Thief on the Cross

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
994
350
63
#1
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
15,541
2,565
113
#2
If you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God you will be saved. The thief on the cross expressed his belief in Jesus Christ……………..
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
17,552
4,936
113
53
#3
In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blasphemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blaspheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#4
Well Jesus has a tool box like His Father and uses any tool in it as He pleases.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,925
288
83
#5
The thief accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior when he said, Lord remember me when you come in to your kingdom.

The thief could not be baptized for he was on the cross, so baptism could be bypassed.

Also Jesus did not die and shed His blood yet, but yet the thief was saved when he accepted Jesus on the cross.

Jesus had many people that followed Him, and I am sure some died before Jesus shed His blood, but they are all saved, for it would not make sense that they should perish seeing they could not stop themselves from dying.

Also the Old Testament saints are saved without Jesus shedding His blood, for when Jesus shed His blood then they were saved, like anybody that followed Jesus, and then died before He shed His blood is saved.

John the Baptist had the Spirit from the womb, which is why Jesus said, among those born of women there has not arose a greater than John the Baptist, and that includes Mary, but he that is the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John.

Which means that John was not saved during his lifetime, and did not receive the Spirit from the womb to save him, but to give him power to live a right lifestyle, and to prepare the way for the Lord in the future.

John the Baptist was not saved during his lifetime, and none greater than him that had the Spirit from the womb, so of course he is saved before Jesus shed His blood, and then when Jesus shed His blood then John was saved.

The thief was saved without having to be water baptized, for when Jesus shed His blood then the thief was saved.

If there was more the thief should do to be saved he did all he could do in the circumstance he was in, so if there was anything else it does not apply in his situation.

But those in the book of Acts that were baptized unto John's baptism has to be baptized in the name of Jesus.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
3,158
3,597
113
#6
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
I believe it comes down to this...

It is a sincere heart condition that He looks at, regardless when we choose to believe and accept the softened heart for Him given.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
8,044
1,698
113
#7
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
The thief on the cross was born from above, thus his many revelations of Christ and spiritual understanding are witnessed in his words.

Salvation has always been by grace, never by works.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
8,044
1,698
113
#8
I believe it comes down to this...

It is a sincere heart condition that He looks at, regardless when we choose to believe and accept the softened heart for Him given.
I always wonder why we take comfort in that God looks at the heart. It presumes we believe we are good, that our hearts are good, and boasts that God sees us this way as sincere. Ever think of this?

It is in reality not a comforting thought knowing our own hearts post-conversion and pre-conversion. We were under wrath pre-conversion; Ephesians 2:3.

Where did this sincere heart commence seeing none in the flesh (unregenerate man) are pleasing to God; Romans 8:8?

How is it that a darkened heart, incapable of coming to him (John 6:65 "cannot" means "unable" and let us not turn from him due to this truth as those in the next verse!) "believes" then gets a new sincere heart for their efforts?

We were quickened while we were dead; Ephesians 2, not quickened because we came alive through sincerity to accept a new heart. Nowhere is this found in Scripture or eternal salvation becomes a reward not a gift.

Isn't evidence of conversion the new heart and belief and not the cause? 1 Peter 1:3?

Bottom line, we don't have sincere hearts prior to conversion.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
24,713
2,280
113
#9
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

I can't help but thing there is a whole lot of Legalism in your OP.......

BTW ONLY ONE THIEF died on one of those 3 crosses that day. If you are keeping score:

1 - thief

1 - new convert

1 - Lord and Savior
 

marinerscatch

Active member
Nov 23, 2018
114
31
28
#10
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”



No, I do not wonder about it because God was on the "cross" and made the thief a guarantee. I am all about the guarantees of God. It's why I chose to be a follower to begin with. I had a guarantee to be with Yeshua forever!!
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
534
113
#11
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
No, not once have I wondered.
The thief openly said to our Lord he knew who he was, and demonstrated faith in him when the thief asked Jesus to remember him in paradise.
He entered into the covenant as we are all told is simple enough. By faith.
God chose us in his son, in the covenant of grace, before he created this world where his adversary prowls like unto a hungry lion and seeking souls to devour. We come to faith , our consciousness arrives at re-cognizing we are within and of God, as are all things created of, by, and for his purpose, will, and glory.

The thief to the other side of Jesus was not called and remained obstinate as he mocked Christ and his compatriot on the other cross. It is a three fold proof of salvation, belief, and disbelief and what transpires. Flesh to the ground from whence it came , while the soul given by God returns to the creator from whence it came. The other thief? Is the dead that know nothing. And yet, all came from God and so unto God all doth return. There can be no other place than the one from whence all things were created to be and not to be.
 

GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
311
83
#12
The thief had the same God given faith that is given to all believers.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [a]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
314
123
43
#13
Hey! Y'all... PTL!
Where scripture tells us that there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism... imo, refers to this as the one baptism:
1 Cor 12: 13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

1 Cor 15: 29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
I suspect that this is referring to a proxy baptism, performed on behalf of those who were martyred before they could be baptized with water.
Maranatha!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
6,739
2,806
113
#14
I believe The thief went to the good side of Hades. That is also where I believe Jesus went during His 3 days in the Tomb.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
1,673
391
83
#15
Jesus saves. He saves now and he saved back then. He has the power.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
39,636
11,786
113
#16
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

The New Testament rebirth requirements began after Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection and ascension into the heavens. We know this because on the day that the church was born, Peter stated that we must repent, be water baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost in order to be saved. The Holy Ghost was not sent until after Jesus ascended back into Heaven and poured His blood upon the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:11-12) After Jesus entered the Holy of Holies in the Heavenlies, the Holy Ghost (gift of the Holy Ghost) was then poured out upon the people present on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:3-4)

When did the New Covenant officially begin? We know from scripture that John the Baptist’s ministry was to prepare the way of the Lord. He was referred to as the Baptist, because in addition to proclaiming the coming of the Lord, his ministry was to initiate the concept of water baptism. Water baptism was necessary for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) However, sins could not be remitted without the shedding of blood. After Jesus’ blood was shed it had to be poured onto the mercy seat. This had not taken place prior to John’s ministry.

Jesus appeared after His resurrection and fulfilling the mission as our high priest, returned for a period of 40 days and then ascended back into Heaven. The New Testament church had officially begun. After this occurred, individuals who had been baptized by John were commanded to be re-baptized in Jesus name. (Acts 19:2-6)

Keep in mind that a Will and Testament becomes valid only after one’s death. This being said, you may wonder what the thief’s covenantal responsibility would entail. The Old Testament was still in effect at the time of the thief’s death.

Each person, including the thief on the cross, that perished before Jesus entered into the holy place and obtained eternal redemption for mankind, was judged by the Old Testament mandates. The obligation to God then was to have faith in the coming Messiah and to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:10 states, “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised... He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

The New Testament parallel of the Old Testament circumcision is found in Colossians Chapter 2: “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
No, because salvation is by grace through faith with no religious hoops, works, sacraments, etc. required.....
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
3,158
3,597
113
#17
I always wonder why we take comfort in that God looks at the heart. It presumes we believe we are good, that our hearts are good, and boasts that God sees us this way as sincere. Ever think of this?

It is in reality not a comforting thought knowing our own hearts post-conversion and pre-conversion. We were under wrath pre-conversion; Ephesians 2:3.

Where did this sincere heart commence seeing none in the flesh (unregenerate man) are pleasing to God; Romans 8:8?

How is it that a darkened heart, incapable of coming to him (John 6:65 "cannot" means "unable" and let us not turn from him due to this truth as those in the next verse!) "believes" then gets a new sincere heart for their efforts?

We were quickened while we were dead; Ephesians 2, not quickened because we came alive through sincerity to accept a new heart. Nowhere is this found in Scripture or eternal salvation becomes a reward not a gift.

Isn't evidence of conversion the new heart and belief and not the cause? 1 Peter 1:3?

Bottom line, we don't have sincere hearts prior to conversion.
But that is my point, I couldn't agree more. HE knows the sincere softened hearts He gives upon conversion. It isn't left up to hoping for the best in ourselves or others but in believing in the best, which is Him. I still think it important to examine our hearts, to test them, and test them some more, because His softened heart given deserves to be properly tended to. I want to emphasize, "His" heart, because I agree it always is always about Him. The only hope for goodness in others and in ourselves comes from abiding in Him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#18
I believe The thief went to the good side of Hades. That is also where I believe Jesus went during His 3 days in the Tomb.
I would call that Abraham's bosom. Jesus did not ascend to the Father in heaven until 3 days later. Paradise was translated to heaven which contained all the OT saints, those who were captive and led free.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,092
834
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#19
Have you ever wondered how the thief on the cross entered into Paradise without following the New Testament covenantal responsibilities outlined in Acts 2:38?:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Even if the thief wanted to be obedient, coming down off of the cross was not an option. How then is it possible that Jesus could tell the thief that he would be with Him that day in Paradise?

In order to be saved, the man beside Jesus would have been responsible to meet God’s Old Testament commands because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.
Hello Wansvic,

I would remind you of the people in scripture of whom Jesus said, "your sins are forgiven" and that not by the keeping of the law, but because of their faith. The fact is that they were saved purely by faith, as was the thief on the cross. Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross to be with Him in paradise that very day, without being baptized, performing any good works, or fulfilling the Law, reveals that we are not saved by anything other than having faith in Christ, which is what the thief on the cross had when he said, "Lord, remember me when You come into your kingdom." This fact is also demonstrated by the salvation of Cornelius and his house hold when God cleansed their hearts by faith and faith alone (Acts 15:7-9).

"God presented Him as an atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus."

Salvation is obtained by having faith in Jesus, not by the keeping of the law, which puts us to death because we can't keep it. Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law on every believer's behalf, satisfying it completely.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
8,044
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#20
But that is my point, I couldn't agree more. HE knows the sincere softened hearts He gives upon conversion. It isn't left up to hoping for the best in ourselves or others but in believing in the best, which is Him. I still think it important to examine our hearts, to test them, and test them some more, because His softened heart given deserves to be properly tended to. I want to emphasize, "His" heart, because I agree it always is always about Him. The only hope for goodness in others and in ourselves comes from abiding in Him.
Right! We often hear people speak and use the verse "But God looks on our hearts" as if that is so comforting.

Wait a minute here? You mean God, GOD the LORD of Scripture looks on our hearts, and we're like swollen with pure gladness over this? Lolzzzz. Sometimes we don't think deeply enough into that prospect. Hebrews 4:12 anyone? Jeremiah 17:9?

Just think about that, God looks on our hearts, he knows every thought. And then, it is our hearts from where the action of our lives come from. I'm aware that not all of the thoughts of my heart are pure, holy, right, just, good. Uh-oh! :ROFL: :sick:

Well, praise God for his mercy and grace, that's for certain! :)