Two things God wants for you.

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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
810
326
63
#1
God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
9,778
2,006
113
#2
good post for thinking about our STEPS to Salvation -

ACTS 2:38.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and you shall receive the gift of The Holy Ghost.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,267
418
83
#3
God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus, but some people want to cut out the middle man.

When we repent we identify with Christ's death which the sins of the world were placed on Him, and He died and laid down those sins.

Can we dismiss repentance.

When we receive the Spirit we identify with the risen Christ.

Can we dismiss receiving the Spirit.

So how can we dismiss water baptism when it identifies us with Jesus' burial.

The Bible says when we are baptized we are baptized in to Jesus' death, and identifies us with the man Christ Jesus, which it cannot be referring to the Holy Spirit in this case for that is His resurrection.

It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, not the death, and resurrection of Jesus, so we cannot cut out water baptism, or say it is not necessary when it is part of the Gospel of Christ.

The man Christ Jesus is a human that obtained eternal life so we have to identify with Him by the Gospel.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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biblehub.com
#4
Hebrews 10:14-18
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,531
407
83
#5
God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.
It was my understanding that Jesus paid for the sins of those that his Father gave him on the cross and God said that they were holy and without blame.
 
Sep 6, 2014
5,592
2,977
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biblehub.com
#6
1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,487
1,575
113
63
#7
The man Christ Jesus is a human that obtained eternal life so we have to identify with Him by the Gospel.
Hi Matt, all true Christians are "humans" who "obtained eternal life", and that from the moment that they first believed .. e.g. John 5:24.

So what is it that makes Jesus special then :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut

John 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
810
326
63
#8
Thank-you Jesus. I'd purposely left off the scriptures that supported the statements I'd made. Do you know how refreshing it is to see that the first few postings were of some of those very scriptures?

Lately I'd visited a church that I might say "makes a good production, but doesn't convey much truth". Later, someone asked me about the service and I told them that they likely would find NOTHING disagreeable in what was spoken.
The problem in that church isn't what is spoken... it's what they leave out.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
810
326
63
#9
It was my understanding that Jesus paid for the sins of those that his Father gave him on the cross and God said that they were holy and without blame.
Hi ForrestGreenCook,

I THINK I understand what your viewpoint might be but let me ask this question to clarify:

Who established baptism for remission of sins? (God or man?)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,552
4,040
113
#10
1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it). He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.
So are we going back through the false teaching that water washes away sins?

You need to learn and sing this hymn and believe it.


What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon this I see--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
For my cleansing this my plea--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

Nothing can my sin erase
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
Naught of works, 'tis all of grace--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

This is all my hope and peace--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
This is all my righteousness--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
3,097
567
113
#11
God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.
The most interesting realization I had about water baptism recently was that the Law of Moses in the OT had no concept of it, i.e. it was not required until John the Baptist arrived at the scene as a forerunner to the coming Messiah and King of the Jews.

If you regard water baptism as required for the removal of sins, why was it not required before John the Baptist? What do those in the OT do regarding their sins if there was no water baptism?
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
810
326
63
#12
So are we going back through the false teaching that water washes away sins?

"not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God" ... Which means it's not the water that is doing the work. It is the submission (in faith) to what God has ordained.

Just like in the old testament it was never the blood of bulls and goats that was doing the work. It was the faith and willing submission to God that connected them to what those actions were about.

Also, it wasn't the physical removal of a piece of flesh (circumcision) that suddently made them worthy... It was submission to that God-established act (by faith) that brought them into the covenant.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
810
326
63
#13
I guess I would further say that it doesn't matter if we don't understand why he chose this thing John the baptist was doing. It just mattered if the people submitted to it. (Similar to how Peter didn't need to understand why Jesus wanted to wash his feet, but it WAS necessary that Peter submit to that washing.)

Those that were able to heed the move of God (and even some who weren't) submitted to this thing (John's baptism of repentance and for remission of sins) that God sent. And they were able to hear even more of what God was sending and doing. Meanwhile, those that rejected baptism also rejected the further move of God. As it is written:

Luke 7:29-30 KJV
And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. [30] But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
810
326
63
#14
The most interesting realization I had about water baptism recently was that the Law of Moses in the OT had no concept of it, i.e. it was not required until John the Baptist arrived at the scene as a forerunner to the coming Messiah and King of the Jews.

If you regard water baptism as required for the removal of sins, why was it not required before John the Baptist? What do those in the OT do regarding their sins if there was no water baptism?
Guojing,
Fair questions. :)

There's a lot I don't understand about the Old Testament. However, I do know that John was sent ahead to set up JESUS's WAY ahead of when Jesus would be using it:

Matthew 11:10 KJV
For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

I also know that if you happened to be in an area where you'd heard about the baptism John was preaching, you'd want/need to submit to it. And baptism was definitely part of the commandments Jesus put to his 11 disciples in all 4 gospels. Even telling them that whose-soever sins they remit (remission means washing away) those sins would indeed be remitted...but whose-soever sins they did NOT remit (wash away through baptism)...those peoples sins would remain on them...[REGARDLESS what else those people believed or did]. That's why he said in another place "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be damned".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,487
1,575
113
63
#15
...in the old testament it was never the blood of bulls and goats that was doing the work. It was the faith and willing submission to God that connected them to what those actions were about.
Hi Kelby, the Bible makes it clear that no OT saint was ever saved by the sacrificed blood of bulls and goats (as you just said). Since we know that's true, what is it then that atones for their sins and satisfies the wrath of the Father against them (because another thing that the Bible makes clear is that, "without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness" .. Hebrews 9:22; 10:4?

