The Word of Faith VS the Word of God

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Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,638
709
113
#1
Back in the day, I learned the hard way the difference between the Word of Faith doctrines versus the Word of God. This happened after I saw a Word of Faith teacher kill himself and over one hundred followers. If you want to read news accounts search for the Glory Barn Faith Assembly sect in northern Indiana.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Mark 11:24 (KJV 1900)

It was really that simple. Just pick out something, ask God for it, and believe you will receive it, and you will have it.

But sometimes you need to wait. The teacher had a clubfoot and twisted limb from polio. But he stood there wearing a built up shoe teaching that he’d been healed years ago when he asked for it. And if he’d prayed again asking the same, it would prove he didn’t believe the first time. Or if he’d gone to a Doctor for therapy, it would prove he didn’t believe when he asked the first time. God didn’t use Doctors. And since Paul said “whatever is not of faith is sin”, he would sin even considering going to a Doctor. And this eventually killed him with treatable gangrene, and over one hundred like-minded who died of easily treated illnesses or botched home deliveries using midwives, over a ten year period.

So what did Jesus mean when he said “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”? Mark 11:24

How I use this verse today. I know faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. I used to think it was of human origin. The same kind of faith you conjure up when buying a used car. And if you conjure it up when you pray, and don’t stop believing, God must honor his word and grant your wishes. This type of faith killed all of those people and sends many thinking they are saved to hell today.

But the truth is, faith is something God gives to us as a fruit of the Holy Spirit Galatians 5:22. And when present, we know God answered our prayer and we can expect an answer. If not present, we can recheck our motives and scripture support, and pray again. It is here the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that God will provide our needs.

But God uses medicine as in the Epistles when Paul no longer had the healing gifts. And he heals through the prayer of (Holy Spirit) faith. Many sicknesses are psychosomatic and go away when we stop the sin causing them.

The flesh loves and believes lies. And it was this type of faith that killed these people and drives the Word of Faith movement today.
 
Sep 3, 2016
4,791
428
83
#2
President Trump issued a warning and said to expect 100,000 to 240,000 deaths in America from coronavirus despite social distancing.

Question? How should a Believer Faith respond knowing that the death angel is coming?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,146
3,765
113
#3
I suppose I fall in the most vulnerable category in this plague.
At 75, this is what they keep reporting on the news here.

That said, I am not freaking out. I have somehow made some protecttive face masks, and I use natural filters in them. In over two weeks being locked-down, I have been out two times. The people here ae fantastic, keeping their distance, no hoarding or panic buying of foods and other necessites. There was an enormous amount of shoppers a shopping the very first day of the lock-down, but that is bcause their pantries were not well-stocke.

Frankly, I believe our Father knows exactly what H is doing, that is allowing, but I also believe all will be just fine for all who believe. Should any faithful be taken to Him inb this plague, it will only be because our Father wants to have them now. So, for us believing in Jesus-Yeshua, it is what some call a win-win situation.

Meanwhile we pray for all to have the great confidence of faith in our dear Savior.

May all here be well an dhave that peace which surpasses all understanding...love in our Salvation, Jesus-Yeshua.......j
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,638
709
113
#4
I view it as the Jews did on the first Passover. The death angel is bringing God's judgment and he tells us to self-isolate.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
6,003
6,540
113
#5
We know He is always working and that He is always healing, often not physically, as that may not be His will, but on this we can be assured, His spiritual healing is available for us all.

The greatest blessing He gives is always Himself. I do encourage prayer because He is the mountain that moves.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,638
709
113
#6
We know He is always working and that He is always healing, often not physically, as that may not be His will, but on this we can be assured, His spiritual healing is available for us all.

The greatest blessing He gives is always Himself. I do encourage prayer because He is the mountain that moves.
We can still pray the prayer of faith and be healed. But we must understand faith. What it is and what it is not. Most WoF people trust in their sinful flesh belief and do not have Holy Spirit faith.
 
Sep 3, 2016
4,791
428
83
#7
“17 And these signs shall follow them who believe (not these “sins” shall follow them who believe); In My Name shall they cast out devils (demons — Jesus defeated Satan, fallen angels, and all demon spirits at the Cross [Col. 2:14-15]); they shall speak with new tongues (baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking with other tongues [Acts 2:4]);

18 They shall take up serpents (put away demon spirits [Lk. 10:19] has nothing to do with reptiles); and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them (speaks of protection; in no way does it speak of purposely drinking poison, etc., in order to prove one’s faith; the word, “if,” speaks of accidental ingestion); they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover (means to do so “in the Name of Jesus” [Acts 5:12; 13:3; 14:3; 19:11; 28:8; I Tim. 4:14; II Tim. 1:6; Heb. 6:2; James 5:14]).

