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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Genesis 4

Now the man [SUP][a][/SUP]had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to [SUP][/SUP]Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a [SUP][c][/SUP]manchild with the help of the Lord.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So it came about [SUP][d][/SUP]in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, [SUP][e][/SUP]will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Cain [SUP][f][/SUP]told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” [SUP]10 [/SUP]He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When you cultivate the ground, it will no longer yield its strength to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to bear! [SUP]14 [/SUP]Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the Lord said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord [SUP][g][/SUP]appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and [SUP][h][/SUP]settled in the land of [SUP][/SUP]Nod, east of Eden.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Cain [SUP][j][/SUP]had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad [SUP][k][/SUP]became the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael [SUP][l][/SUP]became the father of Methushael, and Methushael [SUP][m][/SUP]became the father of Lamech. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. [SUP]21 [/SUP]His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]As for Zillah, she also gave birth to Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron; and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah,
Listen to my voice,
You wives of Lamech,
Give heed to my speech,
For I [SUP][n][/SUP]have killed a man for wounding me;
And a boy for striking me;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Adam [SUP][o][/SUP]had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him [SUP][p][/SUP]Seth, for, she said, “God [SUP][q][/SUP]has appointed me another [SUP][r][/SUP]offspring in place of Abel, for Cain killed him.” [SUP]26 [/SUP]To Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then men began to call [SUP][/SUP]upon the name of the Lord.


Footnotes:

a. Genesis 4:1 Lit knew
b. Genesis 4:1 I.e. gotten one
c. Genesis 4:1 Or man, the Lord
d. Genesis 4:3 Lit at the end of days
e. Genesis 4:7 Or surely you will be accepted
f. Genesis 4:8 Lit said to
g. Genesis 4:15 Or set a mark on
h. Genesis 4:16 Lit dwelt
i. Genesis 4:16 I.e. wandering
j. Genesis 4:17 Lit knew
k. Genesis 4:18 Lit begot
l. Genesis 4:18 Lit begot
m. Genesis 4:18 Lit begot
n. Genesis 4:23 Or kill
o. Genesis 4:25 Lit knew
p. Genesis 4:25 Heb Sheth
q. Genesis 4:25 Heb shath
r. Genesis 4:25 Lit seed
s. Genesis 4:26 Or by
 
Last edited:

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Genesis 4

Now the man [SUP][a][/SUP]had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to [SUP][/SUP]Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a [SUP][c][/SUP]manchild with the help of the Lord.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So it came about [SUP][d][/SUP]in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering; [SUP]5 [/SUP]but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you do well, [SUP][e][/SUP]will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]Cain [SUP][f][/SUP]told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” [SUP]10 [/SUP]He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to Me from the ground. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. [SUP]12 [/SUP]When you cultivate the ground, it will no longer yield its strength to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is too great to bear! [SUP]14 [/SUP]Behold, You have driven me this day from the face of the ground; and from Your face I will be hidden, and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]So the Lord said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord [SUP][g][/SUP]appointed a sign for Cain, so that no one finding him would slay him.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and [SUP][h][/SUP]settled in the land of [SUP][/SUP]Nod, east of Eden.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Cain [SUP][j][/SUP]had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad [SUP][k][/SUP]became the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael [SUP][l][/SUP]became the father of Methushael, and Methushael [SUP][m][/SUP]became the father of Lamech. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. [SUP]21 [/SUP]His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]As for Zillah, she also gave birth to Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron; and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Lamech said to his wives,

“Adah and Zillah,
Listen to my voice,
You wives of Lamech,
Give heed to my speech,
For I [SUP][n][/SUP]have killed a man for wounding me;
And a boy for striking me;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Adam [SUP][o][/SUP]had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him [SUP][p][/SUP]Seth, for, she said, “God [SUP][q][/SUP]has appointed me another [SUP][r][/SUP]offspring in place of Abel, for Cain killed him.” [SUP]26 [/SUP]To Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then men began to call [SUP][/SUP]upon the name of the Lord.


Footnotes:

a. Genesis 4:1 Lit knew
b. Genesis 4:1 I.e. gotten one
c. Genesis 4:1 Or man, the Lord
d. Genesis 4:3 Lit at the end of days
e. Genesis 4:7 Or surely you will be accepted
f. Genesis 4:8 Lit said to
g. Genesis 4:15 Or set a mark on
h. Genesis 4:16 Lit dwelt
i. Genesis 4:16 I.e. wandering
j. Genesis 4:17 Lit knew
k. Genesis 4:18 Lit begot
l. Genesis 4:18 Lit begot
m. Genesis 4:18 Lit begot
n. Genesis 4:23 Or kill
o. Genesis 4:25 Lit knew
p. Genesis 4:25 Heb Sheth
q. Genesis 4:25 Heb shath
r. Genesis 4:25 Lit seed
s. Genesis 4:26 Or by


Gen 4:23-24
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
KJV



to my wounding, לְפִצְעִ֔י is a noun derived from the verb פָּצַץ to injure. The (לְ ) is indeed the preposition 'to'; but with a verbal noun such as this, the (לְ ) forms the equivalent of a gerund infinative.

to my hurt לְחַבֻּרָתִֽי is a noun derived from the verb חֲבַל to hurt

The sense here may be understood as
'I have slain a man thereby wounding myself, even a young man causing me hurt.

