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You mean you wouldn't do it like this "So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls?"
Or like the Ethiopian, who professed faith in Christ, and was immediately baptized?
How long do you think you should wait, since you're not following biblical examples? Or, do you have a passage somewhere that says they should wait a while? Is something "supposed to take" if you wait a while longer?
Or like the Ethiopian, who professed faith in Christ, and was immediately baptized?
How long do you think you should wait, since you're not following biblical examples? Or, do you have a passage somewhere that says they should wait a while? Is something "supposed to take" if you wait a while longer?
sorry..... I disagree completely with this premise. The men at Pentecost asked what they had to do (to be saved), and Peter said basically the same thing Jesus said.... repent, and be baptized. Baptism was understood, correctly, to be immersion in water.
Only those who try to minimize the importance of water baptism would try to imply that Peter was talking about "spiritual baptism".... those Jews at Pentecost had NO concept of that. They KNEW what he was saying.
Only those who try to minimize the importance of water baptism would try to imply that Peter was talking about "spiritual baptism".... those Jews at Pentecost had NO concept of that. They KNEW what he was saying.
Those verses negate the false teaching that water baptism (instead of/or in addition to repentance) obtains the remission of sins.
After properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we discover that it's faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) which brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
In all of these verses, where repentance is in regards to salvation/receiving remission of sins, faith is implied or assumed. In verses where faith is mentioned yet not repentance, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one, you must have the other. Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin of receiving Christ.
The Bible sometimes only mentions repentance as a condition for salvation. One example of this would be Luke 13:3, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." See also Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19 etc.. A few times both repentance and believe/faith are mentioned in the same verse (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). There are many, many verses which only mention belief/faith as the condition for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
Again, when only repentance is mentioned, belief/faith is implied or assumed. When only belief/faith is mentioned, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one you must have the other. If we believe the gospel, then we already repented in the process of changing our mind and choosing to believe the gospel/place faith in Christ for salvation. Not so with baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).
Notice in Acts 11:17, "If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" This is referred to as repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) and repentance/faith was established BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47).
Here we go with more of your faulty human logic.
That is religion that God accepts, in CONTRAST to vain, useless religion. James 1:26 - If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. This man's religion is vain, empty, devoid of power, lacking in content, nonproductive, dead and of no eternal value.
There is nothing wrong with "pure and undefiled religion" but there is certainly something wrong with impure and defiled religion. Also, looking after orphans and widows in their distress and keeping oneself from being polluted by the world is not how one becomes saved, but is how the saved are to live their lives, so your argument is moot.
News flash: *We are not saved by works, so religion that perverts the gospel is not "pure and faultless."
Baptism is for "in regards to/on the basis of" (and not in order to obtain) remission of sins that is received upon repentance (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:4; Acts 2:38) and "faith is implied or assumed" -- Repent (change your mind) new direction of this change of mind (faith in Christ for salvation).
That statement is the epitome of irony.
After properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we discover that it's faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) which brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*
In all of these verses, where repentance is in regards to salvation/receiving remission of sins, faith is implied or assumed. In verses where faith is mentioned yet not repentance, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one, you must have the other. Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin of receiving Christ.
The Bible sometimes only mentions repentance as a condition for salvation. One example of this would be Luke 13:3, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." See also Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19 etc.. A few times both repentance and believe/faith are mentioned in the same verse (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). There are many, many verses which only mention belief/faith as the condition for salvation (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
Again, when only repentance is mentioned, belief/faith is implied or assumed. When only belief/faith is mentioned, repentance is implied or assumed. Where you have one you must have the other. If we believe the gospel, then we already repented in the process of changing our mind and choosing to believe the gospel/place faith in Christ for salvation. Not so with baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18).
Notice in Acts 11:17, "If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" This is referred to as repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) and repentance/faith was established BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47).
Here we go with more of your faulty human logic.
That is religion that God accepts, in CONTRAST to vain, useless religion. James 1:26 - If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. This man's religion is vain, empty, devoid of power, lacking in content, nonproductive, dead and of no eternal value.
There is nothing wrong with "pure and undefiled religion" but there is certainly something wrong with impure and defiled religion. Also, looking after orphans and widows in their distress and keeping oneself from being polluted by the world is not how one becomes saved, but is how the saved are to live their lives, so your argument is moot.
News flash: *We are not saved by works, so religion that perverts the gospel is not "pure and faultless."
