The Trinity Doctrine in the Bible

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101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#61
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” (Genesis 1:26). The Hebrew word here for God is Elohim. It is a plural noun that is used more than 2,700 times in the Old Testament. This means that inspired authors preferred to use Elohim about 10 times more than the singular form “El” when they described God. Even in the Old Testament book of Daniel, we see a picture of the Father and the Son as two separate persons. “I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him” (Daniel 7:13). The Son of man, Jesus, is seen coming before the Ancient of Days—who is, obviously, God the Father.

So there is at least 2.
BINGO, at least 2 ... but not "PERSONS", you have at least that much correct.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But they are One.
ok, you got the ONE correct also, but not in persons, remember you said, in Eph 4:4, "There is one body, and one Spirit".
now is this ONE "Spirit" ... Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

now if the Christ.... the Son is a Spirit, and the Father is a Spirit, either it's the same one Spirit or you have two Separate "Spirits" and if it's the same Spirit, then the same PERSON.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

If the Holy Spirit is simply some divine force, then why is it even more offensive to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and even more fatal, than speaking against the Son?
one reason, 1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." I ask you is the Son of God flesh and blood? thank you, is the Holy Spirit flesh and blood? thank you, so without the Holy Spirit one cannot inherit
When it comes to the nature of God, it is beyond comprehension
nope, listen, Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

one can understand, it's in the bible, right at creation.

PICJAG,
101G
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#62
will, I see that verse in which the Lord Jesus referred to God as "HE", a single person, put a crimp in the trinity doctrine, as well as the Oneness doctrine as well.. for yes, "HE" in Matthew 19:4 is "GOD" a single person, "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
our brother Mark confirm this "he" as God. in the same setting, Mark records this, Mark 10:2 "And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him."
Mark 10:3 "And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?"
Mark 10:4 "And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away."
Mark 10:5 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept."
Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

BINGO, so the "he", a single person in Matthews 19:4 is "GOD"...... ONE PERSON. but remember God the ONE PERSON said .... "Let US".
now if never, we need the wisdom of God, so my fellows, you may go first in explaning how God is a "he", but also a "US"... :coffee:

PICJAG,
101G.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,717
1,199
113
#63
Perhaps this would help.
In the hebrew language when God's name appears followed by a verb it changes God to plural instead of singular.
So if you read the very first verse of Genesis it reads as followed.

In the beginning Gods created the heavens and the earth.
Which would make more sense into the reading of ....

Let us make man in our image and likeness.
 
Apr 21, 2021
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#64
This image contributes to the confusion of this concept. It also showcases the contradiction of the teaching with scripture. You cannot look at this image and claim that this does not illustrate 3 Distinct/Different/Separate entities ... which is heresy.

Christianity does not have THREE GODS. The Bible is very clear on the fact that there is ONE GOD. Many verses bear witness to this.

If the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are NOT eachother, but all have equal god-ness, then they are THREE gods.

There is no way around that and it is absolute Blasphemy.

The idea that the three persons of the Trinity are separate individuals is tritheism.

It is heresy. They can not be distinct (different) or else they are separate. There is no way around that.

And you cannot claim they are different ... separate ... AND the same. That is re-defining word definitions and saying 'because we said so' ... then insisting that ALL denominations believe and operate under that made-up belief.

And it WAS made-up. It was 'devised' (created/established) by the Roman Catholic Church between 100 and 325 A.D.

If you LOVE God and you LOVE The Truth, this SHOULD concern you.
 
Apr 21, 2021
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#65
Perhaps this would help.
In the hebrew language when God's name appears followed by a verb it changes God to plural instead of singular.
So if you read the very first verse of Genesis it reads as followed.

In the beginning Gods created the heavens and the earth.
Which would make more sense into the reading of ....

Let us make man in our image and likeness.
Some believe that God is referring to the angels who were clearly present at creation according to Job.

But it makes more sense that it is God referring to His Father/Son relationship according to John 1:1-4 and many other verses later in that book spoken by Jesus Himself.

Many Trinity defenders use these verses as proof of the Trinity claiming that their plural nature proves that God is THREE. As you can see, it doesn't follow logic when there is no mention at all of any 3rd member in any of those verses.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
61
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#66
Perhaps this would help.
In the hebrew language when God's name appears followed by a verb it changes God to plural instead of singular.
So if you read the very first verse of Genesis it reads as followed.

In the beginning Gods created the heavens and the earth.
Which would make more sense into the reading of ....

Let us make man in our image and likeness.
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem' is in ORDINALS designation of which was to come. that's why the Lord JESUS, the Son, the ORDINAL said that "he", the Ordinal First of himself MADE man male and female. simply put the ECHAD of God in dispensation of TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER as the term in Genesis 1:1 "BIGINNING", describ the ECHAD or the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem' of God, the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah).

