Trinity...

[Dmurray]

1. Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
2. Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
3. Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes.
4. Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity.
5. Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-I John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, "These three are one."
6. Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; I Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; I Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
7. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16.
8. Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9)? Because Jesus is the express image of God's person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for personin this verse literally means "substance."
10. Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
11. Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. II Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
12. Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
13. Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
14. Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; II Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent.
15. Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
16. When God said, "Let us make man in our image" (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
17. How many of God's qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
18. How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
19. Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8
20. Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
21. Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18
22. How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
23. If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
24. Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10
25. Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
26. Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14.
27. For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
28. Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. I Timothy 3:16.
29. Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
30. Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
32. Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
33. How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (I Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
34. Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
35. Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
36. What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8.
37. What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
38. How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
39. How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.
40. Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
41. Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
42. Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
43. Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
44. Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
45. Is Jesus the true God? Yes. I John 5:20.
46. If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ? Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, II Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; I Corinthians 3:16.
47. When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? "I am Jesus." Acts 9:5.
48. When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59.
49. Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
50. How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, "Beside me there is no Savior?" Because "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." II Corinthians 5:19.
51. Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
52. Did Jesus ever say, "I and my Father are one?" Yes. John 10:30.
53. Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
54. Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
55. Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; I Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
56. Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present--Jesus Christ the Lord.
57. Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
58. What did the voice say at Jesus' baptism? "Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
59. Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; I John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
60. The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (I Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back--our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
*Taken from the Word Aflame Tract "60 Questions on the Godhead with Bible answers" #6125"

taken from upci.org

 

[angelos]

so when jesus says only the father knows the hour of his return... is he saying that he doesnt know when he is going to return unless he is the father but if he were to become the son then he would not know so then would he ever come back to earth if he can only know the hour while he is the father and not know when he returns as the son because if he doesnt know in the form of the son then perhaps he isnt going to come back.

 

[Dmurray]

so when jesus says only the father knows the hour of his return... is he saying that he doesnt know when he is going to return unless he is the father but if he were to become the son then he would not know so then would he ever come back to earth if he can only know the hour while he is the father and not know when he returns as the son because if he doesnt know in the form of the son then perhaps he isnt going to come back.

I don't know. but I know Jesus said "I and my father are one" I'm new still, but I know God is one.

 

[angelos]

trinity = tri unity = 3 in 1 not one in 3 modes. As your previous post said in the baptism in john's gospel the son and the holy spirit existed at the same time showing that the son and the spirit existed at the same time in 2 different personas

 

[Dmurray]

God is omni-present. He can be everywheres all the time.

Watch the debate on youtube.

 

[angelos]

no im not going to watch the debate and if he can do whatever he likes then he can also be a trinity

 

[Dmurray]

The Lord thy God is ONE LORD

 

[angelos]

Yes he is one and 3 distinct parts at the same time we also see when jesus was praying the garden remember jesus prayed and if he is god who is he praying to? another god? during that prayer he asked the father to take this cup from him nevertheless not my will but your will

 

[Servantofiam]

17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Jesus says the Spirit of truth will be in them, but right now He dwells with them, It is Jesus who dwells with them and Jesus says HE will come to them. Jesus is clearly saying He is the Spirit. Also He says He will not leave them orphans, the only way He could keep that promise is if He becomes their Father.

Fun fact: the number one in Hebrew gematria which is used when it is said that God is one, means Unity

 

[angelos]

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
The way i read that passage he is saying he will ask the father to send the spirit and he will and then he is talking about his crucifixion and then his rising to heaven.

 

[Servantofiam]

I understand how your reading it, when your mind sees that Jesus prays to the Father you istinctly seperate them. I do that to, but I've started to stop myself. Something that you should try to remember, the bible was written for man, so when Jesus prays to the Father it's purpose is also to show us how man should pray and act towards Him. Jesus is not only paying the price for our sins and reconciling ourselves to Him, but He is also showing what a child of God looks like in all matters, from prayer to humility. I think it helps to not get caught up on small phrases and instead try to see the whole picture. When they baptize they baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three names for God are names for the same God. It also helps not to get caught up in the physical Jesus but rather see His Spirit. These help me to come closer to mentaly understanding what my heart already knows

 

[angelos]

yes they are names for the same god but they are also seperate if you read the above problem i mentioned with modalism you can see theres a logical issue with it. you also have in genesis when god said "let US make man in OUR image" showing plurality and no Jesus prayed to the father and said nevertheless not MY will but YOUR will also showing his humanity being subservient to the father

 

[Servantofiam]

Yahweh is plural. It means God, very God. I understand the logic issue only if you use human logic as the highest standard of logic. Again I think the problem arises when we here God say Us when refering to Himself we tend to seperate Him, but we shouldn't because God says He is One. Jesus said He Is God so He is God. Jesus and God can talk about themselves in a plural sense and still remain One being whether it's logical to us or not.

