To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Shlomit

New member
Jun 10, 2021
9
11
3
#1
Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,588
2,999
113
#2
Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you
I can only repond on the two points you have brought forward..

1) dietary laws..

Jesus said that it was not what went into a mans mouth that defiled Him, But what came out.. Later the apostles advised not to burden the gentiles with these dietary laws.. They did however advise the gentiles not to eat meat that had been offered to idols..

2) Jesus never rescinded any of the laws against people having sexual relations with people of the same sex..
In the NT we read the following..

Romans 1: KJV
20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: {21} Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. {22} Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, {23} And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. {24} Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: {25} Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. {26} For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: {27} And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. {28} And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

This is talking about people being given over to sexual deviancy. The description is clearly talking about homosexuality and that metal state is reprobate..

So on the first issue Jesus made it clear that eating foods did not make a person immoral or moral and the Apostles later gave only basic guidance to the gentiles on their eating habits.. But on the second issue Jesus never declared homosexuality to not ok and later Paul's letter Romans made it clear that such activity was reprobate and a vile affection and the dishonoring of their bodies..
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,722
6,154
113
#3
Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you
Your question was a little confusing in your thread title, relative to your first post.

What you REALLY mean is “should Christians follow the Law of Moses”.

We have only two “Laws” now.


Matthew 22:37-39
New King James Version



37 Jesus said to him,“‘You shall love the Lordyour God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
 

Shlomit

New member
Jun 10, 2021
9
11
3
#4
I can only repond on the two points you have brought forward..

1) dietary laws..

Jesus said that it was not what went into a mans mouth that defiled Him, But what came out.. Later the apostles advised not to burden the gentiles with these dietary laws.. They did however advise the gentiles not to eat meat that had been offered to idols..

2) Jesus never rescinded any of the laws against people having sexual relations with people of the same sex..
In the NT we read the following..

Romans 1: KJV
20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: {21} Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. {22} Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, {23} And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. {24} Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: {25} Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. {26} For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: {27} And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. {28} And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

This is talking about people being given over to sexual deviancy. The description is clearly talking about homosexuality and that metal state is reprobate..

So on the first issue Jesus made it clear that eating foods did not make a person immoral or moral and the Apostles later gave only basic guidance to the gentiles on their eating habits.. But on the second issue Jesus never declared homosexuality to not ok and later Paul's letter Romans made it clear that such activity was reprobate and a vile affection and the dishonoring of their bodies..
Which laws did Jesus rescind?
 

Shlomit

New member
Jun 10, 2021
9
11
3
#5
Your question was a little confusing in your thread title, relative to your first post.

What you REALLY mean is “should Christians follow the Law of Moses”.

We have only two “Laws” now.


Matthew 22:37-39
New King James Version



37 Jesus said to him,“‘You shall love the Lordyour God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
So the laws of the OT are not relevant to Christians. I understand.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,827
951
113
31
#6
So the laws of the OT are not relevant to Christians. I understand.
Is good evil? There are still moral principles within the Law that, well, are still moral. I am not saying we are under the Law in respect to its penalty (it is a covenant) but we see many lessons in the OT, especially all of the stories of people of faith that we can glean from. Principles to live by. Even Paul says that had the Law not said to “not covet” he wouldn’t have known the sin of lust.

Romans 7:7 King James Version
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So it still serves a purpose in understanding right and wrong. It just does not condemn us any longer, however, as we are in Christ under a new covenant.
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,616
16,821
113
#7
sin is still sin.

Adultery is still sin. Homosexuality is sin. Bearing false witness is sin.

What jesus did was save us from the penalty of committing those sins (death) but they are still sin.

as for dietary laws, They were given to the jews.. As a jew living in the covenant, They probebly should still keep those laws. As a gentile. we never were obligated to keep them. But even then. No one will be saved or lost by keeping or not keeping those commands.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
6,532
3,209
113
#8
So ,the laws of the OT are not relevant to Christians. I understand.
You will need to study the differences in the OT laws. You have ceremonial, judicial, subcompact, and moral. Moral laws are universal and transcending. They are unchanging. It was a sin to murder Abel in the beginning, just as it is today. Murder is wrong under the moral law. The moral laws are repeated in the NT. Repeated and even made more substantial, as in even thinking in anger is like committing murder in your heart.

The ceremonial, judicial, and subcompact laws were for a theocratic nation and certain chosen race. It was fulfilled in Christ. No longer binding but still considered Holy as it came from God. The Mosiac laws are still profitable for teaching on certain truths but spiritually do nothing to save us in salvation.

