There Is No Such Thing As the Age of Accountability

[Enow]

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I knit you together in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born I set you apart to be a prophet to the nations."

If you take an apple seed, and an orange seed, and look at them, you already know what they are. Before you plant them, and water runs through them to produce juice, you know whether it will be flavored apple juice or orange juice, and what their fruit will be like. In the same way, God knows whether a baby will be a righteous or unrighteousness person, if given the chance.

When speaking of children, the Bible says the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these- notice He didn't say all of these. Therefore, the same can be said of adults, or teens, or any age group- the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as those too, but not all of those.

Having said that though, yes there is an age of accountability- and that is when a child quits growing taller. Till then they are under the authority of their parents. The Bible says children don't know sin, and it also says even a child is known by his actions whether his conduct is pure and right. This sounds conflicting, but even as adults we are still learning about what is sin and what is not, and we are given a time to be corrected. In Revelation it says God gave Jezabelle time to change, and she would not change. But God foreknew that before she was created in the womb.

Therefore, the age of accountability is really only relevant to us. It's when a man knows to leave his father and mother and be united to his wife to start a family of his own.

The above is false. God would not send a child to the lake of fire before he/she even understands what sin is!

I did not addressed that side bar topic, but I agree with OneFaith's application of Jeremiah 1:5 and your application below of 1 Corinthians 7:12-14 that God foreknows whom will believe in Him from those that will not, and that a a believer can be saved with his or her household which now I understand as applying to children, BUT still parents should share the gospel and their faith in Him daily to their children and even infants.

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Acts 16:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?[SUP] 31 [/SUP]And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.[SUP] 32[/SUP]And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

I still say parents should be free to share the gospel to the little children and even infants and not wait for the age of accountability since it is on God to cause the increase.

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?[SUP] 6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.[SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Parents will have infant baptism done, but not preach the gospel to them yet, because an adult understanding is needed?

1 Corinthians 1:[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.[SUP] 18 [/SUP]For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?[SUP] 21 [/SUP]For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Mark 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

It is not funny how parents delight in telling lies about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and the children believes it, taking them at their word, but they wait until the age of accountability to share the gospel to them for the children to take Jesus at His word? Come on.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi DRI have a question...Is the sin of Adam imputed to all mankind,,,,OR only it's effects?I don't find a cohesive doctrine on this...

Hi Fran,


I haven't studied this and what the difference would be between the two. So what I say, I'm going by my limited knowledge of what it means of having Adam's sin imputed upon mankind.


I do think that when we talk about being in Adam as opposed to being in Christ, it defines the natural birth contrasting it with the spiritual birth. So in Adam, we're all born a natural man and because of that, we will sin and the wages of sin is death. Our nature to sin is that of Adam's nature to sin, we received it from him.


I believe we reap the consequences of Adam's sin because the wages of sin is death and we all die. But we are dying for our own sin and not for Adam's sin. Each one of us is accountable to God individually.


Adam birthed children in his fallen state and so the consequences of sin effects every human being because we all can trace our heritage back to Adam and Eve.


So I would say that we bear the effects of Adam's sin. His sin effected the fall of mankind. What is your understanding of Adam's sin imputed to all of mankind?

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi PH

I learned once that a person bleeds the least on the eighth day of life.
It was interesting to learn this.
Seems like God always gives good intructions!


P.S.
Baby cat is good.

Hi Fran,

I heard that too, but never looked into it until now.

We begin with the words of Ayala Abrahamov, M.D., Senior Professor of Pediatrics at the Faculty of Medicine at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, in her article “Problems with Blood Clotting and Bleeding in Newborns”:
“The system of blood clotting or coagulation depends on certain types of proteins, called platelets, which are produced by the liver. These materials, known by the Roman numerals I-XIII (1-13), work in sequence [together with various enzymes] until a stable clot called a fibrin is formed. In the first days after birth the liver is not yet developed enough to survive any surgical operations, which could cause massive bleeding and lead to the death of the newborn, whose body simply does not have the ability to stop the blood flow on its own. Physiologically, until the eighth day, the liver slowly develops, until on the eighth day itself, it is mature enough to fulfill its role to create the clots necessary to stop bleeding.”

