Titus 2 Women teaching

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C

cornerstone

Guest
#1
In Titus 2, older women are told to teach younger women. How does this harmonize with the belief that many have that women are not to teach? I have heard all my life that women are to remain silent, but how does that harmonize with Titus 2? Silence as defined in scripture often refers to sober mindedness and "keeping ones seat" not non-verbal. I understand that women are not to usurp authority but if you have 3/4 of your body dysfunctional or non-contributing, how do you have a functional body? I guess what I am asking is what is the Biblical role for women within the church. I often hear the pat answers......silent, submissive, but that doesn't harmonize with the directive in Titus 2. Did not both Priscilla and Aquilla teach Apollos a "more excellent way"? Did not Paul tell Phebe to go and tell the church her needs? What about Dorcus' contribution to the body?
 
L

Leilaii425

Guest
#2
There are certain things a man cannot teach a woman.. Thats all i have to say about it
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#3
hmm what aspect of numchuck useage can't we teach you?
 
L

Leilaii425

Guest
#4
no comment...........................
 
Jan 31, 2009
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#5
obviously, you not been listening too good! it's said that women are not to teach man. again no contradictions in the word simply how you read or understand the word
you know you could have looked up this verse to see yourself what it said, it might do you some good to look into the word yourself some. instead of taking other people's word on what the Bible says


1ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
 
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J

Jezreel

Guest
#6
1Timmothy 2:12 It says that a "I won't put up with a woman to teach or to usurp (by force) authority over the man, but to be in silence for Adam was first formed then Eve and Adam was not deceived but the woman being deceived, was in the transgression.......etc
The older women (elders) are to teach the younger women and that is alright.
This is the controversy and I will share something with you that are my personal feelings.
With organized religeon and men who are trained and taught at cemetaries, opps! I mean seminaries, it is like a cookie cutter and mostly it turns out pastors and teachers etc who are ordained by man and NOT necessarily ordained by God. Only God can anoint men to be apostles and pastors and teachers and evangelists. In our own territory, we are teachers whether we like it or not, our lives are a testimoney and, everybody is given the ministry of reconciliation. In the system of organized religeon where most the men who are leaders who are not ordained by God, it don't even matter to me if the denomination ordains pastors who are women, or even gay!! It is organized religeon that God has nothing to do with except for his few children that are birthed in them. If organized religeon wants to ordain an ass, I would not be shocked, I don't care what they do.These religeous "kingdoms of the world" are only bearing the fruit of the seed they come from, every seed bears it's own kind and the word says that the anti Christ would be revealed. Jesus said, "If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived" Matthew 24. So, it is something close to the truth not something obvious like J.W's and Mormons etc. and obvious cults. If you looked up deceivers online like Sherry Shriner, you will understand how apostate people can get and how closely she twists the word of God teaching demon seed doctrine and saying Paul was a flase apostle.