At first glance Lamech comes accross as very arrogant; but on second look may seem more reasonable.

If Lamech is saying: 'If Cain, who killed intentionially will be avenged sevenfold; surely I, who killed accidentally will be revenged 77 fold'; he may simply be relying on God's justice.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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And Abel was a keeper of flocks...
Abel is a keeper of flocks... humans are eating plants at this time... sounds like there are only four people alive at this time... four peeps could only wear so many animal skins... was there another use for the animals?
 
Jun 28, 2015
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Abel is a keeper of flocks... humans are eating plants at this time... sounds like there are only four people alive at this time... four peeps could only wear so many animal skins... was there another use for the animals?
Common misconception. All humans were not vegetarians prior to the great flood. God just temporarily forbade them from eating flesh on the ark so that the animals would live to reproduce.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Common misconception. All humans were not vegetarians prior to the great flood. God just temporarily forbade them from eating flesh on the ark so that the animals would live to reproduce.
on the sixth day of creation, it sure sounds to me like God gives plants to humans (and animals) to eat...

so the ground being cursed is a big problem for humans...

after the flood, God gives animals for humans to eat, too...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
here are my thoughts about the story of cain and abel...

it is worth noticing that eve gives God credit for the birth of cain...children are a gift from God...

there is a lot of debate over the reason why abel's sacrifice was accepted and cain's sacrifice was not...many people assume cain's sacrifice was rejected because it was not a blood sacrifice...however we can see later in the torah that not all offerings had to be blood sacrifices...for example there was a firstfruit offering where it would have been perfectly fine to offer vegetables if they were the firstfruits of your work that year...and i believe there is reason to believe that cain's offering actually was a firstfruit offering...

1 john 3:12 is evidently referring to the offerings when it says that cain murdered his brother because his deeds were evil and his brother's deeds were righteous... also hebrews tells us that it was by faith that abel made a better offering... so here in genesis 4 we actually have an object lesson in righteousness by faith...abel's offering was accepted as a righteous deed because of his faith...on the other hand cain's offering was not brought in faith and so God considered it to be an evil deed...

some christians have also supposed that abel brought his best and cain just brought whatever...we cannot be dogmatic because the text doesn't say this flat out although it can be taken as implied based on some english translations...still it would make sense that an offering made in faith would be more carefully selected than an offering made in hypocrisy...but again it was faith and not offering quality that was the real issue...

it is also noteworthy that the text indicates that God rejected -both- cain -and- his offering...and God's rejection of cain is mentioned first...so the problem was with cain more than with the offering itself...the offering was not accepted because cain himself was not accepted...

it is another example of God's love that he spoke to cain even after rejecting him and his offering...although God was not happy with cain...God still loved him enough to try to lead him back to the right path...

the image of sin 'crouching at your door' is an interesting one...i used to think this was something like an animal waiting to attack...but now based on other word choices in the context i believe the image is of sin as a kidnapper lying in wait outside someone's door...when the person leaves the safety of their house the kidnapper captures them and forces them into slavery...this was an all too common occurrence in ancient times... so what we are getting here is the old testament version of the new testament picture of an unsaved person as a slave to sin...

God's encouragement to cain to master sin instead of being owned by it shows us that sin can be overcome...

after cain murders abel God comes to cain with a conversation very similar to the one he had with adam in the garden of eden...God begins with a question that he clearly already knows the answer to...as usual God is not asking for his own information...instead he wants to lead cain to confession and repentance...

cain's response of course is very similar to adam's...namely one of irresponsibility...he rhetorically insinuates that he is not responsible for the life of his brother... of course tells us elsewhere in scripture to love our neighbor...and that means a certain degree of responsibility for their wellbeing...

we see another example of God's love after God curses cain to wander the earth... cain is dismayed and expresses to God that he fears for his life...so God mercifully provides a sign or mark for cain to assure him of divine protection... how wonderfully loving of God that he -still- watches over the lives of sinners!

well the sin in the garden of eden is still fresh in our memory at this point in genesis yet it has not taken long for sin to increase to where we now see history's first murder...but that is how sin works...like an avalanche it multiplies exponentially until it permeates everything...which is a good reason to avoid all sin in the first place!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Abel is a keeper of flocks... humans are eating plants at this time... sounds like there are only four people alive at this time... four peeps could only wear so many animal skins... was there another use for the animals?
i am guessing abel kept flocks of both sheep and goats... the wool of the sheep would have been useful for all kinds of things that required cloth...not just clothing but also blankets... and in ancient times goat hair was commonly used for making tents...
 
Jan 19, 2013
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It boggles my mind how the eternal God speaks forth His eternal Word and what it creates is finite.
Or to put it in other terms, God is spirit, yet what is created has measureable clunkiness (mass, weight, distance etc.).

It's almost as if His creating is a type of the Incarnation.
All I can get is my nose under the veil regarding man being the glory of God, the crown of spirit God's creation to mirror himself personally in physical matter, and then of all matter and energy being patterned on his spiritual order.

That the non-physical, spirit God has made physical matter (man) into a mirror of himself gives much pause for much reflection, and establishes the "sanctity" (set apartness) of human life.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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it is another example of God's love that he spoke to cain even after rejecting him and his offering...
very true! and again we see that God can be around sinful people... and that it's cain that leaves the presence of God.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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i am guessing abel kept flocks of both sheep and goats... the wool of the sheep would have been useful for all kinds of things that required cloth...not just clothing but also blankets... and in ancient times goat hair was commonly used for making tents...
good point... at the same time, there's only four people alive here... wool and goat hair stuff would last a long time, imo... how many tents and blankets can they need?
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
good point... at the same time, there's only four people alive here... wool and goat hair stuff would last a long time, imo... how many tents and blankets can they need?
well God did tell them to be fruitful and multiply...so possibly they were preparing for more people in the future...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
another thing i can think of is that in genesis 1 humans were given dominion over creation...and God created some animals specifically to be raised by humans...so abel may have simply been taking care of his part of the dominion without any particular demand for its products...
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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well God did tell them to be fruitful and multiply...so possibly they were preparing for more people in the future...
very possible... though I would think that a person would probably wait until the other people were born... since there's many years between birth and needing your own tent...

meanwhile, adam and cain (maybe eve too) are out there trying to eek out a living from bad soil... maybe that's another reason there was tension between abel and cain...
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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...and God created some animals specifically to be raised by humans...
why do you say that? my understanding is that the animals we see on farms today were very capable of handling themselves in the wild...

yes, the cows of today have had all their agressiveness bred out of them... by humans, I think... but their ancestors were a lot 'meaner'...

probably something like the bison... they were handling wolves etc just fine... it was guns they couldn't deal with... imo...
 
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bondservant

Guest
Is it possible that Cain offered up the work of his hands but able offered up what the Lord provided? Also that Cain became jealous of able being the older brother and it grew into a fit of rage....just thinking
 
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tanach

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If you are really serious about studying the Torah I recommend a book called A Year Through The Torah, A Week by Week Journey for Christians by John J Parsons. It comes with a supporting CD and takes you through the Synagogue readings and the Festivals. It also has NT readings as well. It is very informative. It is an American publication. I got a copy through Amazon because you cant seem to buy it in a UK bookshop.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
why do you say that? my understanding is that the animals we see on farms today were very capable of handling themselves in the wild...

yes, the cows of today have had all their agressiveness bred out of them... by humans, I think... but their ancestors were a lot 'meaner'...

probably something like the bison... they were handling wolves etc just fine... it was guns they couldn't deal with... imo...
my view is based on genesis 1:24-25 where God names 'cattle' as a separate class of animal...distinct from 'beasts of the earth' and 'creeping things'...

i take this to mean that God created these 'cattle' animals with the specific intent for them to be domesticated by humans...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
Is it possible that Cain offered up the work of his hands but able offered up what the Lord provided? Also that Cain became jealous of able being the older brother and it grew into a fit of rage....just thinking
that is another way of looking at it...although i think we can make too much of the difference...after all herding sheep is also a lot of work...and much of the process of farming also depends on the lord's provision...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
here are my comments on cain's exile and the cainite genealogy at the end of genesis 4...

the text says that cain went out from the presence of the lord...although God did curse cain to be a wanderer i don't see anywhere that God specifically forbade cain from his presence...it appears that departing from the presence of the lord was cain's own choice...


in martin luther's series of lectures on genesis he interpreted the names of each of cain's descendants...since ancient hebrew names often had literally significant meanings luther suggested that each of cain's descendants had a name that suggested the historical trends of his time...i am going to summarize luther's interpretations here...also mixed in a bit with my own thoughts...