The article also says: whereas, after the eighth day, the level of clotting material – prothrombin – in the blood reaches its lifetime average of 100%. However, just before the eighth day, the amount of blood clotting material increases rapidly, until on the eighth day itself, it is 110% of the norm!

How cool is that?!

 

[kaylagrl]

The above is false. God would not send a child to the lake of fire before he/she even understands what sin is!

"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

​ Excellent post as usual brother!

 

[kaylagrl]

Hi DR

You're right about the Bar Mitzvah and the age of 13.

I have a question...

Is the sin of Adam imputed to all mankind,,,,
OR only it's effects?

I don't find a cohesive doctrine on this...

I think its the effects since the Bible says that each person answers for their own sin.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is the sin of Adam imputed to all mankind,,,,
OR only it's effects?

I don't find a cohesive doctrine on this...

As mentioned by another poster, it is only the effects of Adam's disobedience that have corrupted the human race. God does not impute anyone's sin to someone else. On the other hand God imputes the righteousness of Christ to all who believe on Him, since Christ within become our righteousness -- "Christ in you, the hope of glory".

 

[Denadii]

according to the Law given through Moses, why are males not circumcised until the 8th day?

Before the eighth day the blood does not clot.

 

[Enow]

Does any one believe that you are to wait until children are the age of 21 before preaching the gospel to them?

Mark 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So is any one heeding Jesus's call to let the little children come to Him or not, because The Father is able to reveal His Son to even the babes?

 

[kaylagrl]

Does any one believe that you are to wait until children are the age of 21 before preaching the gospel to them?

Mark 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So is any one heeding Jesus's call to let the little children come to Him or not, because The Father is able to reveal His Son to even the babes?

No,babies are not held accountable for sin. They are not developed enough to understand.It makes no sense at all. Thats why evangelicals do not baptize babies.

 

[Denadii]

Does any one believe that you are to wait until children are the age of 21 before preaching the gospel to them?

Mark 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So is any one heeding Jesus's call to let the little children come to Him or not, because The Father is able to reveal His Son to even the babes?

I know people who have shared Gods Word to children still in the womb. It does good wherever and whenever it's sown

 

[jb]

...but we were all born into sin.

Psalm 51:[SUP]5...[/SUP] and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Were it not for doctrinal bias we should understand from this verse that it was his mother who was in sin at his conception, not David.

Suppose the verse read "in bitterness, or joy, did my mother conceive me!" we should unhesitatingly refer the bitterness or joy to his mother not to David, as is grammatically correct: "in sin" is an adverbial phrase qualifying the verb, not the object.

Children are NOT born in sin, but are born spiritually alive to God and pure in soul, so that if they die they go immediately into God's Presence in Paradise in Heaven! Matt 19v14, Rom 5v15, 5v13, 7v9.

I suggest you go back to school and learn basic grammar!

 

[FranC]

Hi Fran,


I haven't studied this and what the difference would be between the two. So what I say, I'm going by my limited knowledge of what it means of having Adam's sin imputed upon mankind.


I do think that when we talk about being in Adam as opposed to being in Christ, it defines the natural birth contrasting it with the spiritual birth. So in Adam, we're all born a natural man and because of that, we will sin and the wages of sin is death. Our nature to sin is that of Adam's nature to sin, we received it from him.


I believe we reap the consequences of Adam's sin because the wages of sin is death and we all die. But we are dying for our own sin and not for Adam's sin. Each one of us is accountable to God individually.


Adam birthed children in his fallen state and so the consequences of sin effects every human being because we all can trace our heritage back to Adam and Eve.


So I would say that we bear the effects of Adam's sin. His sin effected the fall of mankind. What is your understanding of Adam's sin imputed to all of mankind?

Hi DR

Yes. I do agree and so do some other posters here.

Someone even asked Jesus about this. I'm not at home and do not have a bible, but Jesus said that the father's sin did not affect the sick man.

