented by Constantin.

Simple as that.

And, bad for you, it is in the Bible.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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If it is in the Bible, it was not invented by Constantin.

And, bad for you, it is in the Bible.
well in the bible God said He would raise [the horn of our adversaries],
and that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws".

In the seventh chapter of the book of Daniel is an amazing prophecy picturing for 2,500
years into the future, from the day it was written, the course of the Gentile kingdoms.

Starting with the ancient Chaldean Empire of Nebuchadnezzar, this prophecy foretells
the successive [world rule] of the Persian Empire, Alexander’s Greco-Macedonian
kingdom with its four divisions, and finally, of the mighty Roman Empire.

Out of the original Roman Empire, symbolized by 10 “horns” growing out of the head
of a “beast,” are pictured the 10 resurrections of the Roman Empire that have continued
since its fall to the present, and are scheduled to continue until the coming of Christ.

Among these 10 kingdoms which have ruled in the Western world since the fall of Rome
to the present, appeared another “little horn,” whose “look was more stout than his fellows.”
In other words, another government, actually smaller, yet dominating over all the others.

Students of prophecy recognize this “little horn” as a great religious hierarchy. And in the
25th verse of this prophecy, it is stated that this hierarchy shall “think to change times and laws.”
The last seven horns comprise a church-state relationship, the Holy- Roman empire.

How Time Was Changed

This same power is mentioned again in the 17th chapter of Revelation, here pictured
as ruling over the kings and kingdoms of the Earth, persecuting the true saints.

In every possible manner, this power has changed time!

God begins the days at sunset, but “the little horn” has changed it so the world now
begins the day in the middle of the night by a man-made watch.

God begins the week with the ending of the true Sabbath, the seventh day of the week,
but the world begins the working week in the middle of the night, the second day of the week.

God begins the months with the new moons, but this “little horn” has induced the world
to begin the months according to a clumsy man-made calendar of heathen origin.

-
Lamentations 2:17
The Lord hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had
commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath
caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.
 
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