The only law that counts is the law of Christ. We are still condemned today by our rebellion against the moral laws, conscience, and rebellion against God's special/ natural revelation. We have no way to atone for the debt of these sins, except through Christ Jesus.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,722
6,154
113
#9
So the laws of the OT are not relevant to Christians. I understand.
You have chosen a Jewish name for your screen name.

Do you follow the Law?

Are you a Hebrew roots adherent?
 
Feb 22, 2021
347
102
43
Midwest
#10
Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you
Precious friend, Shlomit, "the OT" is for our learning:

Rom_15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of The Scriptures might have hope.

Amen? Praying hopefully this {Especially # (2)}, brings Even
More Clarity to the Confusing "mixed messages" you have received:

God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:

(1) believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (
1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

Results: all sins Forgiven, Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!

(2) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor as thyself!"
(
Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!) Very Simple, eh?

(3) "Study" HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, for "Approval!"
(
2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

Eternal Results: reward, ruling, and reigning With CHRIST!

Precious friend(s): Please Be Very Richly Blessed!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,050
7,269
113
#11
Would anyone like to offer some clarity?
The OT is as much for Christians as is the NT. Indeed the entire Bible is a necessity. At the same time we need to be aware that certain aspects of the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) are null and void. Dietary laws no longer apply. But homosexuality is condemned in the NT, so that is a non-issue. And there are many instructions in the OT which are as applicable today as they were originally. You need to apply spiritual discernment.

Christ fulfilled everything related to the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices and offering, the feasts, festivals, and holy days. And that is why the temple veil was torn from top to bottom. There is no more sacrifice for sins. And without the temple, none of the feasts can be observed. Tithing was applicable to the Levitical priesthood, so it is no longer applicable. But Christian giving and liberality is taught in the NT.
 

Shlomit

New member
Jun 10, 2021
9
11
3
#12
sin is still sin.

Adultery is still sin. Homosexuality is sin. Bearing false witness is sin.

What jesus did was save us from the penalty of committing those sins (death) but they are still sin.

as for dietary laws, They were given to the jews.. As a jew living in the covenant, They probebly should still keep those laws. As a gentile. we never were obligated to keep them. But even then. No one will be saved or lost by keeping or not keeping those commands.
Sin is still sin.

A is A.

Who are 'the jews'?
 

Shlomit

New member
Jun 10, 2021
9
11
3
#13
The OT is as much for Christians as is the NT. Indeed the entire Bible is a necessity. At the same time we need to be aware that certain aspects of the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses) are null and void. Dietary laws no longer apply. But homosexuality is condemned in the NT, so that is a non-issue. And there are many instructions in the OT which are as applicable today as they were originally. You need to apply spiritual discernment.

Christ fulfilled everything related to the temple, the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices and offering, the feasts, festivals, and holy days. And that is why the temple veil was torn from top to bottom. There is no more sacrifice for sins. And without the temple, none of the feasts can be observed.
What would you argue the 'entire Bible' is? When was this Bible codified?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,050
7,269
113
#15
What would you argue the 'entire Bible' is? When was this Bible codified?
The 66 books of the Protestant Bible are the canon of Scripture. Christ already gave us the OT canon -- the Law (5 books), the Prophets (8 books), and the Psalms or Writings (11 books). These 24 books in the Hebrew Tanakh are 39 books in the OT. Then we have 27 books in the NT and that canon was established by the 2nd century AD.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,803
3,292
113
#17
Hello.

I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.

Would anyone like to offer some clarity?

Thank you
The moral laws still apply, as they are a reflection of God's nature. The Levitical laws don't, as they were instituted under a different covenant and priesthood (that of Levi), whereas now we have a new priesthood, that of Judah. Read Hebrews 7 and 8...

Hebrews 7:12-14 (NASB) For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
 
L

listenyoumust

Guest
#18
my Friend it matters a whole lot , it could seem boring ..yes i unerstand , yet the OT gives texture to the story of Our savior Jesus. it helps the New believer to comprehension of identity in Jesus. Personally i read the new testament first and when i read the OT it was so like easy to unerstand that God is not a respecter of persons (no favoritism) .. the BEliever is graced in Jesus alone to eternal life .
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
18,792
4,902
113
#19
He certainly does come to each of us in the unique manner only He knows we need.. gOD BLESS YOU ALWAYS.