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S
I don't know any other way to look at it:
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
I mean.. Is that an honest reading of the text? I am not even commenting on how I interpret it, as it's probably extremely obvious.
Once again words like "Me, Together, Yourself, I, with You"... You can't see the distinct Personhood?
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
I mean.. Is that an honest reading of the text? I am not even commenting on how I interpret it, as it's probably extremely obvious.
Once again words like "Me, Together, Yourself, I, with You"... You can't see the distinct Personhood?
S
Hi Mike,
I'm new so I would like to go slow at first with you if it's alright.
What age range are you?
How long have you known the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
What do the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost mean to you? How do they work in your life. I am will to give you my answer if you wish.
Yes, as far as History goes, The Trinity is pagan, but there is more that goes with the story of how the Trinity begun.
I would love to discuss with you and others.
Let me know.
Love Scalawag
I'm new so I would like to go slow at first with you if it's alright.
What age range are you?
How long have you known the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
What do the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost mean to you? How do they work in your life. I am will to give you my answer if you wish.
Yes, as far as History goes, The Trinity is pagan, but there is more that goes with the story of how the Trinity begun.
I would love to discuss with you and others.
Let me know.
Love Scalawag
S
Sorry this was not directed at me but I need to step in at the falseness of the statement "the trinity is pagan", I have actual quotes from ancient Rabbi's who support the Trinity and it is FAR from goyish.
So once again, the trinity is not pagan and is far from pagan. If you would like quotes from Jewish Rabbi's, sages and even Biblical evidence in the Hebrew scriptures I can provide that for you.
Blessings, may Yeshua bless you!
So once again, the trinity is not pagan and is far from pagan. If you would like quotes from Jewish Rabbi's, sages and even Biblical evidence in the Hebrew scriptures I can provide that for you.
Blessings, may Yeshua bless you!
S
Forgive me , I do not want to appear rude, But I am new,very new , I seem to be making lots of mistakes.
The Holy Spirit joins us together as One, as you and I are one in Spirit, one in belief.
I am being lead to believe that in this verse Jesus is speaking in one accord with his Holy Father. When we are joined by the Holy Spirit all in Christ should speak in one accord. As we touch and agree. Jesus and His Holy Father has always touched an agreed and we follow in their footsteps.
There are other verses that are questioned such as, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." and "Let this cup pass" but it wasn't His Holy Father's Will, yet , Jesus Christ didn't get up from the rock and walk away. Jesus followed His Holy Father's Will. From the Rock to the Cross. They were in one accord. Jesus has to go so the Holy Spirit could come to us and live in the Disciples and us. The Holy Spirit took Jesus's place here on earth.
Love, Sandra
The Holy Spirit joins us together as One, as you and I are one in Spirit, one in belief.
I am being lead to believe that in this verse Jesus is speaking in one accord with his Holy Father. When we are joined by the Holy Spirit all in Christ should speak in one accord. As we touch and agree. Jesus and His Holy Father has always touched an agreed and we follow in their footsteps.
There are other verses that are questioned such as, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." and "Let this cup pass" but it wasn't His Holy Father's Will, yet , Jesus Christ didn't get up from the rock and walk away. Jesus followed His Holy Father's Will. From the Rock to the Cross. They were in one accord. Jesus has to go so the Holy Spirit could come to us and live in the Disciples and us. The Holy Spirit took Jesus's place here on earth.
Love, Sandra
S
Thank you and God Bless you too.
No Trinity isn't Pagans....it was formed along with the other Pagan Reigion...such as the sun god.
I am having a hard time getting names and post together. Thank you for working with me.
There is a book out and it's called " The First Three Hundred years of Christianty". This book goes back to the days when all Religions were being named and formed. Then there were suppose to be three gods. Christianity only had one God. They could not be named with the other Religion pagan and Heathens. So they took the Father, Son and Holy and Holy Ghost to be their three gods. Have you or others ever heard of this book?
