Torah Observant Christians.

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Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
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#1
The discussion I started with regards to “Tithing” was interesting to say the least. This brings me to another topic I would like to hear from people on. Torah observant Christians. Of course there plenty of scripture in the NT contrary to this brief, but I would certainly like to heard others views on the subject. Enjoy!

181BD39C-F452-4A40-AE91-B4EFBC16AA99.jpeg
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
433
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#2
Should Christians follow Torah? No. There is not a single command for the Gentile believers in the New Testament to tell them to do so.

I would strongly advice against going for the Torah observant movement because of the dangers it presents, two of my main concerns are:

-If they "keep torah" but say they do not do it for salvation, they tend to also put Christians into categories where the torah observant ones are the superior ones.
-If they "keep torah" for salvation purposes then we got salvation by works which is another Gospel that does not save.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#4
I'd say this is more of a hornet's nest than tithing. There are several on this forum who advocate for Torah observance.

Some of them have even read Galatians.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#5
Hello @Aerials1978, if Christians use the Law as behavior checklist (IOW, as a means of knowing/understanding what it is in God's eyes to be holy and righteous), that's a good use of the Law. The idea that anyone can "keep" the law/keep Torah is not, because no one can .. cf James 2:10-11.

The Law can't save anyone .. e.g. Galatians 2:21, 3:21-22 (nor was that ever God's intention in giving it to us .. cf Romans 3:20, Galatians 3:24), but it is, first and foremost, meant to 1. help us see ourselves for who we really are (lost sinners) and then 2. drive us to the precious feet of the One who can (save us, that is :)).

God bless you!

~Deut

Galatians 3
24 The Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#6
I thought this might prove to be helpful, an explanation of The Threefold Use of the Law (outlined for us by Nathan W. Bingham).

Scripture shows that God intends His law to function in three ways, which Calvin crystalized in classic form for the church’s benefit as the law’s threefold use.
Its first function is to be a mirror reflecting to us both the perfect righteousness of God and our own sinfulness and shortcomings. As Augustine wrote, “the law bids us, as we try to fulfill its requirements, and become wearied in our weakness under it, to know how to ask the help of grace.” The law is meant to give knowledge of sin (Rom. 3:20; 4:15; 5:13; 7:7-11), and by showing us our need of pardon and our danger of damnation to lead us in repentance and faith to Christ (Gal. 3:19-24).
A second function, the “civil use,” is to restrain evil. Though the law cannot change the heart, it can to some extent inhibit lawlessness by its threats of judgement, especially when backed by a civil code that administers punishment for proven offenses (Deut. 13:6-11; 19:16-21; Rom. 13:3, 4). Thus it secures civil order, and serves to protect the righteous from the unjust.
Its third function is to guide the regenerate into the good works that God has planned for them (Eph. 2:10). The law tells God’s children what will please their heavenly Father. It could be called their family code. Christ was speaking of this third use of the law when He said that those who become His disciples must be taught to do all that He had commanded (Matt. 28:20), and that obedience to His commands will prove the reality of one’s love for Him (John 14:15). The Christian is free from the law as a system of salvation (Rom. 6:14; 7:4, 6; 1 Cor. 9:20; Gal. 2:15-19, 3:25), but is “under the law of Christ” as a rule of life (1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2).

~Deut
p.s. - for a little bit more on this topic, go here: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/which-laws-apply/
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,343
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#7
I'd say this is more of a hornet's nest than tithing. There are several on this forum who advocate for Torah observance.

Some of them have even read Galatians.
Brother, it seems to me that creating a "hornet's nest" is what this particular board is all about much of the time ;)

~Deut

Galatians 3
10 “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM.”
11 That no one is justified by the Law before God is evident for, THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.
(Romans 1:16-17)
 

Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
316
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#8
Here is a list of all Torah commandments:
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html#NCs

I think a lot of these commandments still apply.
I have to disagree. If one is it to follow a portion of these Laws, one must follow all of them. Even the Israelites couldn’t do that. The letter from Apostles to the Church or Antioch addressed Christian Believes whom wanted to be observant to all of the Hebrew Laws.
 

Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
316
231
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#9
Hello @Aerials1978, if Christians use the Law as behavior checklist (IOW, as a means of knowing/understanding what it is in God's eyes to be holy and righteous), that's a good use of the Law. The idea that anyone can "keep" the law/keep Torah is not, because no one can .. cf James 2:10-11.