In the body of Christ where he has baptised his true members into the body of Christ where he is the head of all principality and power, his anointed who are servants, will do by the nature of Christ and not the will of man have holy order in his church no matter where they assemble.
Another thing I have witnessed where Paul is correct in saying that a woman was deceived, we need our husbands for counsel because this is true. You look at all the wierd cults that are out in the world and you will notice that more women attend them than men. Look at the women who love Benny Hinn because they secretly lust after their false leaders also. If you hear a woman glorify and exault and speak of her pastor all the time on how great he is instead of Jesus, that lets me discern that something is drastically wrong. This goes the same for a man. Back in the time of the bible, most women taught their children at home and they were home schooled also. Today, our worldly system makes it so the mothers have to go out and work and not be home for their children. That is a deliberate plan of Satan so the children can be taught and indoctrinated by worldy antiChrist beliefs. We women are the weaker vessel and I myself have made errors becausse of my emmotions and I thank God that my husband was there to give me correct answers to things. We can be taught by the holy spirit in the day and age with all the religeous confusion " I know that my husband appreciates my being able to answer him with scripture when he wants to know what it says because I remember. He cannot remember like God has given me remembrance. I wish I could remember by verse and number and I don't. Besides that, man put in the verses and the chapters etc. making it easier for us to find.
I know that God has gifted me with talents and I don't have to attend organized religeon for him to use me because I don't want to "sell out" and jump through hoops just to have church accept me and let me "perform". You usually have to play the "religeous politics", sign church membership and agree to their by laws and promise to "tithe and support" to their so called storehouse. The leaders have to "approve" of you so they know that you will not be a threat to their kingdom. They use the excuse that they "have to get to know you" before you can use your talents because there may be wierd people come in and disrupt and teach things against their doctrines". It is not so in the word of God. We don't have to prove ourselves to man, but only to God and the elders can easily correct somebody if they are wrong but, the leaders of organized religeon want to make sure they are in control. In jumping through hoops and playing the religeous politics, it would show me that if I did that, I would only do it because I would want recognition and to be seen of man. Our flesh loves recognition and it is the flesh that drives people to want to be up in front of people. The body of Christ was not set up like that. Everybody could participate. They use that excuse that they train their members to parrot, "doesn't God want order"? Instead of reading their bibles and praying to God for discernment, people are turned into "parrots" who repeat what the pastors want them to repeat. Touch not God's anointed is another twisted scripture they use to protect their own personal kingdoms.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#7
Well unorganised religion isn't exactly perfect either, it is rather - unorganised.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#8
Absoluely, in Corinthians, there was all kinds of things going on that the apostle Paul had to address.
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
#9
Women are not supposed to teach or exercise authority over men in spiritual matters. Women are to teach other women and children.
 
Feb 27, 2007
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#10
Jezreel, I agreed with almost everything you had to post. One exception was part of your perspective on the Church. I think we tend to stand in righteous judgement of the failings of the Church... the Church is the people. People make mistakes, yes we definitely have to assess which mistakes we are willing to overlook when we seek the building and the body that we want to associate with. You are right, too many attend the church and have absolutely no fellowship with the Lord. I am still seeking that building to bring my children to that they may have fellowship with other believers. Until I have the right fit, it basically has no bearing on my relationship with the Lord. It would however, be nice to have a pastor to run my questions by... for now I have a couple of people in cc who i message my biblical questions to. I hear you about the women and cults thing. Do you think its any coincidence that the Jw's visit homes during the day when the husband works & then eventually a high percentage of jw women end up separated and divorced. They promote the breakdown of the family unit and normally, yes... as much as most of you dont want to hear this, the start is usually with the Lonely or depressed or distressed housewife. I know that sounds very anti JW which is exactly what i intended it to be. I've lost a couple of family members to that cult and their whole worlds were turned upside down because of it and the sad thing is they have NO CLUE that the church is the issue. I continue in prayer for them. Anyway thank you for you post... I'm pretty sure there will be alot of disagreement from the ladies but you know what I think our structure of society today has pretty much run the family unit in the ditch & its rare to have a cohesive family unit. I think that we need to listen to the Lords instruction with respect to womens authority in the church.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#11
I am only against the organized man structured aspects of the worldy church. Not the people of Christ who are scattered throughout, they are the true church. I know that people can misunderstand what I am trying to express.
 
A

Aliciaforjesus

Guest
#12
In Titus 2, older women are told to teach younger women. How does this harmonize with the belief that many have that women are not to teach? I have heard all my life that women are to remain silent, but how does that harmonize with Titus 2? Silence as defined in scripture often refers to sober mindedness and "keeping ones seat" not non-verbal. I understand that women are not to usurp authority but if you have 3/4 of your body dysfunctional or non-contributing, how do you have a functional body? I guess what I am asking is what is the Biblical role for women within the church. I often hear the pat answers......silent, submissive, but that doesn't harmonize with the directive in Titus 2. Did not both Priscilla and Aquilla teach Apollos a "more excellent way"? Did not Paul tell Phebe to go and tell the church her needs? What about Dorcus' contribution to the body?
I say, what about the prophetess Debhorah.
Judges 4:4
she judged Israel at the time.
This is a place of authority over a whole nation?
The children of Israel came up to her for Judgment.