We have the sin nature because of Adam, and we have lost all the preternatural gifts God had given to Adam and Eve.
We tend toward sin, we get sick, we die, we are cut off from our original relationship with God, we have trouble getting along with other humans, and we do not respect nature.

When we are born again, we get back our relationship with God, and we're once again in tune and in agreement with His ways.
We still will sin and get sick and die and have other problems because of a sinful world, but we have back our "God spirit" and can walk with Him.

I believe God is a LOVING God and is also a JUST God. He will not impute another's sin onto us.

So I agree with all you've said and I'm happy to read that others do too.
So this settles it for this question. I no longer have any doubts!

It is the EFFECT of sin that is passed on to us from Adam
NOT His sin.

 

[FranC]

Were it not for doctrinal bias we should understand from this verse that it was his mother who was in sin at his conception, not David.

Suppose the verse read "in bitterness, or joy, did my mother conceive me!" we should unhesitatingly refer the bitterness or joy to his mother not to David, as is grammatically correct: "in sin" is an adverbial phrase qualifying the verb, not the object.

Children are NOT born in sin, but are born spiritually alive to God and pure in soul, so that if they die they go immediately into God's Presence in Paradise in Heaven! Matt 19v14, Rom 5v15, 5v13, 7v9.

I suggest you go back to school and learn basic grammar!

Your grammar is correct, I'm happy to say !!

However, how do you suppose that children are born good?

When do they become "bad"?

Every church I know of (I don't know them all, LOL) teaches that we are born with the sin nature, or the sinful nature.
THIS is why it's necessary to be born again...

To AGAIN be made right with God. To again be able to have our original relationship restored (the Garden).

If we were born "good", why would we need to be born again??

 

[Enow]

No,babies are not held accountable for sin. They are not developed enough to understand.It makes no sense at all. Thats why evangelicals do not baptize babies.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

If it is the Father that reveals His Son to even the babies as I believe Jesus testified of that in Matthew 11:25-27, and our believing is not done by the persuasion of a man's speech, but by the Spirit's power, and this wisdom can be hidden from the prudent & wisdom of this world, where does human comprehension comes in?

I can remember being a baby... there are some memories that I understood what was being said to me.... I could not respond verbally in kind, but I could display my reactions.

So it is an assumption to believe that babies do not comprehend nor understand, because they do. And yet it is on the Father to draw even the babes unto the Son to reveal His Son to them.

Regardless of there being an age of accountability, Jesus said to suffer the little children to come unto Him, and so babies are a captive audience for christian lullabies and your testimony of your faith in Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 22:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

I shall pray to the Father to reveal His Son to even those that shall receive Him in the womb so that when the rapture comes, they shall be received by Him. It is not a vain prayer, but a good one. It certainly will not hurt.

No parent should use the age of accountability that exists as an excuse nor as a valid reason not to share the gospel even unto the babes.

 

[Enow]

I know people who have shared Gods Word to children still in the womb. It does good wherever and whenever it's sown

1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?[SUP] 6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Yes, since it is on God to cause the increase....

Mark 16:15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Colossians 1:[SUP]20 [/SUP]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled[SUP] 22 [/SUP]In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:[SUP] 23 [/SUP]If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

There really is no excuse to use the age of accountability to NOT preach the gospel to any creature under the heavens.

 

[Enow]

Were it not for doctrinal bias we should understand from this verse that it was his mother who was in sin at his conception, not David.

Suppose the verse read "in bitterness, or joy, did my mother conceive me!" we should unhesitatingly refer the bitterness or joy to his mother not to David, as is grammatically correct: "in sin" is an adverbial phrase qualifying the verb, not the object.

Children are NOT born in sin, but are born spiritually alive to God and pure in soul, so that if they die they go immediately into God's Presence in Paradise in Heaven! Matt 19v14, Rom 5v15, 5v13, 7v9.

I suggest you go back to school and learn basic grammar!

Really? Insults is going to win an argument? How about going back to school and learn proper manners? As you judge..you shall be judged.

If you want to correct me by grammar, then I shall correct you by reading that verse in context.