The Law can't save anyone .. e.g. Galatians 2:21, 3:21-22 (nor was that ever God's intention in giving it to us .. cf Romans 3:20, Galatians 3:24), but it is, first and foremost, meant to 1. help us see ourselves for who we really are (lost sinners) and then 2. drive us to the precious feet of the One who can (save us, that is :)).

God bless you!

~Deut

Galatians 3
24 The Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
One would think this issue was resolved 2000 years ago. Some Christians believe this will make they more acceptable to God. Of course it won’t.
 

IFOLLOWHIM

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2019
3,039
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#10
Are the 10 Commandments set apart from the Torah and do they apply to Christianity today or just the 2 Jesus quoted in which the others hang?
 

Aerials1978

Active member
Dec 10, 2019
316
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#11
Are the 10 Commandments set apart from the Torah and do they apply to Christianity today or just the 2 Jesus quoted in which the others hang?
I would say they don’t. Again these were given to the Hebrews. Are they standards in which Christians should strive for with regards to their faith? I would say yes. This of course will not earn you salvation. We have already broken these commandments which makes us law breakers. If we do break them we should always repent.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
27,811
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#12
Follow Torah???
First off, you need a Temple, a Priesthood and PETA will never let you get away with the animal sacrifices.
Otherwise, you can pretend you are following Torah.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
2,636
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#13
The discussion I started with regards to “Tithing” was interesting to say the least. This brings me to another topic I would like to hear from people on. Torah observant Christians. Of course there plenty of scripture in the NT contrary to this brief, but I would certainly like to heard others views on the subject. Enjoy!

View attachment 209824
Many of them just reduce the Torah to trying their best to keep the 2 greatest commandments.
 

TheIndianGirl

Active member
Nov 22, 2019
118
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#14
It is not a requirement to live by the Torah, but it is not forbidden either I don't think. It is not a sin if one wants to follow them. I think there is a lot of value added to many of the commandments, and many are an extension of the 10 commandments. However the person should keep in mind we are not under the law.
 
Dec 23, 2018
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My Tiny Apartment
#15
(Referencing Acts 15:1-35) In the first years of the Christianity as Gentile believers were being drawn to Christ, there was a prevailing thought that the first thing that should be done is that these Gentiles first convert to Judaism and follow the Mosaic Law before they could be saved. About AD50, the leaders of the church (Peter, James, Paul and Barnabas among them) gave instructions which included only avoiding food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from them meat of strangles animals and sexual immorality (v29).

If we were to strictly follow the Torah, then our salvation would be dependent upon earning that salvation through the work that we must do in order to follow the law. This is opposite to what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,923
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#16
Should Christians follow Torah? No. There is not a single command for the Gentile believers in the New Testament to tell them to do so.
Correct. The Torah contains the Old Covenant -- the Law of Moses. The New Testament contains the New Covenant -- the Law of Christ. You cannot have both at the same time. When the issue of Torah observance came up, the Holy Spirit, the apostles, and the elders at Jerusalem were all on one accord. The primary issue was the consumption of blood by Christians and meats sacrificed to idols. Blood was forbidden from the time of Noah. (Fornication is excluded in both covenants).
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
12,251
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#17
Torah definition is - the body of wisdom and law contained in Jewish Scripture and other sacred literature and oral tradition.

By those kind of traditions the word of God is made to no effect. And it becomes a law of men called the law of the fathers or kings..

One Devine unseen authority as it is written (sola scriptura) not two

Law of the father #80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the "same goal."

The "same goal" makes the word of God without effect.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,929
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#18
Torah definition is - the body of wisdom and law contained in Jewish Scripture and other sacred literature and oral tradition.
Where did you get that definition?
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,343
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#19
Where did you get that definition?
Hello Dino, (I hope that you and @garee don't mind if I jump in here) Jewish tradition teaches the Moses gave us two "Torahs", the Written Torah and the Oral Torah, so they believe that just like the OT, their oral Tradition came from God and was given to them by word of mouth through Moses.

Of course, what Jesus revealed to us about Jewish "Tradition", their "Oral Torah", in the Bible .. e.g. Matthew 15:1-9, tells us that their claim of a God-given oral tradition cannot be true.

~Deut
 

17Bees

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2016
599
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#20
Deut - are you talking about the talmud here when speaking of the oral tradition?