Twinkling of an eye

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Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,152
106
63
#1
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
2,623
293
83
#2
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
Matt 25:46. The last day means the last day.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,278
744
113
#3
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
No there shouldn't be.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,610
14,131
113
#4
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
AMEN.....post trib, pre-wrath ingathering at the 7th trump, last day when the Day of the LORD, Christ and God is initiated...........
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
955
624
93
#5
i havent decide my prophecy view yet. but is it possible that john 14:1-3 is talking about the rapture? it mentions us taken to heaven.

that is one verse you can look at for one scripture that says we are taken to heaven.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
4,278
744
113
#6
i havent decide my prophecy view yet. but is it possible that john 14:1-3 is talking about the rapture? it mentions us taken to heaven.

that is one verse you can look at for one scripture that says we are taken to heaven.
But in John 17 Jesus prays against rapture:

John 17:15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them by d the truth; your word is truth. 18As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,071
1,878
113
#7
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
Yes this is what i have read in scriptures also.. The rapture will happen on the day of the LORD and we will meet Him in the sky as He returns to earth.. And we shall be ruling with Him on earth in our perfected eternal bodies for 1000 years..
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,152
106
63
#8
i havent decide my prophecy view yet. but is it possible that john 14:1-3 is talking about the rapture? it mentions us taken to heaven.

that is one verse you can look at for one scripture that says we are taken to heaven.
Not really.

John 14:1-4 (KJV)
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

That scripture says He will come again. When He comes again it will be to earth. And He is staying here.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,420
954
113
#9
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
Hello Wall,

The word of God does indeed proclaim that when Jesus appears to gather His church, that He will be taking His church back to heaven.

In order to come to a conclusion on any given Biblical topic or the meaning of a prophecy, we need to consider all of the related scriptures. Regarding our being taken to heaven, Jesus said the following:

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.

In the scripture above, Jesus said that in His Father's house were many rooms and that He was going there to prepare a place for His disciples and all believers. First we need to identify where the Father's house is, because Jesus said that He was going there to prepare places for us. Regarding this, we know that the Father's house can only be referring to heaven, because Jesus said that He was going to return there:

"I will remain in the world no longer, " - John 17:11

"“I am coming to you (the Father) now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them." - John 17:13

Since Jesus stated that He was coming to the Father and would remain in the world no longer, then the only conclusion is that He was going back to heaven, which is also supported by the scripture which says that Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father where He makes intercession for all believers. Regarding this, Jesus also said the following in response to Peter's question:

"Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later."

Once again, since we know that Jesus was going back to the Father's house in heaven and the disciples and all believers were to follow later, then our destination in relation to John 14:1-3, would have to be the Father's house to those places that Jesus went to prepare for us, which can only be referring to heaven.

In addition to all of this, Rev.19:6-8 shows the church, His bride as already being in heaven during the time of wrath taking place on the earth:

"Hallelujah!

For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory!

For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.

Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

Then in Rev.19:14, we see the bride/church following the Lord our of heaven riding on white horses and wearing the same fine linen that she will have previously received at the wedding of the Lamb.

"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."

In relation to the above, we have an excerpt from Rev.17:14 referring to Jesus return to the earth to end the age with His church coming with Him:

"They (the beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.

There are many more proofs demonstrating that when the Lord appears to gather the church, that it is to the Father's house in heaven that Jesus will be taking believers back to, but I believe that what I have provided here is sufficient to get the point across.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
955
624
93
#10
Not really.

John 14:1-4 (KJV)
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

That scripture says He will come again. When He comes again it will be to earth. And He is staying here.
dear friend. it says I will come again but receive you unto myself? in Father's house preparing a place. that sounds like heaven not earth?
i say this in love, not to spite or debate.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,689
1,469
113
#11
Doesnt jesus bring heaven to earth, in revelation it descends out of heaven. Descend means comes down.
When Jesus ascended, the angels (the men in white garments) asked everyone why they kept looking up at the sky, they said Jesus will come down the same way he went up. See acts 1:9-11
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,689
1,469
113
#12
Revelation 20:1 tells us an angel comes DOWN from heaven
Revelation 21:2 tells us the new Jerusalem comes DOWN from God out of heaven and we will go meet Him there.

Jacobs ladder showed angels ascending and descending from heaven. The kingdom is going to come down to earth.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,420
954
113
#13
Not really.

John 14:1-4 (KJV)
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
You highlighted one and left out the other important key factors:

* In my Father's house (heaven)

* I go and prepare a place for you (in the father's house).

* I will come again (back to earth)

* To receive you unto my self that where I am (the Father's house), that you may be also be where I am (The Father's house)

You are misinterpreting the scripture and not taking into consideration other related scriptures. In addition, it is obvious that you are just repeating the false teachings that you have adopted.

John 14:1-3 is a promise from the Lord to go and prepare places for all believers in the Father's house, which could only referring to heaven.