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, He was received up into Heaven (the Ascension), and sat on the Right Hand of God ([Heb. 1:3] signifying that the work of Redemption, was total and complete, i.e., “a finished work”)." Mark 16


“1 After these things the Word of the LORD came unto Abram in a Vision (this presents one of the four ways which God spoke to individuals in Old Testament times [Num. 12:6-8]: 1. He spoke in Visions [Amos 7:1]; 2. He spoke in dreams [Gen. 41:1; Dan. 2:1]; 3. He revealed Himself by speaking directly to the Prophets “mouth to mouth” [Num. 12:8]; and, 4. He spoke through His Word [Mat. 4:4]; [the time of the Gospels was still under Old Testament authority]), saying, Fear not, Abram (shows that fear had been present; he was afraid he would be killed by enemies before the great Promise of God could come to pass in his life, regarding a son being brought into the world, which was necessary as it regards the coming Incarnation of Christ): I am your shield (protection), and your exceeding great reward (the Lord was telling the Patriarch that he had his eyes too much on the Promise, instead of the Giver of the Promise; the Lord is to always be looked at as the reward, and then the Promise is sure to come; but too often we get our eyes on the gift instead of the Giver).” Genesis 15


We live the Resurrection Life by understanding that we have been planted together [Christ and ourselves] in the likeness of His Death [Rom.6:5]. The Holy Spirit delivers us unto the Death of Christ, which guarantees us the benefits of Calvary [Rom. 6:3-5]. We have victory by exercising Faith in the Cross, which guarantees us the Life of Christ [Gal. 2:20].

JSM
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,419
1,582
113
#8
President Trump issued a warning and said to expect 100,000 to 240,000 deaths in America from coronavirus despite social distancing.

Question? How should a Believer Faith respond knowing that the death angel is coming?
Is it a Angel or a virus?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#11
Back in the day, I learned the hard way the difference between the Word of Faith doctrines versus the Word of God. This happened after I saw a Word of Faith teacher kill himself and over one hundred followers. If you want to read news accounts search for the Glory Barn Faith Assembly sect in northern Indiana.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Mark 11:24 (KJV 1900)

It was really that simple. Just pick out something, ask God for it, and believe you will receive it, and you will have it.

But sometimes you need to wait. The teacher had a clubfoot and twisted limb from polio. But he stood there wearing a built up shoe teaching that he’d been healed years ago when he asked for it. And if he’d prayed again asking the same, it would prove he didn’t believe the first time. Or if he’d gone to a Doctor for therapy, it would prove he didn’t believe when he asked the first time. God didn’t use Doctors. And since Paul said “whatever is not of faith is sin”, he would sin even considering going to a Doctor. And this eventually killed him with treatable gangrene, and over one hundred like-minded who died of easily treated illnesses or botched home deliveries using midwives, over a ten year period.

So what did Jesus mean when he said “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”? Mark 11:24

How I use this verse today. I know faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. I used to think it was of human origin. The same kind of faith you conjure up when buying a used car. And if you conjure it up when you pray, and don’t stop believing, God must honor his word and grant your wishes. This type of faith killed all of those people and sends many thinking they are saved to hell today.

But the truth is, faith is something God gives to us as a fruit of the Holy Spirit Galatians 5:22. And when present, we know God answered our prayer and we can expect an answer. If not present, we can recheck our motives and scripture support, and pray again. It is here the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that God will provide our needs.

But God uses medicine as in the Epistles when Paul no longer had the healing gifts. And he heals through the prayer of (Holy Spirit) faith. Many sicknesses are psychosomatic and go away when we stop the sin causing them.

The flesh loves and believes lies. And it was this type of faith that killed these people and drives the Word of Faith movement today.

you really did make some bad choices, didn't you!

thankfully, we did not all get caught up in that vortex

musta been something in you that was attracted to that sort of thing?

and by the way, your experience does not equal everyone's experience

I will agree though, that scripture does not exactly teach 'word of faith' doctrine

but there is some faith in what we believe we will receive from God...our words do count...for example many self imposed curses

but folks don't like to think about that

as you were
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#12
I view it as the Jews did on the first Passover. The death angel is bringing God's judgment and he tells us to self-isolate.
baloney

sin has its own rewards

it gets a whole lot worse

God is merciful. while people run off in all directions, God still waits and His Spirit pleads with people

this is actually a great time to seek God...as the Bible states, seek Him while you can.

as it is, Christians are ALWAYS supposed to be prepared and it is not about gloom and doom either
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#13
We can still pray the prayer of faith and be healed. But we must understand faith. What it is and what it is not. Most WoF people trust in their sinful flesh belief and do not have Holy Spirit faith.
many what you call wofers are VERY sincere...for the record I am not one....and have been deceived

no different from the deception you are in...just the other side of the deception

one wants to please God with all that faith and the other wants to squash everything that it thinks has disappointed it

neither is right
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
475
97
28
#14
Back in the day, I learned the hard way the difference between the Word of Faith doctrines versus the Word of God. This happened after I saw a Word of Faith teacher kill himself and over one hundred followers. If you want to read news accounts search for the Glory Barn Faith Assembly sect in northern Indiana.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” Mark 11:24 (KJV 1900)

It was really that simple. Just pick out something, ask God for it, and believe you will receive it, and you will have it.