Psalm 51:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Reads to me that children are born in sin. That is why by sin, death comes to even newborns.

Is there an age of accountability? Apparently there is, in according to MessageOfTheCross, and I stand corrected by those scripture he had given, BUT it is written that Jesus was displeased when His disciples tried to prevent little children to come to Him, and so I correct my stance on the age of accountability but not the point of the OP and that is, no parent should use that age of accountability in preventing little children from coming to & believing in Jesus Christ by not sharing the gospel unto them when all they can do is trust Jesus at His Word.

That is all any of us can do and indeed, suppose to do when hearing the gospel; trust Jesus Christ at His word that by believing in Him, we shall be saved.

 

[Enow]

Children are NOT born in sin, but are born spiritually alive to God and pure in soul, so that if they die they go immediately into God's Presence in Paradise in Heaven! Matt 19v14, Rom 5v15, 5v13, 7v9.

Matthew 19:[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

And yet Jesus said to suffer the little children to come unto Him anyway.

Romans 5:[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Not the meaning for what you are applying that to mean when death comes by sin, and babies do die, even stillborn.

Romans 5:[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

So the offence of Adam... many babies die and are still born.

Romans 7:[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

That is just a testimony to how our sinful state is manifested by the deeds of the law. Gentiles were not under Judaism, but they still sin in the eyes of the Lord and they still die as a result of having been born in sin.

The MessageOfTheCross post and OneFaith's post gives scripture that proves there is an age of accountability and how a believer's household including newborns...are made holy and can come into the Lord's Presence after the little ones die.

That being said, Jesus told us to suffer the little children to come unto Him and forbid them not ( Mark 10:13-15 ) and since it is on God the Father to reveal His Son to even the babes, no one should be using the age of accountability as a reason to NOT preach the gospel even to the babes. Indeed, a mother can pray that the Father will reveal His Son to the unborn child for nothing is impossible with God.

 

[jb]

Your grammar is correct, I'm happy to say !!

However, how do you suppose that children are born good?

When do they become "bad"?

Every church I know of (I don't know them all, LOL) teaches that we are born with the sin nature, or the sinful nature.
THIS is why it's necessary to be born again...

To AGAIN be made right with God. To again be able to have our original relationship restored (the Garden).

If we were born "good", why would we need to be born again??

Isaiah 53v6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

The Scriptures plainly teach that we are NOT "born astray" BUT "GO astray"" i.e., the operation of free will! Ezek 18 (all)

Every human (except the Lord Jesus) has gone astray by free choice, hence "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Rom 3v23

The effect of Adam's sin is felt in the flesh (Rom 7v18) which every human receives from the parents, the soul and spirit which are made by God at conception are pure, so that a child is born spiritually aliove to God and pure in soul. Num 16v22, Eccl 12v7, Isaiah 57v16, 1Thess 5v23.

The doctrine of "Original Sin" and "born in sin" theories, came into the church through Augustine, they were not believed by the early Church.

You can find a bit of a study Here on it...

 

[Enow]

Isaiah 53v6: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

The Scriptures plainly teach that we are NOT "born astray" BUT "GO astray"" i.e., the operation of free will! Ezek 18 (all)

Ezekiel 18:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die......[SUP]14 [/SUP]Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,....[SUP]17 [/SUP]That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live..

Which is to say that a son shall surely die if he does the sins of the father.

Scripture does testify that the wicked can go astray from the womb, speaking lies.

Psalm 58:3The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Not sure how the age of accountability and the age of innocence can apply here, but the issue of born in sin is real since babies do die as a result of sin being passed on to generations. Indeed, the verse you only quoted in part testify to the child shapened in iniquity and and thus in sin do mothers conceive us cannot be applied to the mother when that verse shows the sin has affects on the child.... which is why the wicked go astray from the womb as soon as they be born.

Psalm 51:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Every human (except the Lord Jesus) has gone astray by free choice, hence "all hav

e sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Rom 3v23

That statement is yet to be proven because that verse can confirm that children are born in sin when all have sinned.