1 Thess.4:13-17 and 1 Cor.15:51-53 is a detailed event of when the Lord comes back to get us and take us back to the Father's house, which is in heaven.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
955
624
93
#14
You highlighted one and left out the other important key factors:

* In my Father's house (heaven)

* I go and prepare a place for you (in the father's house).

* I will come again (back to earth)

* To receive you unto my self that where I am (the Father's house), that you may be also be where I am (The Father's house)
thats how i thought of it too how you said.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
549
349
63
#15
I think we will be "enraptured" at his glorious return...but I don't see a whole lot in regards to being teleported to the 3rd heaven.

It "seems" that pre-wrath there appears a multitude in 7:9...before that (read CH 6) it looks like those that are martyred. Could it both be the same thing? Not sure, it doesn't make sense to have the distinction. AFTER that, the seven thunders speak and the mystery of God is finished. Enter the two witnesses...the passage following that is important to take a look at.


As to house of God...I definitely understood it that way most of my life. Then the Bethel section in Genesis got me to thinking...

If our bodies are a tabernacle (house) and our bodies are also a temple...could it stand to reason that it is a little vague. I'm sure it will all make sense eventually but having a new body designed by the Lord I would consider a "room" of his house prepared for me.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,296
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#16
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.
Amen and Amen.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,181
2,916
113
#17
I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory.
There is no "rapture theory". It is solid Bible doctrine. Believe it or disbelieve it.
we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom...
Which tells us that you know little or nothing about the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture. Please read and study John 14:1-3, that the Rapture means that all the saints will go to Heaven "in the twinkling of an eye".
... the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth.
Redeemed and restored Israel and the saved nations will be on earth during the Millennium. The eternal home of the Church is in the New Jerusalem, which is in Heaven, and will remain a heavenly body,
The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period.
Which tells us that you know nothing about either the Day of the Lord, or the Day of Christ, or the Tribulation, or the Great Tribulation.
When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.
You simply did not look hard enough. So let's make it plain from Scripture that the Rapture is for taking all the saints to Heaven.

JOHN 14:1-3 (SPOKEN BEFORE THE CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST)

Let not your heart be troubled: [DON'T MENTION THE TRIBULATION]

...ye believe in God, believe also in me. [JESUS IS GOD AND KNOWS ALL THINGS]

In my Father's house... [GOD THE FATHER IS IN HEAVEN ON HIS THRONE]

...are many mansions: [THE NEW JERUSALEM IS A HEAVENLY CITY WITH MANSIONS]

...if it were not so, I would have told you. [JESUS NEVER LIES, ALWAYS SPEAKS TRUTH]

...I go to prepare a place for you. [CHRIST IS IN HEAVEN PREPARING A PLACE FOR US]

And if I go and prepare a place for you [THERE IS DIVINE LOGIC IN THE RAPTURE]

I will come again... [THIS IS THE CHRISTIAN'S BLESSED HOPE. CHRIST WILL COME AS PROMISED]

...and receive you unto myself... [CHRIST IS THE DIVINE BRIDEGROOM WHO COMES TO RECEIVE HIS BRIDE THE CHURCH]

...that where I am... [WHERE IS CHRIST? SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER IN HEAVEN]

...there ye may be also...[WILL ALL CHRISTIANS BE IN HEAVEN? ABSOLUTELY. GUARANTEED]

In light of this every Christian has an OBLIGATION to study the Bible before spouting off.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,193
5,961
113
#18
Jesus said that He was going to return there:

"I will remain in the world no longer, " - John 17:11
we were just looking at this verse earlier today. that's the NIV you quoted -- where they made an interpretive change in translation, presumably to try to make sense out of what He says - because the Greek, and most other English translations, looks like its clearly "I am no longer in the world" -- present tense, not future. i.e. at the time He says this He is literally saying He is no longer in the world.

sort of a side-track, sorry. just interesting because literally about the same time of day as you posted, two hours before i read this, my wife and i were talking about exactly this verse and whether NIV is correct or not. it came up while we were listening to a teaching series on Joel, which, obviously, must cover Revelation 2-3.

which.. so this post isn't completely off topic -- church of Philadelphia:

He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says this:
I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie — I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you. Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
(Revelation 3:7-10)

they are saved - kept from - the trial of the earth, the hour of testing ((Jacob's trouble?)) because they have kept His word, not denying His name
they go through an open door. to where?


After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here .."
(Revelation 4:1)
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
955
624
93
#19
Redeemed and restored Israel and the saved nations will be on earth during the Millennium. The eternal home of the Church is in the New Jerusalem, which is in Heaven, and will remain a heavenly body,
why would God separate His people like that? one people one shepherd.

so the Church doesnt even come down with Jesus to the millennium? is that what you are saying did i understand it? just doesnt make sense if Jesus returns with His saints.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
41,610
14,131
113
#20
Jesus is coming from HEAVEN and BRINGING the dead SAINTS in Christ WITH HIM....WE MEET in the AIR...not heaven!