But sometimes you need to wait. The teacher had a clubfoot and twisted limb from polio. But he stood there wearing a built up shoe teaching that he’d been healed years ago when he asked for it. And if he’d prayed again asking the same, it would prove he didn’t believe the first time. Or if he’d gone to a Doctor for therapy, it would prove he didn’t believe when he asked the first time. God didn’t use Doctors. And since Paul said “whatever is not of faith is sin”, he would sin even considering going to a Doctor. And this eventually killed him with treatable gangrene, and over one hundred like-minded who died of easily treated illnesses or botched home deliveries using midwives, over a ten year period.

So what did Jesus mean when he said “Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.”? Mark 11:24

How I use this verse today. I know faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. I used to think it was of human origin. The same kind of faith you conjure up when buying a used car. And if you conjure it up when you pray, and don’t stop believing, God must honor his word and grant your wishes. This type of faith killed all of those people and sends many thinking they are saved to hell today.

But the truth is, faith is something God gives to us as a fruit of the Holy Spirit Galatians 5:22. And when present, we know God answered our prayer and we can expect an answer. If not present, we can recheck our motives and scripture support, and pray again. It is here the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that God will provide our needs.

But God uses medicine as in the Epistles when Paul no longer had the healing gifts. And he heals through the prayer of (Holy Spirit) faith. Many sicknesses are psychosomatic and go away when we stop the sin causing them.

The flesh loves and believes lies. And it was this type of faith that killed these people and drives the Word of Faith movement today.
That was a wacked out congregation.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,419
1,582
113
#15
And death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. Rev. 20:14
God, and God alone, is sovereign over the timing of our deaths. No angel or demon can in any sense cause our death before the time God has willed it to occur. According to Romans 6:23 and Revelation 20:11-15, death is separation, separation of our soul-spirit from our body (physical death) and, in the case of unbelievers, everlasting separation from God (eternal death). Death is something that occurs. Death is not an angel, a demon, a person, or any other being. Angels can cause death, and may be involved in what happens to us after death—but there is no such thing as the “angel of death.”
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,638
709
113
#16
God's four sore Judgments then and now. Note; pestilence = plagues.

Revelation 6
1. War (v. 1-2)
2 International strife (v. 3-4)
3. Famine (v. 5-6)
4. Pestilence (v. 7-8) = plagues
5. Persecution (v. 9-10
6. Earthquake; De-creation (v. 12-17)

Matthew 24
1. Wars (v. 6)
2. International strife (v. 7a)
3 Famines (v. 7b)
4. Earthquakes (v. 7c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13)
6. De-creation (v. 15-31)

Mark 13
1. Wars (v. 7)
2. International strife (v. 8a)
3. Earthquakes (v. 8b)
4. Famines (v.o 8c)
5. Persecutions (v. 9-13)
6. De-creation (v. 14-27)

Luke 21
1. Wars (v. 9)
2. International strife (v. 10)
3. Earthquakes (v. 11a)
4. Plagues and famines (v.11b)
5. Persecution (v. 12-19)
6. De-creation (v. 20-27)


David Chilton. (n.d.). THE DAYS OF VENGEANCE.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,090
4,379
113
#17
Question? How should a Believer Faith respond knowing that the death angel is coming?
KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON.

Back to the OP, the Word of Faith (WOF) Movement has been very harmful, but has caused many preachers to become very rich off the backs of poor, gullible, Christians. WOF also has many false doctrines.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,638
709
113
#18
That was a wacked out congregation.
It was, but hard to see until too late. Several Methodist pastors involved. Many people from mainline churches bored with their sleepy services. College kids from the 3 state area. People just like you and those you know.
 
Sep 3, 2016
4,791
428
83
#19
God, and God alone, is sovereign over the timing of our deaths. No angel or demon can in any sense cause our death before the time God has willed it to occur. According to Romans 6:23 and Revelation 20:11-15, death is separation, separation of our soul-spirit from our body (physical death) and, in the case of unbelievers, everlasting separation from God (eternal death). Death is something that occurs. Death is not an angel, a demon, a person, or any other being. Angels can cause death, and may be involved in what happens to us after death—but there is no such thing as the “angel of death.”
“23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. (The word “destroyer” implies the fact that the Lord sent an Angel to carry out this task. The only protection from judgment is the Cross of Christ.)” Exodus 12

My bible says that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy. Is Satan a angel?