Thanks!

~Deut
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,366
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#16
God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.
Could you clarify what you mean by (washing away)I wasn’t sure why (washing away) was put In parenthesis.Some say that man should physically wash as a sign to the world and good conscience to GOD that he has changed some say that man HAS to physically wash/baptize before he can have his sins forgiven?🙂
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
3,097
567
113
#17
Guojing,
Fair questions. :)

There's a lot I don't understand about the Old Testament. However, I do know that John was sent ahead to set up JESUS's WAY ahead of when Jesus would be using it:

Matthew 11:10 KJV
For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

I also know that if you happened to be in an area where you'd heard about the baptism John was preaching, you'd want/need to submit to it. And baptism was definitely part of the commandments Jesus put to his 11 disciples in all 4 gospels. Even telling them that whose-soever sins they remit (remission means washing away) those sins would indeed be remitted...but whose-soever sins they did NOT remit (wash away through baptism)...those peoples sins would remain on them...[REGARDLESS what else those people believed or did]. That's why he said in another place "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be damned".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
There is a significant group of Christians who either believe in:
  1. the necessity of water baptism to get saved, or
  2. the necessity immediately after you are saved, otherwise you may not be saved since you are disobeying a direct commandment from the risen Lord, which to me amounts to pretty much the same as the first belief.
Verses like Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 feature heavily in both beliefs.

The dispensationalist view towards water baptism is clear: Jesus was on Earth to fulfill the promise of a kingdom to the Jews, preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:17).

Under that Kingdom, all Jews are supposed to accept Jesus as their King, and then be priests that will spread the message of the King to every nation.

This was prophesied in many OT prophets, some examples would be

Zechariah 8 explains

3 “Thus says the Lord: ‘I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.’

Later on, in the chapter in Zechariah 8:20-23 New Living Translation (NLT)

20 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: People from nations and cities around the world will travel to Jerusalem. 21 The people of one city will say to the people of another, ‘Come with us to Jerusalem to ask the Lord to bless us. Let’s worship the Lord of Heaven’s Armies. I’m determined to go.’ 22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to seek the Lord of Heaven’s Armies and to ask for his blessing. 23 “This is what the Lord of Heaven’s Armies says: In those days ten men from different nations and languages of the world will clutch at the sleeve of one Jew. And they will say, ‘Please let us walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”

A similar prophecy was given in Micah Chapter 4 (NLT)
In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.
2 People from many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of Jacob’s God. There he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For the Lord’s teaching will go out from Zion; his word will go out from Jerusalem.

Finally, the same prophecy was given in the book of Isaiah chapter 2:2

In the last days, the mountain of the Lord’s house will be the highest of all—the most important place on earth. It will be raised above the other hills, and people from all over the world will stream there to worship.

So, based on these 3 accounts, the timeline was supposed to be Jews are to be saved first, once they accept Jesus as the Messiah, then the Kingdom will be established in Jerusalem and the Jews will then be priests spreading that blessings to all the Gentiles.

So in order for Jews to fulfill the role of priests, all of them must be water baptized. This was not a requirement before John and Jesus came on Earth, but because both of them came in preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, water baptism became required as part of the salvation process.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,531
407
83
#18
Hi ForrestGreenCook,

I THINK I understand what your viewpoint might be but let me ask this question to clarify:

Who established baptism for remission of sins? (God or man?)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Matt 21:23 And when Jesus was come into the temple, the chief priests and elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave you this authority? And we know that it was by God's authority. We conclude that the baptism for remission of sins was by the same authority when God questioned them back in verse 24-28.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,531
407
83
#19
Guojing,
Fair questions. :)

There's a lot I don't understand about the Old Testament. However, I do know that John was sent ahead to set up JESUS's WAY ahead of when Jesus would be using it:

Matthew 11:10 KJV
For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

I also know that if you happened to be in an area where you'd heard about the baptism John was preaching, you'd want/need to submit to it. And baptism was definitely part of the commandments Jesus put to his 11 disciples in all 4 gospels. Even telling them that whose-soever sins they remit (remission means washing away) those sins would indeed be remitted...but whose-soever sins they did NOT remit (wash away through baptism)...those peoples sins would remain on them...[REGARDLESS what else those people believed or did]. That's why he said in another place "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be damned".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Those that Jesus died for, their sins were washed as white as snow by Jesus's death on the cross. Baptism is a commandment he tells us to do to signify that we understand his death, burial and resurrection, the same commandment he gave us to take the sacraments and wash each others feet in helping us to remember him. There is a deliverance in being baptized but it is not eternal.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,914
8,388
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65
Florida
#20
The most interesting realization I had about water baptism recently was that the Law of Moses in the OT had no concept of it, i.e. it was not required until John the Baptist arrived at the scene as a forerunner to the coming Messiah and King of the Jews.

If you regard water baptism as required for the removal of sins, why was it not required before John the Baptist? What do those in the OT do regarding their sins if there was no water baptism?
Animals were slaughtered and the blood was sprinkled on the altar by the Levite priests for the remission of sin. This was a type of the sacrifice of Jesus shedding His blood on the cross. John the Baptist using water for baptism was a type of being baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire as the beginning of the life-long repentance process.