The virtues of sarcasm

[Definition_Christ]

Funny how everything's an integral of everything else.

I got to thinking about sarcasm, and I MAY have found an example, but... I'm not sure it's smart for me to post it.

Maybe it's okay to post it, and just not talk too much about it.

It seems to be saying either Jesus used sarcasm or He isn't God.

Matthew 19:17, tell me what you guys think.

Matthew 19 (The Complete Jewish Bible)
16 A man approached Yeshua and said, "Rabbi, what good thing should I do in order to have eternal life?" He said to him,
17 "Why are you asking me about good? There is One who is good! But if you want to obtain eternal life, observe the mitzvot."
18 The man asked him, "Which ones?" and Yeshua said, "Don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't give false testimony
19 honor father and mother and love your neighbor as yourself."
20 The young man said to him, "I have kept all these; where do I still fall short?"
21 Yeshua said to him, "If you are serious about reaching the goal, go and sell your possessions, give to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come, follow me!"
22 But when the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he was wealthy.


??????????

 

[loveallserveall]

Right.. so was he speaking literall, and actually rebuking the man for calling Him good?

Or was He using sarcasm ?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Statements can be true or false in their actual factual statements or in their perception. A lie is a unfactual statement perceived to be true. Sarcasm is an unfactual statement, perceived to be false, and therefore it is not a lie. A lie is intended to be misleading for evil purposes. Sarcasm is intended to lead someone to the truth, by stating a falsehood as if it were true, in the hope that the hearer can recognise the absurdity of the statement if it were indeed true. And there lies the difference. I don't know anyone who is led astray by sarcasm like a lie, unless that person doesn't speak english or have a brain and doesn't understand what sarcasm is.

As another example God used a bit of sarcasm I think when talking to Job:

Job 38:4 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding!


God said to job, were you there were you ? Do you have all the answers do you?

 

[Definition_Christ]

He didn't rebuke him..He was correcting him on his definition of good. He was saying look if you are going to call me good you must admit I am God.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Statements can be true or false in their actual factual statements or in their perception. A lie is a unfactual statement perceived to be true. Sarcasm is an unfactual statement, perceived to be false, and therefore it is not a lie. A lie is intended to be misleading for evil purposes. Sarcasm is intended to lead someone to the truth, by stating a falsehood as if it were true. And there lies the difference. I don't know anyone who is led astray by sarcasm like a lie, unless that person doesn't speak english or have a brain and doesn't understand what sarcasm is.

As another example God used a bit of sarcasm I think when talking to Job:

Job 38:4 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell if you have understanding!


God said to job, were you there were you ? Do you have all the answers do you?

Yeah God was being serious... I can think of another example... When God asked Cain where his brother was.. Do you think God really didn't know?
Adam sins and hides himself and God says "Adam, where are you?". Do you really think God didn't know?
The point is God asked questions so we should too. I highly doubt if we were praying about something, God would respond sarcastically.

 

[MahogonySnail]

God pretends not to know. Is that a lie? Of course not. I also doubt God would respond sarcastically, but then again it wouldn't surprise , because God's sense of humor is like a practical joke. His sarcasm would only ever be in a loving way.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Matthew 12:36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

Proverbs 17
27 He who has knowledge spares his words, And a man of understanding is of a calm spirit.
28 Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; When he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive.

Edit: ALSO...
Mat 5:37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

Hmmmm where is the justification of sarcasm there?

 

[MahogonySnail]

I hardly think God's sarcasm or engaging unbelivers to be idle words, Consider the context of Matt 12:36 - Jesus had just encountered them blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Still, some take it to mean you can't ever have a conversation about football *roll eyes*.

 

[Definition_Christ]

I hardly think God's sarcasm or engaging unbelivers to be idle words, Consider the context of Matt 12:36 - Jesus had just encountered them blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. Still, some take it to mean you can't ever have a conversation about football *roll eyes*.

And your explanation for the other two passages?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Proverbs - you don't need to shout to use sarcasm, even a quiet and peaceful man can use it. I can't see its relevance.

Mat 5:37 - think about the context, is that really talking about sarcasm? It's talking about making oaths and swearing as far as I know. Again not really relevant re: sarcasm.

The one you haven't quoted yet is where Paul said:

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


I believe sarcasm only comes under the category of foolish talking or jesting if they are improper or coarse or evil sarcasm.

Yet, some Christians interpret these to mean that all jokes are evil and we must not have a sense of humour.

 

[Graybeard]

...... When Jesus told them to eat his flesh, I take that to mean in a symbolic offensive way. Jesus meant them to leave him because they were following him for the fish and loaves. Catholics take it seriously, but in my opinion only, seem to miss the whole purpose and context of the situation and why Jesus said it.

Mahogany, which scripture are you referring to here?

 

[Definition_Christ]

When Jesus told them to eat his flesh, I take that to mean in a symbolic offensive way. Jesus meant them to leave him because they were following him for the fish and loaves. Catholics take it seriously, but in my opinion only, seem to miss the whole purpose and context of the situation and why Jesus said it.

John 5:63 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

Actually Jesus was being completely serious; He was referring to a blood covenant. Jesus never wanted anyone to not follow Him. He even asked His apostles if they wanted to leave because they didn't understand Him.

John 5:67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

You have to understand how a blood covenant works. First of all the life of the flesh is in the blood.

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood.....

Jesus said unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life in you. They thought Jesus was advocating cannibalism; that is why they left. But they just didn't understand what He meant. So symbolically if you drink somebodies blood you are taking their life inside of you. Jesus took our life inside of Him. That is what happens when a blood covenant is cut, both parties partake of the blood of the other party; they drink each other's life. He took our life on the Cross and in return we got His life.

So because we partake in the blood Covenant with God through Jesus it's no longer our life inside of us.. It's His life.

Col 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[Loves_to_Grin]

I simply follow up with Lev 19:17-18 in this matter.

 

[Marcus2x2]

I'm not sure if Jesus used sarcasm (I'd doubt it), I'd have to go through the Gospel's throughly to determine that. However what about the Apostle Paul?
2 Cornithians 11:19 "For you put up with fools gladly, since you yourselves are wise!"
One of my fav verses!

 

[Matthew]

ok, so what is sarcasm? I took the following from the free web dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sarcasm

sar·casm (särkzm)
n.
1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

I think the way sarcasm is used in everday life doesn't always match up with the definition, sarcasm can be used to be hurtful and sadly a lot of people do it because they know they can hide their nastiness behind a cover of good humour, but there can be other intentions behind it besides being cruel.

You know some people are great at telling jokes, others are more witty and some people are sarcastic, they can all be used as ways to be hurtful but none of those tyes of humour are inherently bad, it's not about the type of humor being used, it's more about the person using it.

I have always been sarcastic to one level or another but I never use it as a way to single someone out for ridicule, sarcasm can easily be used in a self-deprecating way and it can be all in good fun, there is a time and a place for it like with all humour.

It's just a way we can interact with eachother and it's down to each individual to make sure they use it in a good way, I don't know if Jesus would use it, but as long as we use it to be funny and not to be nasty I can't think what the problem would be.

 

[Maddog]

I see no reason why He wouldn't use sarcasm if He thought it would be the most effective way of getting His point across. Or just if He was having a laugh with his mates.

 

[MahogonySnail]

sometimes Jesus did use it to be funny, sometimes he used it to wound. If you were a disciple you probably would find it funny, if you were a pharisee, you might be offended by it. Put it this way, Jseus wasn't crucified by the Jews for being a nice guy, he was a thorn in their side, and offended them greatly both in what he said and sometimes how he said it.