Trinity, lets make sense of it

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Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,171
2,318
113
#1
The trinity is a confusing subject to many, no doubt about that. If you do a search you will find a ton of questions about the trinity from Christians and non-christians alike.
We have many different explanations for it. Like water ice and steam. The egg-shell, and the football illustrations.

If someone were to ask me if I believe in the trinity, I would say yes. And I have. But then as we started conversing I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.

Here again is my view of it and how I explain it, so someone can tell me what "ism" im in: I believe in the Godhead. One God. We are made in God's image and we are a body/soul/spirit. How this would work with the Godhead is: Father = Soul, Jesus = body, Holy Spirit = Spirit.
I think its a great and simple way to explain it, if anyone can show me wrong from scripture i'll change my view obviously in a heart beat. I like it because I dont need extra-biblical catholic philosophical ideas and words added to scriptures like "persons" or "essences" or anything like that. Thats just too complicated in my opinion.

Its easy to find verses that prove the deity of Jesus. But its impossible to find a single verse that "proves" the trinity. Which is exactly my problem with it, if its that important God would surely have mentioned it, and there should have been a big controversy among the jews for it. But Paul never writes about it, thats why I believe the "Godhead" would be a proper and biblical word to use instead. This bothers me because when witnessing to people the trinity almost ALWAYS comes up, especially when talking to muslims, OY VEY!

What do YOU personally, believe about the trinity, how would you explain it? If you even believe in it. And if you dont, show scripture why not.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#2
I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.
If not mistaken, a modalist is one who believes in three manifestations of one God, instead of three personages of God, being seperate and distinct from each other yet all having one nature, as setforth by the Catholic doctrine.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#3
We have many different explanations for it. Like water ice and steam.
A modalist says that liquid water, ice and steam are three different manifestations of one drop of H20.

A trinitarian says that liquid water, ice and steam are three different forms of H20 all having the same nature one drop of H20.

I would say that liquid water, ice and steam are three different molecules of H20 having different forms having different natures since the three molecules of water can not exist at the same time at the same place.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,973
5,717
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#4
By Another: A lot of Christian believers have difficulty when it comes to explaining the Trinity, how we worship a God Who is triune, He is absolutely one in His incorporeal, spiritual essence, but three in personhood. That is why we say that God is Spirit, He is the invisible God, although He has the ability to manifest in physical, human form and take on genuine flesh.

God is the omnipotent, omniscient, all-wise, invisible, Divine essence. Emanating from this essence within are three distinct minds: the minds of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These minds are all distinct from one another, and these minds constitute three Persons. The fullness of Deity is co-equally accessed by each Person, which is why we say they are each individually God, but the Persons are not each other.

You can also check this out: https://www.theopedia.com/eternal-generation-of-the-son
I had trouble with your gibberish trying to explain something that most of us wouldn't understand if God drew us a picture map. So I went to the website listed for clarification.

The Father brings forth the Son by the act of being God, not by an act of will, so that the Son fully shares in the Father's deity and glory as God. There has never been, nor is it possible for there to be, any God and Father without the Son.

God is an absolutely simple being. There are not three gods. There are not three Lords. There are not three parts of God. Rather, there are three who are Lord, three who are God, three who are One. The Father is not changed by being Father to the Son; Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God eternally. The Son is not divided from the Father by being the Son; the Son is as near to the Father as the Father is to himself. There is distinction among the divine Persons, but there is no separation.
Clarification is not what I found. I don't profess to understand just how the Godhead fits together. It is more complex than man's perception. I mean omnipresence: just how is that achieved. Too much for my head.

Anyway, what I did find on that website were stark errors. The red text above: just what scripture did you deduce this from? How do we know how the Word came into being? The same goes for the orange text. How did you ever learn this? Both statements seem so wrong. I'm sure there is no scripture to explain.

When I finally got to the purple text, I just quit trying to see the point. All of the text presented is just wrong. You have not figured out a trinity. Better go back to Nicaea and start over.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#5
A modalist says that liquid water, ice and steam are three different manifestations of one drop of H20.

A trinitarian says that liquid water, ice and steam are three different forms of H20 all having the same nature one drop of H20.

I would say that liquid water, ice and steam are three different molecules of H20 having different forms having different natures since the three molecules of water can not exist at the same time at the same place.
I like the answer, though why do you not think a liquid, solid and gas form of water can’t exist at the same time in the same place. I’m just thinking on an iceberg floating in a ocean on a planet with evaporation happening at the same time the iceberg and ocean exist.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,411
547
113
#6
The trinity is a confusing subject to many, no doubt about that. If you do a search you will find a ton of questions about the trinity from Christians and non-christians alike.
We have many different explanations for it. Like water ice and steam. The egg-shell, and the football illustrations.