Baptism is for "in regards to/on the basis of" (and not in order to obtain) remission of sins that is received upon repentance (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:4; Acts 2:38) and "faith is implied or assumed" -- Repent (change your mind) new direction of this change of mind (faith in Christ for salvation).
That statement is the epitome of irony.
"In verses where faith is mentioned yet not repentance, repentance is implied or assumed"?
"Again, when only repentance is mentioned , belief/faith is implied or assumed"?
"When you have one you must have the other"?
This is your reasoning? This is your theology?
So you and the "trust only" sects have decided what should be assumed/implied with these scriptures. When a scripture commands belief before the remission of sins, repentance is assumed to be commanded but not baptism. Did God tell you this?
You are simply cherry-picking verses that do not mention baptism, you then attempt to explain away the lack of belief or repentance by saying, "well it's assumed". Why not assume that baptism was expected but not mentioned as well? After all it would be a fair assumption since every conversion after the resurrection of Jesus Christ included it? Many people on this thread have mentioned how intertwined baptism is with the moment of salvation, lets just assume it is mandatory for salvation.
Belief, repentance and baptism are distinct. One cannot assume that one exists because of the others.
I have seen you use this faulty human logic on Mark 16:16. Since Jesus does not mention the lack of baptism as a cause of condemnation we can safely assume His words earlier in the same verse are meaningless. Yeah, that's good logic.
"Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, if ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." John 8:31 KJV
This verse states that these people "believed on him" (not mental assent of his existence) but believed on him but were not His disciples! None of your assumptions can change this.
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Is this the old Acts 2:38 argument?
If so, then once again........folks gotta READ the Scripture correctly.
repent........and be baptized.....for the remission of sins.......
Now, question is, WHY is one being baptized?
1) To have their sins forgiven?
2) Because their sins were forgiven?
When one repents, comes to Christ, His precious blood is applied, and they are cleansed of all their sins......AND to show the CHURCH and the WORLD that they have become a disciple of Christ, they are WATER baptized.....water baptism is nothing more than a SYMBOLIC ACT which serves as the first act of obedience to Christ who told folks to be baptized. Neither the CHURCH nor the WORLD can SEE the cleansing, saving, baptism of the Spirit through the precious blood of Christ, SO water baptism REVEALS to both this wondrous act from the grace of God.
To show how the Scripture can be revealed in it's meaning, consider this;
Repent and jump for joy
Question: Is one jumping to receive joy, or is one jumping because when they repented they received joy? Pretty simple stuff, and it amazes me how so many folks can not grasp the simplicity of the Scripture.
Oh well, and the debate/argument will continue until Christ returns to END all of these debates/arguments.......
If so, then once again........folks gotta READ the Scripture correctly.
repent........and be baptized.....for the remission of sins.......
Now, question is, WHY is one being baptized?
1) To have their sins forgiven?
2) Because their sins were forgiven?
When one repents, comes to Christ, His precious blood is applied, and they are cleansed of all their sins......AND to show the CHURCH and the WORLD that they have become a disciple of Christ, they are WATER baptized.....water baptism is nothing more than a SYMBOLIC ACT which serves as the first act of obedience to Christ who told folks to be baptized. Neither the CHURCH nor the WORLD can SEE the cleansing, saving, baptism of the Spirit through the precious blood of Christ, SO water baptism REVEALS to both this wondrous act from the grace of God.
To show how the Scripture can be revealed in it's meaning, consider this;
Repent and jump for joy
Question: Is one jumping to receive joy, or is one jumping because when they repented they received joy? Pretty simple stuff, and it amazes me how so many folks can not grasp the simplicity of the Scripture.
Oh well, and the debate/argument will continue until Christ returns to END all of these debates/arguments.......
The ONLY WAY sins are remitted/forgiven......water DON'T DO IT
The Precious Blood of Jesus
Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
The Precious Blood of Jesus
Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
The "old Acts 2:38 argument" ??? so now, using scripture to prove your argument is silly?
There are many more scriptures, if you need me to post them again... but I'm sure you've seen them before.
This whole "when does a person become 'saved' " argument is silly. "What was the EXACT moment you were saved" Who cares?
the salvation plan was this..... that you hear the gospel.. the good news about Jesus and his sacrifice for us. You are "pricked in your heart", and believe in him, and you accept the gift of salvation (it's free, you know?) and accept Jesus as your savior, and you, in obedience, are baptized... immersed in water, which symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of our Savior.
You are resurrected from the death of your old life, and you come out of the water (are born again) a new creation... a baby, in Christ, and you begin your life as a believer/follower of Jesus.
this is the simple plan God laid out for us.... every step of that plan MEANS something, and every part of it is essential.