 

[angelos]

They are one being but they exist as 3 different incarnations of that being at the same time. Part of the godhead is human as well with the glorified Christ

 

[Servantofiam]

You really should look at it from the point of view that the bible was written for mankind to understand what God wanted us to understanding. I think if you keep seperating the Father from Jesus when Jesus clearly taught that they were one and the same you will always run into a deadend.

Jn*14:7*"If*you*had*known*Me,*you*would*have*known*My*Father*also;*and*from*now*on*you*know*Him*and*have*seen*Him." they have seen the Father because They have seen Jesus, because Jesus is the Father

 

[angelos]

No thats not true Jesus was the visible image of the invisible god. His other words such as the words I say are not mine but my father's who is in heaven show they have a distinction. However they are the one god in essence

 

[Dmurray]

Father is not a name.
Son is not a name.
Holy Ghost is not a name.

Jesus, however, is a name.

Jesus gave many clues that he is the Father.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

We know God does not share his Glory. Therefore we can take from this that the Father didn't give him the sheep, yet as he says "I and my Father are ONE"

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If God is the word, then the word was made flesh, can we notunderstand that Jesus is the word, and the word is God. Therefore Jesus = God

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus Christ literally means Jehovah Savior. Well Jehovah is God so we could conclude that God saves.

Although Jesus was God, he still would have had to fight off temptations from the devil.
(Mat 4:1-2) In order to overcome temptation he would have to pray and fast just as we have to. Jesus is our example (Joh 13:15) so if he did it then we must as well. If he wouldn’t have prayed then there would be no need for us to pray because he is our example.

The reason he prayed to his “father” in Heaven is because the father represents a relationship between God and humanity. Father represents the creator just as our founding fathers in confederation. It doesn’t mean a literal father, as in one who has helped conceive the child, but the one who has created.

This is the best I'm able to explain why he prays to the father. At this time.

I don't understand how you mean that he is three but one. Can you give me an example? Because it doesn't make sense to me. Thanks.

 

[Servantofiam]

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. Personhood in the Trinity does not match the common Western understanding of "person" as used in the English language—it does not imply an "individual, self-actualized center of free will and conscious activity. To the ancients, personhood "was in some sense individual, but always in community as well. The doctrine states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but one being. Each person is understood as having the one identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures.

 

[angelos]

Father is not a name.
Son is not a name.
Holy Ghost is not a name.

Jesus, however, is a name.

Jesus gave many clues that he is the Father.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

We know God does not share his Glory. Therefore we can take from this that the Father didn't give him the sheep, yet as he says "I and my Father are ONE"

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

If God is the word, then the word was made flesh, can we notunderstand that Jesus is the word, and the word is God. Therefore Jesus = God

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus Christ literally means Jehovah Savior. Well Jehovah is God so we could conclude that God saves.

Although Jesus was God, he still would have had to fight off temptations from the devil.
(Mat 4:1-2) In order to overcome temptation he would have to pray and fast just as we have to. Jesus is our example (Joh 13:15) so if he did it then we must as well. If he wouldn’t have prayed then there would be no need for us to pray because he is our example.

The reason he prayed to his “father” in Heaven is because the father represents a relationship between God and humanity. Father represents the creator just as our founding fathers in confederation. It doesn’t mean a literal father, as in one who has helped conceive the child, but the one who has created.

This is the best I'm able to explain why he prays to the father. At this time.

I don't understand how you mean that he is three but one. Can you give me an example? Because it doesn't make sense to me. Thanks.

to answer your first point yes Jesus is God. When he says the father and I are one it means that they are of the same essence divine yet there is a distinction between the father and the son and the spirit. also Christ isn't part of the name he was given its a title meaning "anointed one"
And I would say that he prays to the father because as a human he had a god which was the father. as the scriptures say "You love justice and hate evil.
Therefore, O God, your God has anointed you,
pouring out the oil of joy on you more than on anyone else. Hebrews 1:9"
and
"The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit in the place of honor at my right hand
until I humble your enemies,
making them a footstool under your feet.” psalms 110:1

 

[Dmurray]

I don't understand how you mean that he is three but one. Can you give me an example? Because it doesn't make sense to me. Thanks.

You still didn't answer my question. Yet passed it off.