cain named his son enoch...the name enoch means 'initiation' or 'dedication'...by naming his son enoch cain indicated his desire to initiate a new beginning and that he was content to start over outside the presence of God... cain's act of building a city and naming it enoch after his son also shows cain's desire to initiate a new beginning to a civilization of his own design apart from the will of God...

i should add that the hebrew for 'city' here need not mean some kind of ancient metropolitan community or even a town for that matter...the hebrew term is broad enough to encompass even something like a small fixed encampment...the primary nuance of the root word's meaning is that it would have been guarded by someone keeping watch...most likely cain himself...

of course for cain to feel the need to keep a watch over his small 'city' in a world with a population still in the single digits exposes more of the paranoia we saw in cain earlier in the chapter when he immediately feared that someone would kill him in his wanderings...

luther was uncertain about the meaning of the name of enoch's son irad...his best guess which he acknowledged as a guess was that the hebrew name was related to the name of the city ai in the book of joshua...in which case the name would signify a 'heap'... following up on cain's name which meant 'acquisition' it is possible that irad's name expressed his father's desire that he would be able to 'heap up' acquisitions and material wealth...in other words a desire to seek fulfillment through worldly possessions rather than through a relationship with God... going further luther argued that the name irad had the connotation of a heap that 'comes down'...to paraphrase luther's reasoning into more modern terms he supposed that this name exposed a mindset of 'he will die but at least he will die rich!'

irad named his son mehujael...luther understood this name to be a compound of 'machah' meaning 'to destroy' and 'yaal' meaning 'he began' or 'he dared'... luther's interpretation was that this name meant that having acquired significant earthly prosperity in the time of irad it now entered the minds of cain's descandants to dare to attempt direct opposition against the people of God...

mehujael's son was named methushael...luther took this name to be a combination of 'muth' or 'death' and 'shaal' meaning 'ask for' or 'demand'... luther suggested that this name meant that cain's descendants now openly sought the death of God's people... speculatively this might indicate the outbreak of a major persecution or even a war of extermination against the godly line...

methushael named his son lamech...which luther derived from the hebrew 'makhakh' meaning 'to humble' or 'diminish' or 'suppress'...possibly naming his son lamech was methushael's satisified expression of success...a boast that he had humbled and diminished and suppressed the people of God... it is likely that lamech's time was contemporary with the 'days of noah' when only a handful of people were left following God...


lamech was the first polygamist in the bible...more likely polygamy began not as an act of lust but as a further development of the cainite desire for acquisition of worldly wealth...more wives tended to mean more children and in the ancient world children were often a means to wealth...

the names in lamech's family agree with this...the name of his first wife 'adah' means 'adorned' and probably she was adorned with lots of jewelry...the name of lamech's second wife 'zillah' means 'her shadow'...possibly referring to eyeshadow...and might suggest that she was a lover of elaborate makeup...

according to luther the names of adah's two sons jabal and jubal were both variants of the same root that meant 'raised'...these names expressed lamech's continued desire to be raised up by worldly increase... the name of zillah's son tubal-cain mirrors the name of his ancestor cain himself and means 'produce wealth'...his sister naamah's name signifies 'pleasing' or 'beautiful'

the text tells us that all of lamech's sons pursued various means of comfort and gain...jabal was the originator of the herding lifestyle of traveling encampments surrounded by vast herds of livestock...jubal was the inventor of stringed and wind instruments...tubal-cain was a master of advanced metallurgical techniques who even became proficient in the working of iron which did not come into widespread use again in post flood times until a thousand years after the flood...

the bible tells us about one more incident in the life of lamech...as he recounts in poetry to his wives he is a vengeful murderer...having killed merely to pay back a young man for striking and wounding him... lamech even dares to compare his vengeance with the justice of God...bragging that while God could only promise cain sevenfold vengeance...lamech could impose by his own hands a vengeance seventy-seven times over...

after reviewing the history of the cainites it is no surprise that the story of noah relates that the earth was filled with violence!


chapter four closes by returning to the history of God's people...

we don't know how long after the death of abel this took place...but at some point adam and eve had another child who they named seth...'seth' means 'appointed' or 'substituted'...unlike the arrogant and materialistic names of the cainites this naming gives credit to God...

seth would have a son named enosh...the name 'enosh' means 'mortal' and indicates an acknowledgment of the mortal nature of human beings...it appears that the godly line was not given over to the habit of deluding themselves...

finally the text says that in the time of enosh people began to call upon the name of the lord...the hebrew for 'call upon' also means 'call by' and so this term encompasses all forms of right worship...including prayer and praise and the calling of sinners to repentance and faith...in the new testament peter would involve enosh's descendant noah in these activities when he calls him a 'preacher of righteousness'