But it makes more sense that it is God referring to His Father/Son relationship according to John 1:1-4 and many other verses later in that book spoken by Jesus Himself.
TRUE in the ECHAD... now, is the person in John 1:3 the same one Person who "MADE ALL THINGS" in Isaiah 44:24? .... YES.

if not, then you have two "CREATORS".

PICJAG,
101G.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,717
1,199
113
#67
Some believe that God is referring to the angels who were clearly present at creation according to Job.

But it makes more sense that it is God referring to His Father/Son relationship according to John 1:1-4 and many other verses later in that book spoken by Jesus Himself.

Many Trinity defenders use these verses as proof of the Trinity claiming that their plural nature proves that God is THREE. As you can see, it doesn't follow logic when there is no mention at all of any 3rd member in any of those verses.
In creation itself you have God, .....the spoken word (Jesus)..and the Holy Spirit hovering. All in union of creation.
 
Apr 21, 2021
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#68
If you study the Bible with the wrong mindset, you won't understand much. Don't read the Bible like a Jew/Muslim/Atheist/Pagan would read it. Read it like the martyrs did. You know, those who were praising joyfully the TRINITARIAN GOD when lions were attacking them.
See? You still don't even understand my entire position. I'm debating FOR the accuracy of Scripture. Does the Bible, which is God's Holy
Word, tell us that any martyrs were praising a Trinitarian god while being attacked by lions?

I don't have a problem with man-made words.
Well, that's part of the problem.

Isn't language man-made? Adam was given this freedom by God: the freedom to NAME things.
Who is The Word? (John 1:1-4) Who spoke the very first Word? (Gen. 1:3)

The very first language was Aramaic, an ancient form of Hebrew. It's the language that God spoke out loud in this world. It's the language God wrote the 10 Commandments with His own finger in stone on Mt. Sinai ... TWICE.

Words are extremely important ... and extremely powerful. They matter FAR more than most know.

What's next? A thread where you question the divinity of Christ?
Your anger is evident, but maybe that's a good thing. Clearly it's the first time you've considered these particular topics so deeply.

I'm only striving for the Truth of God's Word.

God bless you.
 
Apr 21, 2021
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#69
In creation itself you have God, .....the spoken word (Jesus)..and the Holy Spirit hovering. All in union of creation.
God IS spirit. (John 4:24) So if you look at it that way, ...

...you can erase the 'The Father' portion of this diagram and simply have the Son and The Holy Spirit.

OR, more accurately, you can erase the 'The Holy Spirit' portion and simply have the Father and the Son. Which is 100% accurate with scripture. Because the Holy Spirit IS the spirit of Jesus Christ and the Father.

"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone love Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make our home with him."(John 14:23)


"... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His."
(Romans 8:9)
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#70
In creation itself you have God, .....the spoken word (Jesus)..and the Holy Spirit hovering. All in union of creation.
the BIBLE never say that. lets see what the WORD of God do say, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

the NASB 1995 makes it very clear in God the LORD the Ordinal First was "ALL ALONE".
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

ALL in ALONE is inclusive, meaning that there was no as some say a Son, or as some say a Holy Ghost a second and third person in creation.... well the bible say NO.

I the LORD, "I" is a single person designation, so there is no other persons, so no trinity.

PICJAG,
101G.
 
Apr 21, 2021
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#71
And the point is that the Spirit is NOT a 3rd entity of God.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,882
2,723
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#72
if so please post book, chapter, and verse, that say this is the Father's voice? well....

see, just don't assume anything.

PICJAG,
101G.
I did John chapter one and also

Matthew 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Whose voice was it that spoke, a ventriloquist?

Luke 3:21 22

Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you, I am well pleased."

John 5:37

And the Father Himself, (Jesus is speaking) who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#73
I did John chapter one and also

Matthew 3:17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Whose voice was it that spoke, a ventriloquist?

Luke 3:21 22

Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you, I am well pleased."

John 5:37

And the Father Himself, (Jesus is speaking) who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
that was not the voice at the Lord Jesus baptism, so try again.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,542
7,660
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#74
So how do we teach this concept to a new inquisitive Christian who is interested in learning about it in their Bible?
1. The new Christian should be told that ultimately God in not comprehensible by man, because He is God. Therefore whatever He has shown in Scripture must be accepted in simple faith, not by reason.

2. Secondly the Bible is very clear that the one truly and living God (as opposed to all the false gods) has revealed Himself in Scripture are three divine Persons -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

3. The reality of the three Persons is most clearly seen in the baptism of Christ -- the Son (the Word) was baptized, while the Father spoke from Heaven and called Christ His beloved Son, in whom He was well-pleased. At the same time, the Holy Spirit took the form of a dove and rested (or lighted) upon Christ.