At what EXACT point are you saved? IT DOESN'T MATTER..... unless you are determined to find a way to "do it your way" and reject one of those events simply because you don't see the need for it.
That's Pharisaical in the extreme... tithing mint and cumin. Understand the salvation plan, and follow it, without all the parsing and twisting words.... live in obedience to our Lord.
so now, using scripture to prove your argument is silly? There are many more scriptures, if you need me to post them again... but I'm sure you've seen them before.
This whole "when does a person become 'saved' " argument is silly. "What was the EXACT moment you were saved" Who cares?
the salvation plan was this..... that you hear the gospel.. the good news about Jesus and his sacrifice for us. You are "pricked in your heart", and believe in him, and you accept the gift of salvation (it's free, you know?) and accept Jesus as your savior, and you, in obedience, are baptized... immersed in water, which symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of our Savior.
You are resurrected from the death of your old life, and you come out of the water (are born again) a new creation... a baby, in Christ, and you begin your life as a believer/follower of Jesus.
this is the simple plan God laid out for us.... every step of that plan MEANS something, and every part of it is essential.
At what EXACT point are you saved? IT DOESN'T MATTER..... unless you are determined to find a way to "do it your way" and reject one of those events simply because you don't see the need for it.
That's Pharisaical in the extreme... tithing mint and cumin. Understand the salvation plan, and follow it, without all the parsing and twisting words.... live in obedience to our Lord.
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This takes more than a superficial reading of the passage to obtain the correct meaning. The word translated baptized in the passage is "baptizo" in the Greek. That Greek word means to immerse like a sunken ship. If you immerse someone in water like a sunken ship they will die for lack of air. The Holy Spirit would have used the word bapto if He had intended to teach water baptism.
Three thousand souls heard Peter preach the gospel and heard that Jesus was their promised Messiah. They received the word and believed so at that moment they were converted through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Upon being converted they were added to the church which is the living body of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Three thousand souls heard Peter preach the gospel and heard that Jesus was their promised Messiah. They received the word and believed so at that moment they were converted through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Upon being converted they were added to the church which is the living body of Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The "old Acts 2:38 argument" ??? so now, using scripture to prove your argument is silly?
There are many more scriptures, if you need me to post them again... but I'm sure you've seen them before.
This whole "when does a person become 'saved' " argument is silly. "What was the EXACT moment you were saved" Who cares?
the salvation plan was this..... that you hear the gospel.. the good news about Jesus and his sacrifice for us. You are "pricked in your heart", and believe in him, and you accept the gift of salvation (it's free, you know?) and accept Jesus as your savior, and you, in obedience, are baptized... immersed in water, which symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of our Savior.
You are resurrected from the death of your old life, and you come out of the water (are born again) a new creation... a baby, in Christ, and you begin your life as a believer/follower of Jesus.
this is the simple plan God laid out for us.... every step of that plan MEANS something, and every part of it is essential.
At what EXACT point are you saved? IT DOESN'T MATTER..... unless you are determined to find a way to "do it your way" and reject one of those events simply because you don't see the need for it.
That's Pharisaical in the extreme... tithing mint and cumin. Understand the salvation plan, and follow it, without all the parsing and twisting words.... live in obedience to our Lord.
so now, using scripture to prove your argument is silly? There are many more scriptures, if you need me to post them again... but I'm sure you've seen them before.
This whole "when does a person become 'saved' " argument is silly. "What was the EXACT moment you were saved" Who cares?
the salvation plan was this..... that you hear the gospel.. the good news about Jesus and his sacrifice for us. You are "pricked in your heart", and believe in him, and you accept the gift of salvation (it's free, you know?) and accept Jesus as your savior, and you, in obedience, are baptized... immersed in water, which symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of our Savior.
You are resurrected from the death of your old life, and you come out of the water (are born again) a new creation... a baby, in Christ, and you begin your life as a believer/follower of Jesus.
this is the simple plan God laid out for us.... every step of that plan MEANS something, and every part of it is essential.
At what EXACT point are you saved? IT DOESN'T MATTER..... unless you are determined to find a way to "do it your way" and reject one of those events simply because you don't see the need for it.
That's Pharisaical in the extreme... tithing mint and cumin. Understand the salvation plan, and follow it, without all the parsing and twisting words.... live in obedience to our Lord.
How much arsenic are willing to tolerate in your drinking water?
Let's not add water baptism to the gospel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger