Those that God gave Christ

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Forest

Guest
If you truly believe this, then why not proclaim the victory we have through Christ that all men are saved.

Does not God do ALL His good pleasure?
I was phrasing what Shroom believes. I do not believe that God wants all mankind to be saved, if he did all mankind would be saved because God accomplishes all his will.
 
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Forest

Guest
26th minute. uggh :p


Am I missing it or does he totally disconnect God choosing the nation of Israel to the latter part of the chapter? To me it seems that he attempts to refute each point of the scripture but then ends up with a big pointless mess at the end, meaning that the chapter makes no point, except that it does not mean what it appears to.
There is a way that seemeth right unto man but the end thereof is the way of death.
 
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Forest

Guest
it is by grace that the person hears the Gospel even once in their life. at that time they can choose to accept or reject.

If they accept the sanctification process begins in order to conform them into the image of Christ and for them to learn to follow the Holy Spirit and not the lust of their flesh.

If they refuse then God is just to judge and condemn them, let them believe a lie, or chasten them so that they might feel godly sorrow and repent and turn back to him. (the sermon you posted the guy even says this)

God's choice to offer His grace and mercy again.

Take the parable of the talents. one is given 10 and they add ten more. one is given 3? and they add 3 more, one is given one and he buries it in the ground and hides it.

the one who hides it gets cast into the Eternal Fire.

what are the talents?

It is the LIGHT of Christ. It is the Measure of Faith God has given to each person. It will either increase or people who have little faith will hide it and deny the name of Jesus before men.
The gospel tells us how we were saved (only by the shed blood of Christ) it does not tell us how to get saved by accepting, believing, repenting, or any other thing that man can do. All that are saved eternally were saved by Christ's work on the cross. When on the cross he said "it is finished", meaning that the work that his Father sent him to do was finished, John 6:37-40. His sacrifice on the cross was to God, for God's acceptence, not to man for man's acceptence.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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The only way that a person will believe in spiritual things is because he has already been born of the Spirit. The natural man will not choose to believe in spiritual things. 1 Cor 2:14. We serve a jealous God and he gets all of the credit for our eternal salvation and man gets none. You are still trying to give man power to save himself eternally. You think that you gave permission to God to save you. Without man's permission God will not save anyone. You can not define that any other way, except salvation by works of man. If you believe it is dependent upon man to get himself saved eternally. Thats false doctrine that credits man instead of God.
Man does NOT get the "credit". The glory goes to God for making salvation available through Christ to any man who chooses to believe.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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I was phrasing what Shroom believes. I do not believe that God wants all mankind to be saved, if he did all mankind would be saved because God accomplishes all his will.

1 Tim 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Who is right, God or Forest?
 
Apr 13, 2011
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The gospel tells us how we were saved (only by the shed blood of Christ) it does not tell us how to get saved by accepting, believing, repenting, or any other thing that man can do. All that are saved eternally were saved by Christ's work on the cross. When on the cross he said "it is finished", meaning that the work that his Father sent him to do was finished, John 6:37-40. His sacrifice on the cross was to God, for God's acceptence, not to man for man's acceptence.
Romans 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Who is right, God or Forest?
 
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Forest

Guest
John said "bear fruit worthy of repentance" and there are other scriptures if you need them.

I believe everyone is given the SEED the WORD OF GOD but not all the ground bears fruit, a chance to accept the Gospel.

Does that mean they are born again or have the Holy Spirit?

Perhaps as Saul did in the OT but when he sinned God replaced it with a distressing spirit.



oh that more would obey the commandments of God. Especially this one then we could chase away those distressing spirits.


Ephesians 5:18-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
There are many called, but few chosen. This was talking about the wedding of Christ to his bride, the church. All of those called were born again children of God. The few chosen are those that God has revealed the truth. Jesus said "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life. The one of God's elect that did not have on the wedding garment was not clothed with the truth. God does not call anyone that is not his elect, and he does call oll of his elect. Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also CALLED, and whom he CALLED, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
There are many called, but few chosen. This was talking about the wedding of Christ to his bride, the church. All of those called were born again children of God. The few chosen are those that God has revealed the truth. Jesus said "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life. The one of God's elect that did not have on the wedding garment was not clothed with the truth. God does not call anyone that is not his elect, and he does call oll of his elect. Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also CALLED, and whom he CALLED, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Lets look at scripture about the wedding feast and those GOD called and what God says about it...

let us do a study then...


Matthew 22

The Parable of the Wedding Feast

1 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, Christ and the church Revelation 19: 9

3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. the blood descendants of Abraham

4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’

5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. they killed the prophets that God sent them

7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. judgement 70 AD

8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ great commission, gospel to the Gentiles

10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests. harvesting of the world, with Angels as being the servants that gather the people

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.
so what is the wedding garment and how do you get it? '
Revelation 3
“I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.[a] 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’


13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and[a] cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”


not all the people God called to the wedding came and those who defile their garments are cast into outer darkness.
 
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Israel

Guest
I was phrasing what Shroom believes. I do not believe that God wants all mankind to be saved, if he did all mankind would be saved because God accomplishes all his will.

Is the almighty God that we worship now subjected to will of any man?

You give the flesh too much power. Don't just quote bible verses out of a book that says out of it's own pages that ETERNAL LIFE IS NOT IN IT!

I ask yet again this question. If we cannot obtain heaven by works, why believe another can earn eternal punishment by the same means?
 

rafaelsald

Senior Member
Dec 30, 2009
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Exactly. It is by the grace of God that we receive the gift of salvation through faith. We cannot earn it. All we have to do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Since the divine "grace" in salvation is by definition something that God gives and exercises, and is not at all something produced or exercised by us, it would appear redundant and unnecessary to say that the "grace" is "not from yourselves." Certainly in that context the gift of God is referring to faith.

The idea that man has any positive role in his own salvation ("producing his own faith in Christ") contradicts the immediate context of the verse (2:1-10).

How does a man totally depraved, sinful and unable to please God can suddenly produce a faith through his "Free Will"?

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. {desires: Gr. wills}"
Ephesians 2:2-3

Do not you see that the "faith" of the Arminian theology makes man as a participant in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross?

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset {us}, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of {our} faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God"{author: or, beginner} Hebrews 12:1-2

Jesus Christ is the "author and finisher" of our faith. He is the origin and source of faith, the purpose of faith and who completes and perfects our faith. Anything contrary to this is anathema.

Yep. All men are sinners.
Okay.

Keep reading...
20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22) Even the righteousness of God through faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
"Unto all and upon all them that believe"

If you read what Paul said in verses 18 and 20, you will know that the righteousness of God through by faith in Jesus Christ is offered to all, ie now there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in this aspect or between any group of people for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Thus, the context is clear that "all" refers to group of people (Jews and Gentiles in that context) and not to all men.

Only those who are ordained to eternal life will trully believe. (John 6:37; John 10:27-29; Acts 13:48; Ephesians 1:4)
 
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Forest

Guest
Is the almighty God that we worship now subjected to will of any man?

You give the flesh too much power. Don't just quote bible verses out of a book that says out of it's own pages that ETERNAL LIFE IS NOT IN IT!

I ask yet again this question. If we cannot obtain heaven by works, why believe another can earn eternal punishment by the same means?
God is soverign and not subjected to man's will. The KJV bible has nothing from cover to cover that will save us eternally, although it does tell us how we were saved and thats by the shed blood of Christ. All mankind were justly due eternal punishment, but because of the grace and mercy of God he choose some before the foundation of the world that he would save from that fate and told his Son to reconcile all those that he gave him which he did on the cross. Yes! eternal life is not in the KJV of the bible or in any other book! The inspired word of God are instructions as to how his elect should live their lives here in this world. It does not tell anyone how to GET SAVED.
 
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Forest

Guest
Since the divine "grace" in salvation is by definition something that God gives and exercises, and is not at all something produced or exercised by us, it would appear redundant and unnecessary to say that the "grace" is "not from yourselves." Certainly in that context the gift of God is referring to faith.

The idea that man has any positive role in his own salvation ("producing his own faith in Christ") contradicts the immediate context of the verse (2:1-10).

How does a man totally depraved, sinful and unable to please God can suddenly produce a faith through his "Free Will"?

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. {desires: Gr. wills}" Ephesians 2:2-3

Do not you see that the "faith" of the Arminian theology makes man as a participant in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross?

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset {us}, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of {our} faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God"{author: or, beginner} Hebrews 12:1-2

Jesus Christ is the "author and finisher" of our faith. He is the origin and source of faith, the purpose of faith and who completes and perfects our faith. Anything contrary to this is anathema.



Okay.



"Unto all and upon all them that believe"

If you read what Paul said in verses 18 and 20, you will know that the righteousness of God through by faith in Jesus Christ is offered to all, ie now there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in this aspect or between any group of people for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Thus, the context is clear that "all" refers to group of people (Jews and Gentiles in that context) and not to all men.

Only those who are ordained to eternal life will trully believe. (John 6:37; John 10:27-29; Acts 13:48; Ephesians 1:4)
I think you said it better than I could have said it, maybe Shroom will listen to you, he turns a deaf ear to me.
 
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Forest

Guest
1 Tim 2:4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Who is right, God or Forest?
Shroom, can you remember how many times that I have explained that scripture to you? I have lost count.
 
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Forest

Guest
Romans 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Who is right, God or Forest?
Same as 1 Tim, I have lost count on this one too.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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I think you said it better than I could have said it, maybe Shroom will listen to you, he turns a deaf ear to me.
Calvinism is a lie. God is not the god of the Calvinists. God made salvation available through Christ to anyone who will choose to believe.
 
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Forest

Guest
Lets look at scripture about the wedding feast and those GOD called and what God says about it...

let us do a study then...




not all the people God called to the wedding came and those who defile their garments are cast into outer darkness.
All scripture must harmonise, or we are interpreting it wrong.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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Shroom, can you remember how many times that I have explained that scripture to you? I have lost count.
If you explain it wrongly 500 times, you're still wrong.
 
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Forest

Guest
Calvinism is a lie. God is not the god of the Calvinists. God made salvation available through Christ to anyone who will choose to believe.
The natural man will not choose anything of a spiritual nature because they are spiritually descerned and the natural man does not have the Spirit. 1 Cor 2:14.
 
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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God is soverign and not subjected to man's will. The KJV bible has nothing from cover to cover that will save us eternally, although it does tell us how we were saved and thats by the shed blood of Christ. All mankind were justly due eternal punishment, but because of the grace and mercy of God he choose some before the foundation of the world that he would save from that fate and told his Son to reconcile all those that he gave him which he did on the cross. Yes! eternal life is not in the KJV of the bible or in any other book! The inspired word of God are instructions as to how his elect should live their lives here in this world. It does not tell anyone how to GET SAVED.
Forest, I think you're losing it. You're getting further and further from the truth.