If someone were to ask me if I believe in the trinity, I would say yes. And I have. But then as we started conversing I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.

Here again is my view of it and how I explain it, so someone can tell me what "ism" im in: I believe in the Godhead. One God. We are made in God's image and we are a body/soul/spirit. How this would work with the Godhead is: Father = Soul, Jesus = body, Holy Spirit = Spirit.
I think its a great and simple way to explain it, if anyone can show me wrong from scripture i'll change my view obviously in a heart beat. I like it because I dont need extra-biblical catholic philosophical ideas and words added to scriptures like "persons" or "essences" or anything like that. Thats just too complicated in my opinion.

Its easy to find verses that prove the deity of Jesus. But its impossible to find a single verse that "proves" the trinity. Which is exactly my problem with it, if its that important God would surely have mentioned it, and there should have been a big controversy among the jews for it. But Paul never writes about it, thats why I believe the "Godhead" would be a proper and biblical word to use instead. This bothers me because when witnessing to people the trinity almost ALWAYS comes up, especially when talking to muslims, OY VEY!

What do YOU personally, believe about the trinity, how would you explain it? If you even believe in it. And if you dont, show scripture why not.
There is only One God and that is an end to it. Like you and me, we are made in the image of God when all said and done, and we are Body, Soul, and Spirit, the same as God. There are not three of me, or three of you are there! We are One person, body, soul, and spirit.

I think the TV program "Undercover Boss" illustrates it very well. There is ONE boss, regardless of where he is or what he is doing. Whether he "came down" to be one of the workers or whether he is sitting "up there" in his grand office controlling operations, the Boss is still ONE in His domain, the same as God is ONE in His domain.

Those who deny Jesus is God on earth are like those who say the new apprentice is not the Boss. They are in for a rude awakening, and are on a hiding to nothing if they "bad mouth" the Boss to his face wherever He may be and whatever He may be doing.

People need to be careful what they say about Jesus, because they are saying it about God, and in the last days Jesus will say to them, "Depart from me, for I never knew you."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,411
547
113
#7
.....Clarification is not what I found. I don't profess to understand just how the Godhead fits together. It is more complex than man's perception. I mean omnipresence: just how is that achieved. Too much for my head.

Anyway, what I did find on that website were stark errors. The red text above: just what scripture did you deduce this from? How do we know how the Word came into being? The same goes for the orange text. How did you ever learn this? Both statements seem so wrong. I'm sure there is no scripture to explain.

When I finally got to the purple text, I just quit trying to see the point. All of the text presented is just wrong. You have not figured out a trinity. Better go back to Nicaea and start over.
I am omnipresent in my room. God has a bigger room that's all.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
27,469
5,929
113
#8
The Persons of God are relational in the same way me being a daughter, or sister, or cousin, or aunt, wife, friend, or foe (etc) are relational. I am the same person no mater who is interacting with me but the interactions differ in ways that are dependent upon the relationship. Above and beyond any relationship is the simple fact that "I AM" is eternally self existent, and the Source for everything else.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#9
I like the answer, though why do you not think a liquid, solid and gas form of water can’t exist at the same time in the same place. I’m just thinking on an iceberg floating in a ocean on a planet with evaporation happening at the same time the iceberg and ocean exist.
When talking about space I am referring unto the rule that two objects of mass can not occupy the same space at the same time. While an iceberg can float in water while exposed to air, I wouldn't say they were in the same place per say, but maybe in the same area.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,346
664
113
#10
The trinity is a confusing subject to many, no doubt about that. If you do a search you will find a ton of questions about the trinity from Christians and non-christians alike.
We have many different explanations for it. Like water ice and steam. The egg-shell, and the football illustrations.

If someone were to ask me if I believe in the trinity, I would say yes. And I have. But then as we started conversing I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.

Here again is my view of it and how I explain it, so someone can tell me what "ism" im in: I believe in the Godhead. One God. We are made in God's image and we are a body/soul/spirit. How this would work with the Godhead is: Father = Soul, Jesus = body, Holy Spirit = Spirit.
I think its a great and simple way to explain it, if anyone can show me wrong from scripture i'll change my view obviously in a heart beat. I like it because I dont need extra-biblical catholic philosophical ideas and words added to scriptures like "persons" or "essences" or anything like that. Thats just too complicated in my opinion.

Its easy to find verses that prove the deity of Jesus. But its impossible to find a single verse that "proves" the trinity. Which is exactly my problem with it, if its that important God would surely have mentioned it, and there should have been a big controversy among the jews for it. But Paul never writes about it, thats why I believe the "Godhead" would be a proper and biblical word to use instead. This bothers me because when witnessing to people the trinity almost ALWAYS comes up, especially when talking to muslims, OY VEY!

