TRIBULATION LIE

[tanakh]

It is strange that that Pre Tribbers spend so much time studying Revelation and related passages when they appear so convinced that they wont be around to see any of it. Is it a sign that God is trying to tell them something?

 

[Ahwatukee]

It is strange that that Pre Tribbers spend so much time studying Revelation and related passages when they appear so convinced that they wont be around to see any of it. Is it a sign that God is trying to tell them something?

Yes, it is a sign tanakh, but not a sign inferring that the church will go through God's wrath, but to warn the rest of the unbelieving world that the wrath of God is coming and that the only way to avoid it is to receive Christ and repent. Who else is going to tell the world?

“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

 

[Ahwatukee]

Too much to address in one post, but you did not prove your point.
First--- Rev. 3:10 is addressed to the church at Sardis, not to todays Christians

First off, Rev.3:10 does not address the church of Sardis, but Philadelphia. And second, the promise is to that generation of believers who are here just prior to the time of that "hour of trial." Obviously, the original church of Philadelphia of that time is long gone and therefore Jesus' promise could not possibly be regarding them, for the "hour of trial" is still future. Therefore it is to those types of the church of Philadelphia existing just prior to the hour of trial and to all believers who endure patiently. If you will notice at the end of each letter to the churches it says, "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches." Therefore, the promises made in each of the letters to the churches is to everyone who overcomes.

Second---Yes, we will escape God's wrath, but the seals and trumps are not God's wrath. They are the great tribulation that Jesus said would come. And Rev. 6:17 is not the announcement of God's wrath.

You have no idea what you are talking about! The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are indeed how God is going to carry His wrath out. Jesus identified the great tribulation as beginning when that abomination is set up and represents the last 3 1/2 years. The seals, trumpets and bowls will have begun before the middle of the seven years and will be upon all of the inhabitants of the earth. By the way, God's wrath is mentioned in the seals (Rev.6:17), the trumpets (Rev.11:18) and the bowl judgments (Rev.15:1). The announcement of that "the great day of their wrath has come" is in the Greek aorist tense which is referring to God's wrath in its entirety.

Third---You complete ignore II Thess. 2:3 & 4 when you say the church will be raptured before the first seal.

And you ignore Paul's change from "the appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to him" to his mention of "the day of the Lord," which is the time of God's' wrath, which follows the Lord's appearing and our being gathered.

I ignore nothing, as I have gone over these scripture many times and continue to do so. In fact, if you continued to read on, you would see that the One who is restraining (Holy Spirit) must be taken out of the way (and the church with Him) and then the man of lawlessness will be revealed. So the order is as follows:

* The appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to him

* The rebellion

* The man of lawlessness is revealed

* The day of the Lord (that day)

 

[dcontroversal]

Tribulation--thilipsis---persecution, pressure, trouble, trials, put the squeeze on

Wrath---Orge---fiery indignation of God

Through MUCH tribulation we must enter the KINGDOM of GOD

We are NOT appointed UNTO WRATH, but to OBTAIN salvation

UNTIL the above two words are honestly applied and the fact that the wrath of GOD is announced at the 7th trump, in heaven, before the throne as BEING HERE the imminent returners will continue to peddle an incorrect view.

 

[dcontroversal]

DANIEL and Revelation both teach

a. WAR made on the saints by the beast/little horn for 3.5 years
b. Saints of God wore out by the beast/little horn for 3.5 years
c. Saints overcome by the beast/little horn for 3.5 years
d. SAINTS killed by beast/little horn for refusing the mark

The bible is clear and the saints/elect are identified as the saved, immersed church members as evidenced by Paul's letters....

The above "a-d" cannot be true if they have been yanked out before the great tribulation of spoken of by JESUS in MATTHEW 24, LUKE 21 and MARK 13

JESUS was clear....AFTER the GREAT tribulation of THOSE days, the SUN going dark, the MOON not giving her light and the STARS falling from HEAVEN the ANGELS (reapers for Christ see parable of the wheat and tares) are SENT to gather the ELECT (SAVED) from one end of the earth to the other and the UTTERMOST part of HEAVEN

AFTER the GREAT tribulation and PRE-WRATH

 

[dcontroversal]

IMMINENT returners push some magical, invisible return of Christ where we all go POOF and disappear en masse and EVERYONE wonders where we went....WRONG

Disciples in ACTS
LOST RELIGIOUS
EVERY EYE
EVERY TONGUE
EVERY NATION
ALL the TRIBES of the EARTH

ALL the above will SEE him come in power and great GLORY with the clouds of HEAVEN

THERE is NOT 2 comings (PAROUSIA) of JESUS but ONE...all things must JIVE with 1 RETURN

WAS
IS and
IS TO COME

PAROUSIA=BODY PRESENCE

 

[dcontroversal]

PAUL told the THESSALONIAN assembly that THEY were not in DARKNESS that that day should over take them as A THIEF (context is the resurrection/change)

In 2nd THESSALONANS 2, he states clearly that the COMING of JESUS, THAT IS TO SAY our GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM SHALL NOT COME UNTIL

THE man of SIN is revealed SITTING on the THRONE claiming to BE GOD and worshipped AS GOD.

NO ONE will be "raptured" until this takes place as well......see post 725