And Jesus, [THE SON] when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God [THE HOLY SPIRIT] descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, [OF THE FATHER] saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Mt 3:16,17)

If this is not sufficient for a new believer, then perhaps that person must ask himself whether he really is a believer. Christians simply accept this as God's truth. We should keep in mind that Matthew was not present at the baptism of Christ. So what he wrote down was a DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
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#75
Whose voice was it that spoke, a ventriloquist?
well since you cannot find a verse that say it was the "Fathers" voice, no, ... no, ventriloquist... let the bible teach you, listen and Learn, just becase a voice come from heaven do not mean it is the "Father's" voice, example, Genesis 22:10 "And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son."
Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I."
Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."

WAIT A MINUTE, "withheld thy son, thine only son from me." WITHELD FROM THE angel? NO, FROM GOD, BUT WHO WAS speaking FROM HEAVEN FOR GOD?

see, if the bible never tells you it was, THEN, DON'T ASSUME, meaning neither ADD or TAKE AWAY, from his WORD. that a violation. see you, as many automatic assume that it was the Father's voice by what was said. but the bible never said it was the Father's voice, not here at the Baptism of the Lord Jesus.

see, never assume anything, let the bible tell you just as in Genesis 22, the bible clearly tell us who spoke FROM HEAVEN. the angel. so let that be a lession to learn... ok.

this is how false doctrine is propagated, by saying what the bible did not say.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#76
If this is not sufficient for a new believer, then perhaps that person must ask himself whether he really is a believer. Christians simply accept this as God's truth. We should keep in mind that Matthew was not present at the baptism of Christ. So what he wrote down was a DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD.
well then you might want to read Post #75 above.

PICJAG,
101G.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,542
7,660
113
#77
well then you might want to read Post #75 above.
Are you disputing what is actually stated in the Bible? Then you really need to ask yourself if you are a true believer. I don't need to read anything to contradict what is plain and simple in Scripture.
 

Platosgal

Active member
Mar 17, 2020
277
181
43
#78
I have spent a great deal of thought on this subject. A comedian that is popular in some circles had cast doubt and spent whole pod casts in ridicule
Of the trinity AND the divinity of Jesus

I have been studing to be able to answer such a person or a young person being taught the absurdity if the trinity and linking our triune idea of God with pagans
That said I have an idea that
God the fatherr is a wholly unknowable being who at the begining had Jesus literallt IN him and with him in a way thay humans can not understand but he referances as his Only begotten son
The holy spirit is the literal breath of God and the Truth in all its truthfulness- All three are not human as we are - Jesus as the only 100 %holy person Put on human skin to save humanity from death -
 

101G

Banned
Apr 1, 2021
295
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#79
Are you disputing what is actually stated in the Bible? Then you really need to ask yourself if you are a true believer. I don't need to read anything to contradict what is plain and simple in Scripture.
Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

now where do it say this is the Father's voice?

the scripture only say, "A VOICE" ... and that's where you and anyone of us should leave it.

see, you added to the Word of God by saying it was the Father's voice, when in fact the verse never say that.

just say what the scriptures say, nothing more or nothing less.

PICJAG,
101G.
 
Mar 15, 2021
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#80
See? You still don't even understand my entire position. I'm debating FOR the accuracy of Scripture. Does the Bible, which is God's Holy
Word, tell us that any martyrs were praising a Trinitarian god while being attacked by lions?
No, the Bible doesn't tell us that "any martyrs.......by lions"
Other book gives testimony of their sacrifice: it's called the book of life.

My position is: I don't care to know your god. I care to know the martyrs' God (because they amaze me, not an anonymous SDA who pretends to be a genuine seeker of the truth but seeks to be right.)

It's not normal to sing and praise the Lord when a bunch of lions attack you, it's normal to **edited for foul language**!

I don't know of any other people who did such extraordinary things while praising the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Those who confess an Individual God and yell Allah Akbar in metro stations and parks full of children are murderers, not martyrs!

If I'm a Christian today, it is certainly not because someone presented me bible verses which specifically mentioned the word "trinity". It is because those Bible believing Christians (the martyrs) convinced me they were telling and knowing the TRUTH. And they 'happen' to confess the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I gave the example of the martyrs because I thought it was the most powerful evidence.
If you're unimpressed because of your heart of stone, you can go back and read the bible verses which the others have presented to you.

Your anger is evident, but maybe that's a good thing.
I'm not angry at all. I knew from the very beginning you weren't sincere. I recognize this kind of bait threads from a mile and I also KNOW that you already have your mind set on the issue, hence I am not interested in discussing with you.

Clearly it's the first time you've considered these particular topics so deeply.
Clearly.
It's good you came to shed some light in the night of my mind.

I'm only striving for the Truth of God's Word.
Yeah...you strive so much for the truth that you forgot to say you don't actually believe in the Holy Trinity. Instead, came here and pretended you wanted to understand.

Sorry. I only accept blessings from the Trinitarian God.
 
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