What do YOU personally, believe about the trinity, how would you explain it? If you even believe in it. And if you dont, show scripture why not.
Here’s a handy dandy diagram that should cut through all the confusion my friend...

1545496581542.gif
 
L

LPT

Guest
#11
When talking about space I am referring unto the rule that two objects of mass can not occupy the same space at the same time. While an iceberg can float in water while exposed to air, I wouldn't say they were in the same place per say, but maybe in the same area.
maybe in our galaxy, but surely no human knows the physics in another galaxy could be the same as ours or not then there is the particles in our galaxy with an integer spin (bosons)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,355
3,063
113
#12
If someone were to ask me if I believe in the trinity, I would say yes. And I have. But then as we started conversing I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.
A Modalist believes that the three Persons of the Godhead are simply manifestations of the same God. So sometimes He is the Father, other times He is the Son, and other times the Holy Spirit. As explained by Theopedia:

'Modalism, also called Sabellianism, is the unorthodox belief that God is one person who has revealed himself in three forms or modes in contrast to the Trinitarian doctrine where God is one being eternally existing in three persons. According to Modalism, during the incarnation, Jesus was simply God acting in one mode or role, and the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was God acting in a different mode. Thus, God does not exist as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time.'

However, the Trinity is clearly revealed in Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 (KJV):

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (This is genuine Scripture, so disregard the naysayers)

That they are three distinct Persons at one and the same time is shown in this passage:

MATTHEW 3

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [The voice from Heaven clearly shows that He is the Father]

If after seeing these Scriptures, anyone disputes the existence of the Trinity, then one should leave them alone. They have chosen to disregard the Word of God.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,973
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#13
Here’s a handy dandy diagram that should cut through all the confusion my friend...

View attachment 192243
Your diagram doesn't cut it. You are separating the Holy Spirit from the Father and the son. The Father is the HS and the son is the HS. If you separate any of them they cease to become God.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
10,973
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#14
The Persons of God are relational in the same way me being a daughter, or sister, or cousin, or aunt, wife, friend, or foe (etc) are relational. I am the same person no mater who is interacting with me but the interactions differ in ways that are dependent upon the relationship. Above and beyond any relationship is the simple fact that "I AM" is eternally self existent, and the Source for everything else.
What you are stating is not trinity doctrine, it is modalism. Trinity says God is three separate persons. I feel that simply using the term "person" we are missing real picture. Person means of a son. God isn't of any son. Our labels are not adequate to explain the complex character of God. We need to quit trying to label Him. There is a saying: "You label me, you limit me." :cool:
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,966
299
83
#15
Imo, the trinity or tri-unity just describes the 3 attributes of a single Godhead, the 3 work and have always existed as one entity.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Here,
Elohiym is the plural form of God. Therefore, as scripture was inspired and man began to write the Word, it was evident to the writers that God was made of more than 1 Person but at the same time there was one Godhead.

The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Just as a person thinks, speaks, and acts, God is all knowledge, Christ is the expression and manifestation, and the Spirit is the action and deed. The 3 are united persona's of one entity that best describe the Godhead.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,171
2,318
113
#16
Well the accusations are right. My understanding of the trinity is quite "modalistic" if thats a word.

We are made in the image of God, we have body soul and spirit. There is only One God, comprised of body(Jesus) soul(Father) and spirit(Holy Spirit).

Thats closer to modalist doctrine than catholic trinity imo. Because with the catholic trinity, you got the internal contradictions that are IMPOSSIBLE to explain. The Athanasian creed is also clearly some catholic babble, incomprehensible and contradictory. The creed also mentions over and over again that "you have to hold to the catholic faith" and so on, NOT TRUSTWORTHY to say the least. Here is the real kicker in that creed " And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater," <- in direct contradiction to the Scriptures which state Father is greater than Jesus, Jesus Himself says this. Paul also says that Jesus will deliver up the kingdom to the Father so that God may be in all in all.
So clearly that creed is unbiblical, refuted by Jesus himself.

I only brought it up to differentiate ^that catholic trinity, from what regular christians would call trinity. Which I believe are different, atleast from the illustrations that i've heard from baptists for example.
Like the egg, three layers one egg, kind of deal. Thats much more biblical imo. And easier to explain too
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,171
2,318
113
#17
Imo, the trinity or tri-unity just describes the 3 attributes of a single Godhead, the 3 work and have always existed as one entity.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Here,
Elohiym is the plural form of God. Therefore, as scripture was inspired and man began to write the Word, it was evident to the writers that God was made of more than 1 Person but at the same time there was one Godhead.