I have never found Trinity mention in the Bible. Not in my Older Christian Bible. I will review them again so I can keep up with you. How again, is the Trinity again mention in the Old Testament?. I have a few Bibles older than the King James Bible, so I will check them out again.
I am going to stop posting until tomorrow so I can recheck what I have posted. I want to be able to touch and agree with all I meet...first I will check myself then I will return to you and will see what you have. I never know how the Holy Spirit will lead me. I will consider it an Honor to work with a Jewish person.
Love, Sandra
No Trinity isn't Pagans....it was formed along with the other Pagan Reigion...such as the sun god.
I am having a hard time getting names and post together. Thank you for working with me.
There is a book out and it's called " The First Three Hundred years of Christianty". This book goes back to the days when all Religions were being named and formed. Then there were suppose to be three gods. Christianity only had one God. They could not be named with the other Religion pagan and Heathens. So they took the Father, Son and Holy and Holy Ghost to be their three gods. Have you or others ever heard of this book?
I have never found Trinity mention in the Bible. Not in my Older Christian Bible. I will review them again so I can keep up with you. How again, is the Trinity again mention in the Old Testament?. I have a few Bibles older than the King James Bible, so I will check them out again.
I am going to stop posting until tomorrow so I can recheck what I have posted. I want to be able to touch and agree with all I meet...first I will check myself then I will return to you and will see what you have. I never know how the Holy Spirit will lead me. I will consider it an Honor to work with a Jewish person.
Love, Sandra
Peace be upon you charisenexcelcis,
on your profile page it is written this : and I can't understand how can you say that:
while the bible tells us that The night Jesus was arrested, before his trial and crucifixion, he prayed alone in the Garden of Gethsemane, having asked three of his disciples to wait nearby, praying for him. Luke tells us, "He withdrew about a stone's throw and prayed, 'Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done'" (Luke 22:41-42). Matthew records Jesus as making his request of the Father twice: "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will'" (Matthew 26:39) and "He went away a second time and prayed, 'My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done'" (Matt. 26:42).
and at the end, God knows best ... may He increase us in knowledge and understanding.
Peace
on your profile page it is written this : and I can't understand how can you say that:
while the bible tells us that The night Jesus was arrested, before his trial and crucifixion, he prayed alone in the Garden of Gethsemane, having asked three of his disciples to wait nearby, praying for him. Luke tells us, "He withdrew about a stone's throw and prayed, 'Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done'" (Luke 22:41-42). Matthew records Jesus as making his request of the Father twice: "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will'" (Matthew 26:39) and "He went away a second time and prayed, 'My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done'" (Matt. 26:42).
and at the end, God knows best ... may He increase us in knowledge and understanding.
Peace
Originally Posted by Servantofiam :
and your response was:
In my understanding of the scriptures, God and Jesus Do have different wills.
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will [Math 26:39 ]
Jesus asks permission ''If '' ... the will of Jesus depends on the will of God and it can be achieved only if God will it too. God and Jesus Do have different wills
the will of Jesus was ''may this cup be taken away from me.'' but regarding the way this cup might be taken away, he say '' Yet not as I will, but as you will ''
doesn't that mean that the will of Jesus and God are 2 separate and different one ?
Peace
and your response was:
In my understanding of the scriptures, God and Jesus Do have different wills.
Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken away from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will [Math 26:39 ]
Jesus asks permission ''If '' ... the will of Jesus depends on the will of God and it can be achieved only if God will it too. God and Jesus Do have different wills
the will of Jesus was ''may this cup be taken away from me.'' but regarding the way this cup might be taken away, he say '' Yet not as I will, but as you will ''
doesn't that mean that the will of Jesus and God are 2 separate and different one ?
Peace
C
If you have two omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent beings they cannot oppose one another, they must be of one will. The scripture you quote shows the eternal structure of the trinity, that the Son is always in submission to the Father. It is showing not the disunity of will, but the structure of that unity. It's the difference between will as a noun and will as a verb.