I think people use the scriptures to put us in bondage as a women.

I think if you are doing what God called you to do, than do it!

I know from personal experience when you keep your eyes on Jesus, there is neither male nor female, only people who need love and to know the truth which sets us all free.

God show no favorites!

Men are called to do what God called them to do, and women are put here to help the men do what Gods called them to do. God sets the church up with Apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelist, and who are we to say woman are not to teach or be in a place of authority when it is clear God has placed woman in these positions, even in the old testament. God places these positions to edify, to build up, to correct, to teach and bring us to the fulfillment of being a spotless bride.
Why would God say a woman is a help-mate, if men didn't need the help?

In bible college, they teach that woman back then lacked education and many of them could not read. During the services they had problems with the woman interrupting the services when they didn't understand what was being said.
So they put down a rule to fit during their time in history.
Men were raised and taught to know the word, it was custom!

Is is not God who anoints someone to preach or teach, who are we to question God!

Where ever the Spirit of the Lord there is freedom,
Is this only for men?

God loves unity between His children, not division!

Adam and Eve walked together in the garden with God, before the fall!

What is the purpose of Jesus coming back?
It was to restore what was lost from the fall.








 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#13
I truly do understand what you are expressing because even though I feel the way you feel, I have to obey the scriptures. God does use me all the time. Even if it is not inside a building that is called the church. We have to exercise our gifts because that is where our joy comes from and the joy of the Lord is our strength. There is neither male nor female in the kingdom of God. We just have to know our place in the kingdom.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#14
I teach my husband stuff all the time about Christ. I don't think when I die and go to heaven, God's gonna tell me no deal just because I taught a man about him. There is no male or female in God's eyes. He'll call on ALL his children. I don't think women need to be questioning the authority of men in church, I don't think they need to be causing a rucus, or sowing seeds of discontent. But if a woman is called on to teach through her wisdom and knowledge, there is nothing wrong with that. I have truly been touched by words of women preachers before, and people could say it was satan decieving me, but why would satan put words in a woman's mouth that made me closer to God? It doesn't make sense.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#15
I think it's perfectly fine if a man or your husband wants to be taught by a woman. The scriptures are about women usurping authority over men (i.e. dominating without the man's permission) - not about not men letting women teach them in general.
 

Kakashi

Senior Member
Jan 3, 2007
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#16
I think it's perfectly fine if a man or your husband wants to be taught by a woman. The scriptures are about women usurping authority over men (i.e. dominating without the man's permission) - not about not men letting women teach them in general.
Aye, I agree with this.

Also, you have to think about the state of women back then. MOST( EMPHASIS HERE) Women did not have a theological background, and Paul really didn't want the women he was addressing( who had no idea what they were talking about) usurping power from then men who had more of a theological background. Is it possible that Paul was addressing a real problem at just a few churches where women were abusing their freedom in Christ to try and usurp power and not a general ''women shouldn't teach" period mentality? I think it's very likely. Women who didn't know much were told to be of a sober mind and learn quietly. This was actually a great opportunity.

Cornerstone said "Did not both Priscilla and Aquilla teach Apollos a "more excellent way"? Did not Paul tell Phebe to go and tell the church her needs? What about Dorcus' contribution to the body?" True, a women helped a man, but there was no usurping going on, but rather the body of Christ was working together.

Women can teach, but in a proper setting, and if they have the proper knowledge for it, just like a man. I see no problem with a woman teaching really. I've had bible teachers who were women and they were quite awesome lol.\

Overall, i think i's also the attitude behind it all. Proper context can go a long way when reading many of these verses.
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
#17
Alicia,

Deborah's role as a judge was CIVIL in nature. She was not a priest.
 
J

Jezreel

Guest
#18
Also, during that time the children of Israel were doing so poorly that there was not a man worthy in spirit to have God choose them to be a judge so when God chose a woman, Deborah, it was actually God also making a statement to Israel that was humiliating to men. To have a woman rule as a judge over you, was very shameful for the men to have to obey a woman.
 
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