The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Just as a person thinks, speaks, and acts, God is all knowledge, Christ is the expression and manifestation, and the Spirit is the action and deed. The 3 are united persona's of one entity that best describe the Godhead.
Great explanation bro! Thanks
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,171
2,318
113
#18
Here’s a handy dandy diagram that should cut through all the confusion my friend...

View attachment 192243
Oy vey. Thats a complete contradiction. :D

Anyone got a sermon on the trinity to explain it in a more simple fashion?
AND can someone point out what exactly is wrong with my understanding of it?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,355
3,063
113
#19
The Father is the HS and the son is the HS.
This is false and heretical.

If the Son was the Holy Spirit, He could not possibly say that He would send the Comforter from the Father after His ascension.

But when the Comforter [THE HOLY SPIRIT] is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (John 15:26)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)

As you can see it is TOTALLY ABSURD to say that the Son is the Holy Spirit. It is equally absurd to say that the Father is the Holy Spirit.

So the real question remains: why do people RESIST the truth of the Trinity and the Deity of Christ? And the only biblical answer is that Satan deceives people into all kinds false beliefs. This is a part of spiritual warfare.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
#20
The trinity is a confusing subject to many, no doubt about that. If you do a search you will find a ton of questions about the trinity from Christians and non-christians alike.
We have many different explanations for it. Like water ice and steam. The egg-shell, and the football illustrations.

If someone were to ask me if I believe in the trinity, I would say yes. And I have. But then as we started conversing I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.

Here again is my view of it and how I explain it, so someone can tell me what "ism" im in: I believe in the Godhead. One God. We are made in God's image and we are a body/soul/spirit. How this would work with the Godhead is: Father = Soul, Jesus = body, Holy Spirit = Spirit.
I think its a great and simple way to explain it, if anyone can show me wrong from scripture i'll change my view obviously in a heart beat. I like it because I dont need extra-biblical catholic philosophical ideas and words added to scriptures like "persons" or "essences" or anything like that. Thats just too complicated in my opinion.

Its easy to find verses that prove the deity of Jesus. But its impossible to find a single verse that "proves" the trinity. Which is exactly my problem with it, if its that important God would surely have mentioned it, and there should have been a big controversy among the jews for it. But Paul never writes about it, thats why I believe the "Godhead" would be a proper and biblical word to use instead. This bothers me because when witnessing to people the trinity almost ALWAYS comes up, especially when talking to muslims, OY VEY!

What do YOU personally, believe about the trinity, how would you explain it? If you even believe in it. And if you dont, show scripture why not.
I know how this topic can lead to a foolish discussion concerning the concept of the " Trinity". As you know the word trinity is not in the bible it is a Theological term to describe what I believe is a Biblical concept. The error is the idea that you or I can fully understand the full Nature of an Infinite God with our limited ability to understand all of God.

When we approach the Divine Nature of God we MUST COME Humbly and reverently. Gen chapter one verse 1" in the Beginning God"

Here we as men have in the word of God In the Beginning of creation God was and is the self-existent one. The First Cause uncaused.

As we continue IN Gen 1 we see also in verse 2 " The Spirit of God ". The name for the Holy Spirit which describes another personality or what is known as "personification" of another yet still the same as. The distinction between and the sameness of the two is seen throughout the full Bible. Yet in Gen chapter 1 no one can get full understanding of this description of the Living God by two verses.



here we have God and the Spirit of God Gen 1:1-2

Let's go to John chapter 1

verse 1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." KJV

Here we see the " In the Beginning was the Word (logos) and the logos was with God and the logos was God

This speaks of the eternal existence of the Spirit of Christ which has always existed with the Father as we see in Gen 1 and John 1
God the creator
Spirit of God
and now the Logos = The word of God = Christ

The human intelect cannot comprehend the full nature of God. We can only apprehend as the word of God and the Holy Spirit enables us to do so.

we see in scripture three distinct personalities of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. each is spoken of in scripture.

we see Jesus who said me and my Father are one (face to face) John 10:30 " I and my father are one.KJV

John 14:7 "
“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen him.”NKJV


rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The GodHead found in Acts 17, Col 2:9, and Rom 1:29 speak of the Divine nature of the one true God in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. they are described, yet cannot be fully understood.

The error by so many is they think it is the requirement to make one agree with the Trinity or the Oneness of Christ.

The Godhead is given to prove the supernature unexplainable, almighty self-existent God who has expressed Himself in three wonder ways that we, in our attempts to do so; fall short.

God is one and HE is three yet still one why
because HE chooses to be so.