The effect of Adam's sin is felt in the flesh (Rom 7v18) which every human receives from the parents, the soul and spirit which are made by God at conception are pure, so that a child is born spiritually aliove to God and pure in soul. Num 16v22, Eccl 12v7, Isaiah 57v16, 1Thess 5v23.

Numbers 16:[SUP]22 [/SUP]And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

That has nothing to do with what you are saying that the soul & spirit of the child is pure and born spiritually alive to God. It merely states that the sins of one man shall not be executed upon the congregation. The same can be said for the sins of the father in his life will have his punishments shared on the children.

Deuteronomy 24:16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

That is indicative that the age of accountability should be held in question as applied by MessageOfTheCross.

Ecclesiastes 12:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

That does not testify that children's souls are pure and returning to God when this includes every body, including sinners. It merely states that God is the God of every soul and as scripture elsewhere testify, each soul shall be judged by God.

Isaiah 57:[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

I do see how Isaiah 57:16 applies to your statement that the souls of children are pure and born spiritually alive because then they fail before Him....but I believe it is a wrong application of that scripture to infer that, especially when the wicked can go astray from the womb, speaking lies, thus denying the reality of being born in sin as well as shapened in iniquity while in the womb and not just conceived in sin within the mother's womb. Psalm 51 was written by David about when Nathan had confronted him after having gone in to Bathsheba. This was certainly not testifying to David's mother conceiving David in sin by her sin as if she had committed adultery or whatever, but about the sin carried over from Adam to explain David's sinful nature and his need for the Lord's forgiveness and help.

Psalm 51:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.[SUP] 10 [/SUP]Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That is hardly applicable for what you are trying to say about all children's souls are pure and born spiritually alive to God when this is referring to ALL believers in Jesus Christ.

The doctrine of "Original Sin" and "born in sin" theories, came into the church through Augustine, they were not believed by the early Church.

Whether church history can confirm such professed doctrine or not before Augustine or not, scripture says otherwise.

You can find a bit of a study Here on it...

I am sure commentaries and applications of men's can make the scripture say what they want at the expense of other scriptures.... BUT....

OneFaith's scripture is the only one that gives hope for the children of mixed marriages where one is a believer and the other is not.

1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

So that is indicative that children are unclean when both spouses are unbelievers, but certainly testify that the children are holy when both parents are believers.

I admit that I am at a loss for MessageOfTheCross use of scripture for the age of accountability when scripture does testify to the death of children due to the sins of the children as the father will not be put to death for the sins of the children.

The scripture given by MessageOfTheCross was about a time when God was judging the unbelief of the people of Israel for not going into the promised land wherein they were judged to wander the wilderness for 40 years until those people that rebelled, had died out.

Now his use of scripture for the age of accountability is that every "child" under the age of 20 was allowed in without having to give an offering. I do not understand this when surely, after having been in the wilderness for 40 years, there would be some generations 40 years old that would be allowed to go in from out of that generations that had rebelled.

I need more study on this as well as discernment, but surely scripture does testify when Israel became a nation that children were put to death for their own sins.

Deuteronomy 24:16The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Which is why it is better to preach the gospel to the little ones so they can come to Him & believe in Him to be saved. Why put it off when it is the Father that reveals His Son to even babes so they can believe in Him?

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP] 27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

I believe His words that God teh Father is able to reveal His Son even to the babes.. so there is no just reason to wait and even more just cause to share the gospel to the little ones. Even lullabyes can be a means to preach the gospel.

Proverbs 22:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

 

[jb]

Scripture does testify that the wicked can go astray from the womb, speaking lies.

Psalm 58:3The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Trying to use this Scripture in an attempt to somehow prove Original Sin and born in sin theories is really lame! lol

The Psalmist is here speaking in ahighly poetic vein—even the "wickedest" little child must wait for afew years before it knows the difference between right and wrong and begins deliberately to tell lies! (Isa. 7,15-16)—and is contrasting those, who seem to delight in evil from an early age, with those who on the contrary like Samuel, David, and John the Baptist, so far from going astray from the womb, were filled with the Holy Ghost and spake the words of God to all Israel.